I think I have a solution to all of this. How about every time a UCF fan hijacks a thread and turns the focus onto the bastion of intellectual excellence that is THE University of Central Florida, we go ahead and move those posts to the UCF board on ncaabbs? That way, as time goes by, the message will become loud and clear that this board is for BIG EAST discussion instead of all things Oviedo?

As a start, I will volunteer to become a moderator and will happily undertake this task. After all, USF is without a doubt the single most attacked school on this board. Shouldn't a USF fan be given the ability to put a stop to it? Nobody else does anything about it...

USFFan

cuseroc Wrote:Very eloquent post. I applaud you for expressing yourself in such an eloquent manor, although you seem to be high on yourself.

Regarding your "self selection comment", how many kids do you actually think are sitting around thinking " I know I cant get into UCF, so whats the use of wasting money on an application fee? IMO, while very possible, I dont think there are very many. I do not believe that UCF has such a reputation of rigorous standards in its selection process, nor its academic stature. But I do know that a school like Syracuse does, and I think there are more students questioning whether they can get into a Syracuse than that are questioning whether they could get into UCF.

I understand your perception. But not being in the local market, it's possible you may have a distorted view of what is happening here. Kids know UCF very well and are well aware of what types of grades/scores are necessary. There's a definite pecking order in the state, and UCF is essentially tied for number 2 in terms of top destination for high school students, and man that pisses off FSU fans. Maybe we're not even tied since we do admit a larger pool than FSU but are able to keep comparable metrics.

Anyways, you made a remarkably mature response to my attempts to draw you out. Touche.

Additionally, I'd assert that self selection happens well below the threshold of Harvard like status. If you've got a 1030 SAT and you watch the seniors ahead of you share their admission stories, you may draw your own conclusion. I say that to quash the perception that invoking the argument of self selection means I am conferring Harvard like status upon UCF.

Quote:When you make such a statement, academics come into the picture correct? Why else would a potential student question whether he can get into UCF, a program that was recently tier 4, "so why bother wasting the application fee?" I believe there would be a higher caliber of student overall questioning whether they could get into Syracuse than there are that would be questioning getting into UCF. So academics does indeed come into play here.

That is where I thought your comparison was laughable. There are different types of students that the 2 programs attract.

I don't think students necessarily care so much about tiers. I believe there's top 25 universities, then there's great sports programs, and then there's everybody else. Once you fall down into the everybody else category, they're going to look at you based on their view of your merits and not US News' version of events.

cuseroc Wrote:In terms of admissions statistics it is not that much of a stretch.

Syracuse:

For students admitted for the fall semester of 2007, the average GPA was 3.6 and the middle 50% of SAT scores ranged from 1130-1310.

http://admissions.syr.edu/faq/general.cfm#avegpa

UCF:

Average SAT Critical Reading: 601
Average SAT Math: 616
Average SAT Total: 1217
Average H.S. GPA: 3.73

http://www.iroffice.ucf.edu/character/current.html

I know that you're reporting your middle 50% and we report our average. But you do the math.

How does crow taste?

You tell me since you are the one trying to compare your giant community college academics to Syracuse.
BTW; you have presented a very weak case.
[/quote]

Now now...a SMART person wouldn't necessarily compare a young school's academics (UCF) to an almost 140 yr old Institution like Syracuse...but for the mission of UCF (6th largest Univ in the USA), UCF has some strong academic standards but no where near the prominence of Syracuse's past.

Also...it doesn't help your side when you think a good school like UCF is just like a CC...when evidence says otherwise.

cuseroc Wrote:I do not believe that UCF has such a reputation of rigorous standards in its selection process, nor its academic stature. But I do know that a school like Syracuse does, and I think there are more students questioning whether they can get into a Syracuse than that are questioning whether they could get into UCF.

There is no harm in "not knowing" but since this is the information age, if one doesn't know, one can easily find the answers they were looking for.

UCF's reputation is not at the level of a proud 139 yr old Institution like Syracuse...HOWEVER, no one can deny the progress of UCF's tremendous growth in attracting some VERY good students.

