Eastendtiger Wrote:a question
now you have to accept jesus as saviour before a person can go to heaven correct?Now if thats the case please explain where Moses is ,Daniel,David,Soloman,Samson,Noah and many others from the "old testament?you see they never got to see or know Jesus so how could they accept him?Show from the bible not your own thoughts...you see John the baptist whom jesus considered the greatist man ever born didn't go to heaven<matthew 11:11> and why didn't he? a hint the first and the last..... 2nd adam...remember adam was made perfect the only other human who was perfect was Jesus.God wouldn't take anyone flawed to replace a perfect being in the beginning like adam was.....

Hebrews 4:1-3 -
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter?
2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.
3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

What was it that he believed?
That God would provide a way, somehow, to rectify permanently the broken relationship between God and humans. He wasn't sure how it would be accomplished, but trusted that it would be accomplished.

Jesus points this out in verse 56 of the following passage:

John 8:53-58 -
53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"
54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.
55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
57 "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

As for the exegesis of Matthew 11:11 I believe it to be skewed by your apparent belief that no one before Christ was saved.
As to that belief, holding to it would be hard in the light of this passage:

Matthew 17:1-3 -
1 Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves.
2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light.
3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

Jesus fellowshipped with dead guys who had been denied entry into heaven?

tigertommy Wrote:

missjtiger Wrote:http://www.regenesis.net/christianity-Da...asBorn.htm

That link is bogus info. As soon as I read that BC means before christ I nearly spit up my xmas cheer. lol
Christmas began as a pagan holiday/festival. The early christians wanted something to go along with it so they decided to celebrate Chirst's birthday even though they had no idea when he was born. Kind of like Kwaanza. lol

Hate to burst your bubble Tommy, but...
"The Anno Domini system was devised by the monk Dionysius Exiguus, while in Rome, working on a table to establish future dates for Easter."

Before this time, dates had been established according to which Roman Emperor was in power at the time of the event in question. Since some of these Emperors had been persecutors of Christians, especially Diocletian, this monk desired to establish another way to ascribe dates. He then determined to the best of his knowledge when the birth of Christ was and established and...

"He gave a method to calculate "annos ab incarnatione Domini nostri Jesu Christi" (Latin for years since the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ). He himself stated that the then current year was 525 years since the incarnation of Jesus."

Unfortunately, the monk was off by about 4 years. But since the Bible says this:
Romans 14:5 -
5 "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind."

...it's really not that big of a deal.

As for the "BC" thing:
"Two centuries later in northern England, the Venerable Bede began the process of bringing the AD system Dionysius had invented into general use in Western Europe...Bede also used another Latin term "ante uero incarnationis dominicae tempus" ("the time before the Lord's true incarnation"), equivalent to the English "before Christ", to identify years before the first year of this era."

The use of BCE/CE (before the common era/common era) was originally used among Jewish scholars in the mid-19th century. (Incidentally, they were more opposed to "Anno Domini" than "Before Christ." They didn't deny Christ's existence, they just didn't want to call Him "Domini" or "Lord.")
However, it did not come on to common usage until 1949 when communist China declared itself atheist and began using the Chinese equivalent of BCE/CE.
American usage has been limited to the past 2 or 3 decades in which some scholars are not content to wipe Christianity from the present but wish to remove all references to it from the past as well.

Greysmith Wrote:

Eastendtiger Wrote:a question
now you have to accept jesus as saviour before a person can go to heaven correct?Now if thats the case please explain where Moses is ,Daniel,David,Soloman,Samson,Noah and many others from the "old testament?you see they never got to see or know Jesus so how could they accept him?Show from the bible not your own thoughts...you see John the baptist whom jesus considered the greatist man ever born didn't go to heaven<matthew 11:11> and why didn't he? a hint the first and the last..... 2nd adam...remember adam was made perfect the only other human who was perfect was Jesus.God wouldn't take anyone flawed to replace a perfect being in the beginning like adam was.....

Hebrews 4:1-3 -
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter?
2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.
3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

What was it that he believed?
That God would provide a way, somehow, to rectify permanently the broken relationship between God and humans. He wasn't sure how it would be accomplished, but trusted that it would be accomplished.

