The true injustice is that no matter how bad, the ACC won't lose it's auto-bid, under any circumstances. There's just too much political power and money involved for that to happen. Ah well...

esayem Wrote:Yea we stole those schools. They didn't have a choice. I am not complaining. Why would I? I am just questioning why you blame the ACC which is blaming schools that didn't want all this to happen. Schools voted against expansion, you know.

In a real sense the ACC did steal those schools, all except Miami. The thinking at the time was that where ever Miami went that's where the BE's money would go. Once the ACC plotted with Miami, the thinking was any school not included would not survive and the BE would not survive.
Once Miami was gone other BE schools felt that had no choice but to be included or die. They had no choice. OR so they thought.

Ironically, we're now learning Miami isn't all that after all. Three years ago, however, it was different. Though I believe Duke and NC first voted against the ACC's expansion, in the end, when the vote actually came, they voted in unison, with all schools showing support for Swofford's plan. With all ACC schools voting to raid the BE.

Swofford and Shalayla came into our house. Stole something. Then had the nerve to try to burn the house down. Didn't even have the common courtesy to say excuse me. The ACC will always be garbage in my book. Apparently, Swofford and Shalayla get no love from the football gods either.

frogman Wrote:

esayem Wrote:Yea we stole those schools. They didn't have a choice. I am not complaining. Why would I? I am just questioning why you blame the ACC which is blaming schools that didn't want all this to happen. Schools voted against expansion, you know.

In a real sense the ACC did steal those schools, all except Miami. The thinking at the time was that where ever Miami went that's where the BE's money would go. Once the ACC plotted with Miami, the thinking was any school not included would not survive and the BE would not survive.
Once Miami was gone other BE schools felt that had no choice but to be included or die. They had no choice. OR so they thought.

Ironically, we're now learning Miami isn't all that after all. Three years ago, however, it was different. Though I believe Duke and NC first voted against the ACC's expansion, in the end, when the vote actually came, they voted in unison, with all schools showing support for Swofford's plan. With all ACC schools voting to raid the BE.

Swofford and Shalayla came into our house. Stole something. Then had the nerve to try to burn the house down. Didn't even have the common courtesy to say excuse me. The ACC will always be garbage in my book. Apparently, Swofford and Shalayla get no love from the football gods either.

That's a very interesting point, frogman. I've always considered it a robbery gone bad, where the robbers, for no real reason, decide to kill those being robbed on top of it. The question always is, 'well why did you have to kill them, you got the loot?' Same here, only it didn't work and there are survivors who can testify against them. Worlds dumbest criminals material there.

I'm also in complete agreement with the notion that they and perhaps some of the others conferences wanted to get larger pieces of the pie with the demise of the remnants of the BE.

VaTech has been trying for the ACC since day one. It was bound to happen.

The irony of fans and coaches in the ACC being constantly forced to defend their league is pretty hilarious :)

They were COUNTING on the BE being destroyed. They were assuming having TWO BCS teams on a regular basis.

How's that workin' out so far?

frogman Wrote:Though I believe Duke and NC first voted against the ACC's expansion, in the end, when the vote actually came, they voted in unison, with all schools showing support for Swofford's plan. With all ACC schools voting to raid the BE.

Just a small point - the only time there was complete unison in the ACC vote with regards to expansion was when BC was invited.

The Big East and the ACC split the series this year 4-4:

Louisville beat NC State
UConn beat Duke
WVU beat Maryland
USF beat UNC

UVA beat Pitt
Maryland beat Rutgers
UVA beat UConn
Wake Forest beat UConn

NC State beat UC, you missed that.

mlb Wrote:NC State beat UC, you missed that.

In football? No they didn't.

Oh, I thought you were talking basketball... I guess I should have read the entire thread.

I thought the conference would be fine, probably because I didn't believe there was a super undercover plot to destroy the Big East football conference.

esayem Wrote:I thought the conference would be fine, probably because I didn't believe there was a super undercover plot to destroy the Big East football conference.

There is no question that one of the ACC's goals in expanding was to harm the BE and eliminate a rival, so that they could become the dominant league in the East. That is just reality, whether you want to believe it or not. It's a competitive business, and to pretend otherwise is foolish.

That wasn't their ONLY goal, and it wasn't their main goal. But it was part of the big picture.

WVU is strong enough to flagship a conference, don't you think they knew that?

They hoped WVU wasn't. The plan was to kill The BEast. It didn't succeed.

esayem Wrote:WVU is strong enough to flagship a conference, don't you think they knew that?

Its easy enough to say that now in 2008, but in 2003, WV was nowhere near the WV that we know today. From 2000 to the time of the raid in 2003, WV had seasons where they won as few as 3 games to the season of the raid where they won 9 games. There was nothing to indicate at that time that WV would be the WV of today, and become the flagship of the BE. So that statement has no merit.

cuseroc Wrote:

esayem Wrote:WVU is strong enough to flagship a conference, don't you think they knew that?

Its easy enough to say that now in 2008, but in 2003, WV was nowhere near the WV that we know today. From 2000 to the time of the raid in 2003, WV had seasons where they won as few as 3 games to the season of the raid where they won 9 games. There was nothing to indicate at that time that WV would be the WV of today, and become the flagship of the BE. So that statement has no merit.

We (UNDER MINTER) beat WVU in 2003, so what does that say?

esayem Wrote:WVU is strong enough to flagship a conference, don't you think they knew that?

Come on, now... you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. You think John Swofford was sitting there, wringing his hands, all worried about how the BE was going to cope?

You think he was saying to himself, "Well, they'll be fine, sure they'll maintain their BCS bid, after all, WVU is good enough to be the flagship of a BCS league." ???

I think we both know the answer to that.

The ACC was on a money grab, and not only did the prospect of harming the BE not trouble them, they were actively trying to do it.

AND THE NCAA APPROVED IT ALL!!!

I am just saying WVU almost won a title in the 80's with no help from Miami or VaTech so I doubt he expected a recession or collapse of a solid athletic program. Also, didn't WVU beat a Miami team that had a strangle hold on the conference for a few years? I believe it was when Butch was coaching the Canes.

And I'm saying we don't care. The BEast knows the rest of the college football world tried to kill us and were unsuccessful. What the rest of the nation thinks is irrelevant.