UCF is ranked in the Top 50 in regards to National Merit Scholars, ranked HIGHER than much older prestigious OLDER Universities like UVA, Georgetown, Univ of Rochester, Univ of Kansas, UCLA, SMU, RPI & Pitt just to name a few. (No way am I saying that UCF is better than any University listed here, but I think this one fact shows the tremendous quality growth of UCF over the past few years).

Again, UCF doesn't have a generation or even centuries of high academic reputation...but for this new generation, the word is obviously getting out about UCF.

KnightLight Wrote:

cuseroc Wrote:In terms of admissions statistics it is not that much of a stretch.

Syracuse:

For students admitted for the fall semester of 2007, the average GPA was 3.6 and the middle 50% of SAT scores ranged from 1130-1310.

http://admissions.syr.edu/faq/general.cfm#avegpa

UCF:

Average SAT Critical Reading: 601
Average SAT Math: 616
Average SAT Total: 1217
Average H.S. GPA: 3.73

http://www.iroffice.ucf.edu/character/current.html

I know that you're reporting your middle 50% and we report our average. But you do the math.

How does crow taste?

You tell me since you are the one trying to compare your giant community college academics to Syracuse.
BTW; you have presented a very weak case.

Now now...a SMART person wouldn't necessarily compare a young school's academics (UCF) to an almost 140 yr old Institution like Syracuse...but for the mission of UCF (6th largest Univ in the USA), UCF has some strong academic standards but no where near the prominence of Syracuse's past.

Also...it doesn't help your side when you think a good school like UCF is just like a CC...when evidence says otherwise.
[/quote]

I wasnt the one that brought up Syracuse, nor was I the one who compared anything bteween Syracuse and UCF. The "giant community college" comment was my attempt at sarcasm. I dont really view UCF as a giant community college but, It is not on the same page as Syracuse, academicaly, and that is why I said that.

LOL.
This thread has morphed into the academic greatness of UCF. Time to move it out of this board.
By the way they have awhole thread on the CUSA board where the same UCF fans are comparing themselves to Rice, Tulane and SMU.

KnightLight Wrote:UCF's reputation is not at the level of a proud 139 yr old Institution like Syracuse...HOWEVER, no one can deny the progress of UCF's tremendous growth in attracting some VERY good students.

UCF is ranked in the Top 50 in regards to National Merit Scholars, ranked HIGHER than much older prestigious OLDER Universities like UVA, Georgetown, Univ of Rochester, Univ of Kansas, UCLA, SMU, RPI & Pitt just to name a few. (No way am I saying that UCF is better than any University listed here, but I think this one fact shows the tremendous quality growth of UCF over the past few years).

Again, UCF doesn't have a generation or even centuries of high academic reputation...but for this new generation, the word is obviously getting out about UCF.

For the most part I have remained silent on this portion of this thread, but I am sure you are aware that there are National Merit Scholarships and there are National Merit Scholarships.

There are basically three different types of these scholarships and the best of the three scholarships tend to be the College-sponsored National Merit Scholarships - since they usually are renewable from college monies. And no, this is no way meant to infer that the college sponsored scholars are better than those who receive either the straight scholarship or a corporate sponsored scholarship.

However, the last two categories tend to be one-time, non-renewable awards. Such awards will always favor the winner choosing public institutions over privates due to the differing costs of education involved projected over four years.

So comparing the number of National Merit Scholars UCF has with mostly private institutions isn't a sound beginning premise in my opinion.

Cheers,
Neil

EDIT: On second thought, it's just easier to say that "UCF is no Syracuse" and be done with it. :)

BullsFanatic Wrote:EDIT: On second thought, it's just easier to say that "UCF is no Syracuse" and be done with it. :)

Translation: We don't like entering into intellectual matches with UCFers because we always lose.

omnicarrier Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:UCF's reputation is not at the level of a proud 139 yr old Institution like Syracuse...HOWEVER, no one can deny the progress of UCF's tremendous growth in attracting some VERY good students.