Jesus points this out in verse 56 of the following passage:

John 8:53-58 -
53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"
54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.
55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
57 "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

As for the exegesis of Matthew 11:11 I believe it to be skewed by your apparent belief that no one before Christ was saved.
As to that belief, holding to it would be hard in the light of this passage:

Matthew 17:1-3 -
1 Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves.
2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light.
3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

Jesus fellowshipped with dead guys who had been denied entry into heaven?

Those before Jesus were saved, but not in heaven. Christ had not paid the ransom which opened the way for man to enter heaven. What did Peter mean when he quoted Psalm 110 in the book of Acts and said @ Acts 2:34 "For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand"
Or John for that matter when @ John 3:13 according to the Amplified: 13 And yet no one has ever gone up to heaven, but there is One Who has come down from heaven--the Son of Man [Himself], [a]Who is (dwells, has His home) in heaven.

The transfiguration doesn't prove the Moses and Elijah was in heaven let alone alive. Jesus called the experience a vision in Matthew 17:9

9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Many thought Jesus while on earth was Elijah or he was Moses. Jesus did a work similar to both but on a far grander scale.
The disciples later in that same chapter in Matthew 17 in their conversation with Jesus about the vision they saw questioned what it meant. Jesus replied he would suffer the same way Elijah did. The disciples in vs 13 thought Jesus was speaking of John the Baptist.

The point of this vision Peter later recorded at 2 Peter 1:16-18.
16For we were not following cleverly devised stories when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah), but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty (grandeur, authority of sovereign power).

17For when He was invested with honor and glory from God the Father and a voice was borne to Him by the [splendid] Majestic Glory [in the bright cloud that overshadowed Him, saying], This is My beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased and delight,

18We [actually] heard this voice borne out of heaven, for we were together with Him on the holy mountain. (during the tranfiguration)

scorpius Wrote:Blind faith is perhaps humanity's greatest danger.

And we Christians are in danger of what?

Nothing but Salvation!

geosnooker2000 Wrote:

scorpius Wrote:Blind faith is perhaps humanity's greatest danger.

And we Christians are in danger of what?

Lots of things since you are brainwashed.

rolexjames Wrote:

Greysmith Wrote:

Eastendtiger Wrote:a question
now you have to accept jesus as saviour before a person can go to heaven correct?Now if thats the case please explain where Moses is ,Daniel,David,Soloman,Samson,Noah and many others from the "old testament?you see they never got to see or know Jesus so how could they accept him?Show from the bible not your own thoughts...you see John the baptist whom jesus considered the greatist man ever born didn't go to heaven<matthew 11:11> and why didn't he? a hint the first and the last..... 2nd adam...remember adam was made perfect the only other human who was perfect was Jesus.God wouldn't take anyone flawed to replace a perfect being in the beginning like adam was.....

Hebrews 4:1-3 -
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter?
2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.
3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

What was it that he believed?
That God would provide a way, somehow, to rectify permanently the broken relationship between God and humans. He wasn't sure how it would be accomplished, but trusted that it would be accomplished.

Jesus points this out in verse 56 of the following passage:

John 8:53-58 -
53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"
54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.
55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
57 "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

As for the exegesis of Matthew 11:11 I believe it to be skewed by your apparent belief that no one before Christ was saved.
As to that belief, holding to it would be hard in the light of this passage:

Matthew 17:1-3 -
1 Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves.
2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light.
3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

Jesus fellowshipped with dead guys who had been denied entry into heaven?

Those before Jesus were saved, but not in heaven. Christ had not paid the ransom which opened the way for man to enter heaven. What did Peter mean when he quoted Psalm 110 in the book of Acts and said @ Acts 2:34 "For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand"
Or John for that matter when @ John 3:13 according to the Amplified: 13 And yet no one has ever gone up to heaven, but there is One Who has come down from heaven--the Son of Man [Himself], [a]Who is (dwells, has His home) in heaven.

The transfiguration doesn't prove the Moses and Elijah was in heaven let alone alive. Jesus called the experience a vision in Matthew 17:9

9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Many thought Jesus while on earth was Elijah or he was Moses. Jesus did a work similar to both but on a far grander scale.
The disciples later in that same chapter in Matthew 17 in their conversation with Jesus about the vision they saw questioned what it meant. Jesus replied he would suffer the same way Elijah did. The disciples in vs 13 thought Jesus was speaking of John the Baptist.

