The ACC is too snooty to ever invite West Virginia. They would try for Syracuse that was who Miami wanted instead of VTech. Syracuse fits more into their academics.

I agree that they would go for Cuse but I do not think BC is coming back.

The title of this article is some what misleading. The UCONN coach doesn’t want a bigger Big East. He wants what the rest of the coaches and ADs at the football playing member schools of the Big East want. Not to have to schedule 5 OOC games every season. Conferences like the MAC and Sun Belt have learned real quickly that they can pit the BCS conferences against each other and get the big bucks for their teams to show up. If they sign a contract this year, they announce what the got, and before next season, they break the old contract and sign another one with a bigger pay-out. It’s a matter of supply and demand. The number of schools willing to schedule one and done contracts is shrinking while the schools looking to schedule their way to bowl games is increasing. The conference caught in the middle is the Big East.
To understand why this is allowed to continue one has to look no further than the Big East’s Conference Headquarters in Providence, Rhode Island. The Big East was founded in 1979 and has had two commissioners, both with Providence ties and neither anxious to do anything upset the basketball-only’s cash cow.
Almost from the founding of the Big East conference every decision made by the leaders of the conference have been detrimental to football. In 1982 Penn State, a recognized national power in football at that time, petitioned for membership in the Big East and was rejected. In 1999, Miami sent “letters of concern” to the league office voicing their concern in the direction Big East football was taking. The letters were largely ignored.
In almost every instance the leaders of the Big East conference have failed to act proactively in regard to football. It could be argued that the very formation of Big East football itself was the result of the league offices reaction to the SEC expanding to 12 teams in 1991. The next reactionary measure by Big East leadership occurred when the league was forced to add members after being raided by an ill prepared ACC. (When dealing with football management ineptitude, the ACC is second only to the Big East, but that’s another matter all together.)
The bottom line is the only time the Big East does anything to bolster football is in reaction to something that affects the conference and its basketball. Even when members were chosen to replace the departing VT and Miami, traditional basketball schools Louisville and Cincinnati were invited first.
Still today whenever expansion is mentioned our commissioner, and being a fan of a Big East football playing school I use the term “our” loosely, Tranghese conveniently drops the name Notre Dame for league membership. He does this knowing good and well that the Irish have no intention of ever joining the Big East as if the South Bend school is by some means the end all in college football expansion candidates. Thusly he deflects any mention of expansion and moves along his merry basketball way.I have to believe that the days of Big East football as we know it today are numbered. The divisions between the two factions in the league are deep and are growing deeper every year. Just last season, one of the Big East’s tradition basketball powers, Syracuse, was left out of the NCAA tournament after winning 20 games. The Orange Coach Jim Boeheim voiced his concern about the size of the Big East. In October at the Big East basketball media days Tranghese himself said “he is most concerned that his conference will not receive a possibly record number of bids because of the Big East is so big.” Again, a voiced concern about conference size in regard to basketball. One would have to believe that if this comes to pass that more basketball coaches than one will be complaining about the size of the Big East. Something else to consider about the two factions of the Big East are the missions and traditions of each group. All of the 8 non football playing Big East members are affiliated with the Catholic Church. These 8 institutions have a vastly different mission than their 8 football playing state funded, with the exception of Syracuse, counter-parts.
I believe that it’s appropriate that we have this type of discussion on President’s Day. Lincoln once said that “a house divided could not stand”. Well our house, with that big ugly CUSA knock-off logo on the front that says “Big East”, can’t stand much longer.
Tranghese may be forthright when he mentions that there haven’t been expansion discussions, chances are they haven’t. As history has shown the Big East does nothing proactively when it comes to dealing with football issues.
Don’t believe for a minute that the football playing schools are just sitting back and letting Tranghese take them down the crooked path. Being a Louisville fan I know what kind of leader Tom Jurich is. I’ve saw him take the lead here in Louisville the last 10 years. If there are any plans for an alternative football situation for the football playing members of today’s Big East then he is in the middle of them.
In the past I would have believed that expansion was inevitable but after looking at the history of how Mike Tranghese operates, and the concerns beginning to build about the size of our conference, I have come to the conclusion that a split inevitable. There was a 2010 deadline that everyone assumed with the signing of the last ESPN contract that everyone was continent just to keep things status quo. I question whether that contract will ever be honored to completion. The Big East office went to great lengths to point out that the Big East has NEVER had such a high profile, lucrative football agreement. Perhaps this was done in an effort to pacify football playing members. The football playing members, on the other hand, with their basketball programs, have helped drive up the price of their basketball deals before bolting.
Again expansion no…split absolutely. I would look for two teams, one with basketball tradition and one with football tradition to be added to the league in a model much like the PAC-10. If I had to guess I would say Memphis and ECU would fill those slots. As fans of the Big East one only has to watch and see how many out of conference football and basketball games are scheduled between these two programs and the football playing programs of the Big East.
Only time will tell if this speculation comes to pass. I wouldn’t, however, look for the present football playing members of the Big East to sit back and wait for anything to happen. Our BCS bid is secured and our programs our strong. It’s time for the football schools to form their own football first league.
CJ