UCF is ranked in the Top 50 in regards to National Merit Scholars, ranked HIGHER than much older prestigious OLDER Universities like UVA, Georgetown, Univ of Rochester, Univ of Kansas, UCLA, SMU, RPI & Pitt just to name a few. (No way am I saying that UCF is better than any University listed here, but I think this one fact shows the tremendous quality growth of UCF over the past few years).

Again, UCF doesn't have a generation or even centuries of high academic reputation...but for this new generation, the word is obviously getting out about UCF.

For the most part I have remained silent on this portion of this thread, but I am sure you are aware that there are National Merit Scholarships and there are National Merit Scholarships.

There are basically three different types of these scholarships and the best of the three scholarships tend to be the College-sponsored National Merit Scholarships - since they usually are renewable from college monies. And no, this is no way meant to infer that the college sponsored scholars are better than those who receive either the straight scholarship or a corporate sponsored scholarship.

However, the last two categories tend to be one-time, non-renewable awards. Such awards will always favor the winner choosing public institutions over privates due to the differing costs of education involved projected over four years.

So comparing the number of National Merit Scholars UCF has with mostly private institutions isn't a sound beginning premise in my opinion.

Cheers,
Neil

Neil...everyone is also aware how other schools promote NMS Semi-finalist, NMS Finalist, etc...

The list I used comes from the National Merit Scholarship Corporation.

Its a very strong and impressive list overall:

2007 FRESHMAN National Merit Scholars

University.......2007 NMS
1. Harvard U. 285
2. U. of Texas at Austin 283
3. Northwestern U. 249
4. U. of Southern California 231
5. Washington U. in St. Louis 204
6. U. of Chicago 196
7. Yale U. 183
8. Princeton U. 179
9. U. of Oklahoma 175
10. Texas A&M U. at College Station 173
11. Vanderbilt U. 172
12. U. of Florida 168
13. U. of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 166
14. Stanford U. 164
15. New York U. 159
15. Rice U. 159
17. Arizona State U. 150
18. Massachusetts Institute of Technology 138
19. Ohio State U. 118
20. U. of Pennsylvania 115
21. Georgia Institute of Technology 100
22. U. of Minnesota-Twin Cities 96
23. Brigham Young U. 95
24. Duke U. 90
25. Purdue U. 87
26. Baylor U. 84
26. U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 84
28. Carleton College 83
29. Brown U. 80
30. U. of Alabama at Tuscaloosa 73
31. U. of Arizona 70
32. Harvey Mudd College 68
32. U. of Tulsa 68
34. U. of Nebraska at Lincoln 66
35. Columbia U. 62
35. U. of Michigan at Ann Arbor 62
37. Emory U. 60
37. U. of California at Berkeley 60
39. Tufts U. 59
40. Indiana U. at Bloomington 57
41. Oberlin College 53
42. Dartmouth College 51
42. U. of Maryland at College Park 51
44. Clemson U. 50
45. Cornell U. 47
46. U. of Notre Dame 46
47. U. of Georgia 45
48. Boston U. 44
49. St. Olaf College 43
50. U. of Central Florida 42
51. U. of Washington 41
52. Georgetown U. 40
52. Iowa State U. 40
54. Case Western Reserve U. 39
54. Macalester College 39
56. Michigan State U. 38
56. U. of Virginia 38
58. Louisiana State U. at Baton Rouge 37
58. U. of Arkansas at Fayetteville 37
60. California Institute of Technology 36
60. U. of South Carolina at Columbia 36
62. U. of Kansas 35
63. Grinnell College 34
64. U. of Rochester 32
65. Carnegie Mellon U. 31
66. Brandeis U. 30 21 33
66. U. of Texas at Dallas 30
68. Bowdoin College 29
68. U. of Kentucky 29
68. U. of Wisconsin at Madison 29
68. West Virginia U. 29
68. Wheaton College (Ill.) 29
73. Auburn U. 28
73. U. of California at Los Angeles 28
75. Furman U. 27
75. U. of Cincinnati 27
77. Oklahoma State U. 26
77. Rutgers U. at New Brunswick 26
77. Southern Methodist U. 26
77. U. of Miami 26
81. Fordham U. 25
81. Mississippi State U. 25
81. Washington and Lee U. 25
84. Johns Hopkins U. 24
84. Pomona College 24
86. Denison U. 23
86. Tulane U. 23
88. U. of Louisville 22
88. Williams College 22
90. Calvin College 21
90. Kenyon College 21
90. Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 21
90. U. of Iowa 21
90. U. of Mississippi 21
90. U. of Utah 21
96. Swarthmore College 20
96. U. of Missouri at Columbia 20
96. U. of Pittsburgh 20
SOURCE: National Merit Scholarship Corporation