The point of this vision Peter later recorded at 2 Peter 1:16-18.
16For we were not following cleverly devised stories when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah), but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty (grandeur, authority of sovereign power).

17For when He was invested with honor and glory from God the Father and a voice was borne to Him by the [splendid] Majestic Glory [in the bright cloud that overshadowed Him, saying], This is My beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased and delight,

18We [actually] heard this voice borne out of heaven, for we were together with Him on the holy mountain. (during the tranfiguration)

I believe that you and Eastendtiger are arguing different points.
It appears to me that he is questioning the salvation of Old Testament believers. Where you appear to be assuming their salvation, and delving into the question of actual location of the Old Testament believers once they died, but before Jesus' death.

His contention is along the lines of: "if Jesus is the only way to heaven, then what happened to all of those people in the Old Testament (and even the New Testament, like John the Baptist) who died before Jesus' sacrifice?"

I believe that the Old Testament believers trusted that God would provide a way of salvation for them and their relationship with God was restored accordingly. (As was pointed out in the passages I quoted earlier.)
I took his response as invective, attempting to show an egregious "flaw" in Christian theology. Possibly I misinterpreted his intent.

As to your contention, I agree that the critical point in the matter was when Jesus actually paid our debt. Imagine people who've been kidnapped, they aren't released until the ransom is actually paid.
However, the problem arises in attempting to ascribe temporal hierarchy to an atemporal God ("God did this, then He did that....")
Since Scripture teaches that God exists outside of time, it is impossible to determine when (by our clock) He considered Christ's sacrifice to be effectual.
The traditional position has been that before Christ, saved souls were in a holding tank kind of place called "paradise," others believe they went straight to heaven pointing out that the "paradise" concept didn't appear in Christian theology until the Middle Ages. There are people in both camps whom I highly respect. Personally, I have yet to be compellingly convinced either way on the subject, and therefore for me it is not a theological hill on which to die.

TigerSeth Wrote:

geosnooker2000 Wrote:

scorpius Wrote:Blind faith is perhaps humanity's greatest danger.

And we Christians are in danger of what?

Lots of things since you are brainwashed.

Out of curiosity, on what topics do you believe me to be brainwashed, specifically?

nicely put Grey on a difficult point.

Greysmith Wrote:

rolexjames Wrote:

Greysmith Wrote:

Eastendtiger Wrote:a question
now you have to accept jesus as saviour before a person can go to heaven correct?Now if thats the case please explain where Moses is ,Daniel,David,Soloman,Samson,Noah and many others from the "old testament?you see they never got to see or know Jesus so how could they accept him?Show from the bible not your own thoughts...you see John the baptist whom jesus considered the greatist man ever born didn't go to heaven<matthew 11:11> and why didn't he? a hint the first and the last..... 2nd adam...remember adam was made perfect the only other human who was perfect was Jesus.God wouldn't take anyone flawed to replace a perfect being in the beginning like adam was.....

Hebrews 4:1-3 -
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter?
2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.
3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

What was it that he believed?
That God would provide a way, somehow, to rectify permanently the broken relationship between God and humans. He wasn't sure how it would be accomplished, but trusted that it would be accomplished.

Jesus points this out in verse 56 of the following passage:

John 8:53-58 -
53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"
54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.
55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
57 "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

As for the exegesis of Matthew 11:11 I believe it to be skewed by your apparent belief that no one before Christ was saved.
As to that belief, holding to it would be hard in the light of this passage:

Matthew 17:1-3 -
1 Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves.
2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light.
3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

Jesus fellowshipped with dead guys who had been denied entry into heaven?

Those before Jesus were saved, but not in heaven. Christ had not paid the ransom which opened the way for man to enter heaven. What did Peter mean when he quoted Psalm 110 in the book of Acts and said @ Acts 2:34 "For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand"
Or John for that matter when @ John 3:13 according to the Amplified: 13 And yet no one has ever gone up to heaven, but there is One Who has come down from heaven--the Son of Man [Himself], [a]Who is (dwells, has His home) in heaven.

The transfiguration doesn't prove the Moses and Elijah was in heaven let alone alive. Jesus called the experience a vision in Matthew 17:9

9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Many thought Jesus while on earth was Elijah or he was Moses. Jesus did a work similar to both but on a far grander scale.
The disciples later in that same chapter in Matthew 17 in their conversation with Jesus about the vision they saw questioned what it meant. Jesus replied he would suffer the same way Elijah did. The disciples in vs 13 thought Jesus was speaking of John the Baptist.