CatsClaw Wrote:The fact that they're complaining at all is a problem. And, forget the unbalanced schedule for a moment, people have complained about the Big East having to fill FIVE OOC games and it has been a nightmare to do that. That alone justifies it. Blowing it off as Rodriguez and Edsall whining when they get an unbalanced schedule is missing the point. The complaints about having to fill 5 OOC games have been going on for years now. And you know that coaches secretly hate the unbalanced conference schedule, but probably haven't said anything publicly. For example, I know that Big Ten coaches have said that they hate the Big Ten's unbalanced schedule.

That's the catalyst of it all...as the Big East (unlike all the other BCS Conferences) have to schedule FIVE non-conf games every year.

One of the downfalls is that the Big East only plays 7 conf games...while all the other conferences play 8 or like the Pac-10...NINE conf games per year...and almost all of those are on TV.

Many non-conf games are not on national tv...and the loss of one (or even 2 possible) extra conf games that WOULD be on national (or at least regional) tv is a big loss to some Big East teams.

Some B.E. teams have been able to sign some good either national or regional non-conf games...but most could be done if the B.E. teams had only 4 non-conf games to worry about each year, not 5.

pac-10 was the first conference to move to 9 conf games per year...as that way it assures each team to be on national/regional tv 9 times per year...and probably another 1-2 times with some attractive non-conf games.

Ask any AD...scheduling 3 non-conf games was never easy.

Scheduling 4 is even more difficult.

Scheduling 5 non-conf games per year?

Good luck.

Wilkie01 Wrote:I agree that they would go for Cuse but I do not think BC is coming back.

bingo... right on all counts...

bottom line is though ... that the ACC isn't going after anyone so its moot.. The better question would be... If the Big 10 was to move who would they go after?? I think its cuse over rutgers... but the other way round is quite possible.

The Big East football schools need to form a ten team all-sports conference. I sat add two of the three below:

Memphis
East Carolina
Central Florida

Add all three, if we are raided by the Big 10.

I think the only way the Big 10 goes to 12 teams is by adding Notre Dame and Missouri, dropping Northwestern.

I think the ACC's likes and dislikes are irrelevant over the long term. The ACC is down now. I realize these things are cyclic. But the networks won't care about that in negotiations. The ACC has a long BCS losing streak going, has trouble filling the stadium for their championship game, and can't even find a home field for the championship game.

The BEast is being seen as upwardly mobile, due in large part to The BEast's 3-game BCS Bowl winning streak. WVU's 38-35 victory over heavily favored SEC Champion, Georgia, in the 2006 Sugar Bowl legitimized The BEast. Louisville covered the 10-point spread in their 24-13 win over ACC Champion, Wake Forest, in the 2007 Orange Bowl, and further proved that The BEast belonged. WVU's domination of Oklahoma in the 2008 Fiesta Bowl was some small consolation to WVU players for missing a chance at the national championship.