KnightLight Wrote:Neil...everyone is also aware how other schools promote NMS Semi-finalist, NMS Finalist, etc...

The list I used comes from the National Merit Scholarship Corporation.

And again, it isn't a sound basis for establishing that one school is better or equal to another academically.

But even if it were, you would then have to analyze what percentage of the incoming freshman class do these National Merit Scholarship winners comprise?

UCF has 42 winners from how many enrolled freshmen - 5000?

Georgetown has 40 winners from how many enrolled freshmen - 250?

In the first example, the NMS winners do not even represent 1 percent of the total class while in the second that number represents 16 percent of the entire class.

So you are crowing about less than one percent of your admitted and enrolled freshman class?

While recognizing the strides UCF is making in terms of its academic profile and certainly do not condone the comparison of UCF to a large community college made earlier in this thread, the focus on this one point (NSM scholars) as showing how UCF compares favorably to other institutions is simply not coming from a solid foundation.

Let's move on.

Cheers,
Neil

knight_01 Wrote:

BullsFanatic Wrote:EDIT: On second thought, it's just easier to say that "UCF is no Syracuse" and be done with it. :)

Translation: We don't like entering into intellectual matches with UCFers because we always lose.

No REAL TRANSLATION: Is pointless to carry a discussion with UCFers because they live in a dream world.

omnicarrier Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:Neil...everyone is also aware how other schools promote NMS Semi-finalist, NMS Finalist, etc...

The list I used comes from the National Merit Scholarship Corporation.

And again, it isn't a sound basis for establishing that one school is better or equal to another academically.

But even if it were, you would then have to analyze what percentage of the incoming freshman class do these National Merit Scholarship winners comprise?

UCF has 42 winners from how many enrolled freshmen - 5000?

Georgetown has 40 winners from how many enrolled freshmen - 250?

In the first example, the NMS winners do not even represent 1 percent of the total class while in the second that number represents 16 percent of the entire class.

So you are crowing about less than one percent of your admitted and enrolled freshman class?

While recognizing the strides UCF is making in terms of its academic profile and certainly do not condone the comparison of UCF to a large community college made earlier in this thread, the focus on this one point (NSM scholars) as showing how UCF compares favorably to other institutions is simply not coming from a solid foundation.

Let's move on.

Cheers,
Neil

Neil (bold comment), I have never ever suggested that...as I have PRAISED (in this case) Syracuse's stellar academic reputation for a century and a half.

But this list does help open up some eyes to show a school on the rise, like UCF, which obviously doesn't have a centuray and a half (or more in many cases) of stellar academic reputation.

That's all.

UCF is very proud to be on that list...as UCF's Honor College is taking off like hot cakes while enrolling some incredible student candidates.

Here is a hint for some of your UCF buddies.

A school with high educational standings does not need their alumni to go around bragging about SAT scores or National merit scholars on internet boards.
I have yet to see any fans of Rice, Georgetown, Tulane and Syracuse going around internet boards bragging about such things.
The same can be said from schools that have had great athletic success their fans do not go around putting NCAA apperances or conference titles on their signatures.

If you are successful both academically and athletically it will be noted by others, posting these things just makes your fans look pathetic and insecure.

cuban...I only replied to a question (implied statement) from a big east fan who asked how selective ucf could be for such a large school...plus a statement which the poster basically took back involving some community college crack.

Most people normally do not make statements/cracks about things they do not know...especially if said info is so readily available.

That's all.