The point of this vision Peter later recorded at 2 Peter 1:16-18.
16For we were not following cleverly devised stories when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah), but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty (grandeur, authority of sovereign power).

17For when He was invested with honor and glory from God the Father and a voice was borne to Him by the [splendid] Majestic Glory [in the bright cloud that overshadowed Him, saying], This is My beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased and delight,

18We [actually] heard this voice borne out of heaven, for we were together with Him on the holy mountain. (during the tranfiguration)

I believe that you and Eastendtiger are arguing different points.
It appears to me that he is questioning the salvation of Old Testament believers. Where you appear to be assuming their salvation, and delving into the question of actual location of the Old Testament believers once they died, but before Jesus' death.

His contention is along the lines of: "if Jesus is the only way to heaven, then what happened to all of those people in the Old Testament (and even the New Testament, like John the Baptist) who died before Jesus' sacrifice?"

I believe that the Old Testament believers trusted that God would provide a way of salvation for them and their relationship with God was restored accordingly. (As was pointed out in the passages I quoted earlier.)
I took his response as invective, attempting to show an egregious "flaw" in Christian theology. Possibly I misinterpreted his intent.

As to your contention, I agree that the critical point in the matter was when Jesus actually paid our debt. Imagine people who've been kidnapped, they aren't released until the ransom is actually paid.
However, the problem arises in attempting to ascribe temporal hierarchy to an atemporal God ("God did this, then He did that....")
Since Scripture teaches that God exists outside of time, it is impossible to determine when (by our clock) He considered Christ's sacrifice to be effectual.
The traditional position has been that before Christ, saved souls were in a holding tank kind of place called "paradise," others believe they went straight to heaven pointing out that the "paradise" concept didn't appear in Christian theology until the Middle Ages. There are people in both camps whom I highly respect. Personally, I have yet to be compellingly convinced either way on the subject, and therefore for me it is not a theological hill on which to die.

The specifics of the faith is irrelevant. What matters to reducing or eliminating it's dangers is to recognize that it IS just faith and that there is a possbility of being wrong. If you are strong enough mentally to make this realization, then you have the strongest most powerful form of faith you can have since it presents no danger to anyone.. especially not yourself... and encourages progress.

Just because there were pagan celebration for the sun god on Dec 25th doesn't make Christmas a pagan holiday. Pope Julius I choose the date to make it easier for pagan to convert to Christianality. It is sad that out resident atheist is so afraid that they may have to review their own lifestyle choices. That they cannot allow others to enjoy this season.

The links do have some errors in it. It is false to believe that the Judean winters in Dec would be too cold for shepards to be in the fields. The coldest part of the winter doesn't start till feb. In dec it is still moderate weather with rainy period which cause green grass to grow. So it is very possible that the shepard could be in the fields in Dec.

scorpius Wrote:The specifics of the faith is irrelevant. What matters to reducing or eliminating it's dangers is to recognize that it IS just faith and that there is a possbility of being wrong. If you are strong enough mentally to make this realization, then you have the strongest most powerful form of faith you can have since it presents no danger to anyone.. especially not yourself... and encourages progress.

If you doubt then you have no faith.

tommy sometimes you should just keep your opinions to yourself. you dont always have to put your 2 cents in. if its not for you just learn to move on. i know there were others here that cracked their rude jokes but you always seem to be the first to pipe up. next time just move on to the next topic. show some class i know you have it.

The Old Testament teaches life after death, and that all people went to a place of conscious existence called Sheol. The wicked were there (Psalm 9:17; 31:17; 49:14; Isaiah 5:14), and so were the righteous (Genesis 37:35; Job 14:13; Psalm 6:5; 16:10; 88:3; Isaiah 38:10).

The New Testament equivalent of Sheol is Hell. Prior to Christ’s resurrection, Luke 16:19-31 shows Hell to be divided into two realms: a place of comfort where Lazarus was, and a place of torment where the rich man was. The word hell in verse 23 is not “Gehenna” (place of eternal torment) but “Hades” (place of the dead). Lazarus’s place of comfort is elsewhere called Paradise (Luke 23:43). Between these two districts of Hell is “a great gulf fixed” (Luke 16:26).