But The BEast also has several programs on the rise. Rutgers, UofL, USF, UC, and UConn are all up and coming programs. We all hope Pitt is once again on the rise. I reserve judgement, however. After all, Wanstedt is still coaching. Syracuse is a lost cause I fear. But even the SEC has its dog. All of these factors will come into play in the next round of negotiations.

Villanova should have made the move a long time ago; they were 1-A in the 80's before they dropped the sport.

Cuse ain't going to the ACC if offered. things have changed since the days we all thought the BE was dead and even then Cuse shuffled their feet on leaving. The ACC can no longer offer pie in the sky. They can probably get Memphis.

Mickey T will save the BE again in his exit swan song to retirement in 2010 by bringing back Temple for FB only or he will bring in ECU for FB only to save the BE as is so the BB schools and ND's interests will be protected once again. Temple can leave their other sports teams in the A-10 and ECU could also place their other teams there too if they get the FB only invite until the BE splits after the Mickey T BB protectionist era is completed.

Magician Mick would like to pull the Navy rabbit out of his top hat but they just won't bite. Navy has a rich bowl history having played in the Rose Bowl in 1924, the Sugar Bowl in 1955, the Orange Bowl in 1961, and in the Cotton Bowl in 1958 and 1964. In recent times they have enjoyed bowl visits to the Holiday, Garden State, Liberty, Emerald, Poinsettia, Aloha, Houston, and Meinke bowls. The recent bowl visits are the result of careful national scheduling that allows them to reach their bowl goal annually with a winning season now though. They would be a whipping boy in the BE because of recruiting restrictions so they continue to Mickey at bay. They will only play a couple of BE teams a year at most so the BE is left with Temple and ECU for FB only to keep the current status quo.

Something overlooked about Navy is that they no longer have a bowl tie-in for the Pointsettia. The PAC-10 #7 will fill the bowl this year. A winning season no longer guarantees Navy anything as they go into the at-large pool.

I don't get all this ACC talk.. they are set.. they will be adding no one... its a moot point. The ACC will have no problem finding home for champ game... Tampa wanted it bad before the USF stir fry happened.. and Orlando will be more than happy to put it in a renovated Citrus bowl...Charlotte would be quite happy to keep it.. I wouldn't be suprised if Atlanta, and Mia would like in the mix as well...UM and FSU will be back on top very soon...and the whole ACC is a bad league bit will be long gone.. Navy will always be able to find any open bowls available ... they are an attractive pick up.. Navy would be nuts to join the BE ... no acadamy can compete at the BCS level.. the only logical choice for them would be the mac.

You're right, goodknightfl. The ACC will have no problem finding a site for their championship game - unless they insist on having it in Florida, and FSU, and/or Miami, are unable to play in it. If they insist on remaining in Florida they may be in for trouble if FSU and Miami don't return to some resemblence their former dominance.

onlinepole Wrote:Why do you need a 9th team. Having only 7 conference games is an advantage. If you schedule one BCS opponent (1 for 1) one FCS opponent(always a home game) and 3 nonBCS opponents (2 out of 3 will be home games); you should always have at least 7 home games a year and sometimes 8. Few other conferences are able to pull that off.

That is the issue right now. Some of the Big East teams are not getting 1 for 1 deals with BCS programs. FCS "buy" game prices are going through the roof. It is fast getting to the point that you will not get 2 for 1 deals with other D1 teams. Most other D1 teams will not even consider 2-1 deals. If they do it will be with the "elite" football programs with 80-100,000 seat stadiums and HUGE paydays.

The largest BE stadium is 60,000+. Many are in the 30-40,000 range. On average I am guessing that the average stadium size of the BE is ~47,000. That is probably 30,000 less folks and sold tickets than the Big 10 or Big 12.(Some of the Pac10, SEC and ACC as well)

With 8 conference games already in the books. You can much more easily add a FCS team if you want. Then if you wanted to go to Notre Dame or a neutral site game, you could. Then the last 2 games could be home and home series with another D1 team. OOC Regional rivals??

Best case is the Big East teams tell Notre Dame to take a hike. 1 FCS team a year then you have room for 3 home and home series OOC. Every Big East team ends up with 1) a even conference schedule 2) 6-7 home games every year.

The national perception of the ACC is hurting right now. Probably more so than the Big East's, after the raid. Mostly because Miami and Florida State have been so pitiful the last few years. Right or wrong the ACC rises and falls with the 'Canes and Seminoles.
I don't believe anyone, in the position to do anything about it, thought that the Big East would ever lose it's automatic bid. Just the media jackals who have to have something to write about. If there isn't news they simply make it. Don't be suprised if the media hounds begin to turn on the ACC. In a sense they already have turned on ACC basketball, football could be next. This next season is huge for the ACC. They have to prove they can compete with the other BCS conferences. Do I believe that the ACC will lose it's automatic bid, of course not. What I do know is, unless a couple of teams from the ACC step up this season the way WVU did in '07 and UofL did in '06 then the attacks on ACC football will resemble what happened to the Big East after the raid.
Bottomline is Swafford promised the ACC schools, new and old, that expansion would make the league better. It hasn't panned out that way. Gone is the traditional round-robin basketball season that made the ACC what it was in roundball. The ACC championship game has been less than impressive. In short ACC expansion is a shining example of why the PAC10 and Big10 haven't expanded to 12. It's also another example of why I don't think we'll ever see the Big East go to 12. Perhaps 10 but 12 just doesn't look like the number anymore.
CJ

No conference is going to lose their BCS access. They will always keep over 50% of D1 teams in the BCS.

I think the "ACC perception" that you speak of is mainly coming from this message board and others like it. I am no ACC fan but as long as they have FSU, Miami, Va Tech and Clemson(who puts 80,000 butts in the seats every Saturday) they will always be considered a football power. Keep in mind you also have ncsu, unc-ch, UVA who average just as many folks as the best team in the Big East.

The only thing we have seen is that a neutral site game does not work for the ACC. It still pays MILLIONS and gets pretty decent TV ratings. I am sure they will tweak the design. Maybe home field of the highest ranked team OR neutral site in a more central location like Charlotte once the current contracts expire.

Just a small sampling of the negativity that surrounds ACC expansion. Again I say the Big East would be crazy to do this. Split yes, add a couple of teams, and move on. The 12 team model isn't working for the latest conference to try it. BTW some of these articles were written BEFORE last season so things have actually gotten worse since then.
Again this isn't an attack on the ACC from a Big East fan. It's a Big East fan pointing out that we don't need to follow the ACC down that 12 team path.
CJ


Jacksonville News

Charlotte News

Roanoke News

USA Today

The ACC is down right now but it has nothing to do with going to 12 teams and creating a Championship game. It is down because individual teams are down. Even though the individual teams are down they are still making more money than ever. Attendance is at a all time high on average in the league. No doubt they will look for a formula to enhance their championship game but they were attractive enough to have 4 cities fighting to get the game. As far as I can tell none of those cities have since said "no thank you".

We all know that FSU and Miami will not be down for long. I think Miami got a top 5 recruiting class this year.(at least on paper).

They are also not having to struggle with their Bowl agreements.

Imagine how they will be when they are good again.

Jury’s out on the bowl agreement until the next set of negotiations. While I agree that it won’t take a hit next round, the league can’t afford seasons like the next two to become the rule as opposed to the exception. As for Miami/FSU coming back, we’ve been hearing that for 2-3 years now.

If the ACC has another year of poor attendance in their championship game and bowl games, as has happened the last couple of years, they may have more trouble than you think.