Jesus is described as having descended into Hell after His death (Acts 2:27, 31; cf. Ephesians 4:9). At the resurrection of Jesus Christ, it seems that the believers in Hell (i.e., the occupants of Paradise) were moved to another location. Now, Paradise is above rather than below (2 Corinthians 12:2-4).

Today, when a believer dies, he is “present with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:6-9). When an unbeliever dies, he follows the Old Testament unbelievers to Hell. At the final judgment, Hell will be emptied before the Great White Throne, where its occupants will be judged prior to entering the lake of fire (Revelation 20:13-15).

larnhr Wrote:

scorpius Wrote:The specifics of the faith is irrelevant. What matters to reducing or eliminating it's dangers is to recognize that it IS just faith and that there is a possbility of being wrong. If you are strong enough mentally to make this realization, then you have the strongest most powerful form of faith you can have since it presents no danger to anyone.. especially not yourself... and encourages progress.

If you doubt then you have no faith.

Without faith we could walk on the moon, we never would have. Without doubt every step of the way, we could not have made the progress to make it possible. I say again, faith with "doubt" is the most powerful faith of all.

faith without action is meaningless faith, at least imo. action based on irrational faith is madness. action based on a faith seated in the mercy, grace and love of a Creator God...that has the potential to be pretty good action.

scorpius Wrote:The specifics of the faith is irrelevant. What matters to reducing or eliminating it's dangers is to recognize that it IS just faith and that there is a possbility of being wrong. If you are strong enough mentally to make this realization, then you have the strongest most powerful form of faith you can have since it presents no danger to anyone.. especially not yourself... and encourages progress.

Good points Scorps. We may not agree much on the political board but we do on this issue. If faith in Jesus, Allah, Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard or Malcom X gets you through the day and gives you peace that is fantastic. Just don't try and shove it down other people's throats and if someone pokes fun at it don't act as if somebody just did an atomic wedgie on your ass.

When Jesus was born in the flesh is not what is important. Christmas is a day where we Christians recognize the birth of Jesus, upon this earth, God with us, Jehovah Jirah. It is a part of the Advent season.

Without getting into a theological debate about salvation, I'll just say this. Somebody mentioned Hebrews 11 and that is known as the "faith" chapter of the Bible. The book of Hebrews adds a certain perspective to the Old or First Testament.

Even Adam and Eve when they sinned, God provided a "covering" for them. God has provided Himself a sacrifice for you, and for me, because He loves us. It is His love, and it is an everlasting love that draws us to Him. The Gospel was preached unto Abraham. David forsaw Jesus upon the cross.

I could go on, but when a person is saved, or when Jesus was born, is a matter of understanding. Jesus is eternal and he came in the "fulness of time". He is Love and those that know Him as LORD and Savior are being conformed to His image.

I love you all, but I've got to tell you, Jesus loves you more, He died for you.


Happy Birthday Jesus and Merry CHRISTmas everybody! (and thats all I got to say about that)

All I know, is Jesus my Lord and Saviour. Am I perfect ....no---But, my life radically and dramatically changed when I gave my heart and my life to him as a young boy. I try to mature in my walk with him everyday. I am trying to improve my prayer life and become more disciplined in my study of the word. The way we try to live our lives should be the best evidence that we know Christ. Each of us have an impact on each other.........either positive or negative.........I strive to be a positive. Try to be a burden lifter to those around you.
I thank Jesus that he came to this earth so that I may have a relationship with him. If you look at God/ christianity as a religion then you are sadly missing it big time. Its about knowing God through his son who died for our sins.........to save us. And, because of that gift 2000 years ago the world has never been the same.
Now, as a christian is everything in my life perfect----no burdens-----NO! but, dealing with life is far easier and I get a gretter joy out of life by knowing him.

GSN1 Wrote:All I know, is Jesus my Lord and Saviour. Am I perfect ....no---But, my life radically and dramatically changed when I gave my heart and my life to him as a young boy. I try to mature in my walk with him everyday. I am trying to improve my prayer life and become more disciplined in my study of the word. The way we try to live our lives should be the best evidence that we know Christ. Each of us have an impact on each other.........either positive or negative.........I strive to be a positive. Try to be a burden lifter to those around you.
I thank Jesus that he came to this earth so that I may have a relationship with him. If you look at God/ christianity as a religion then you are sadly missing it big time. Its about knowing God through his son who died for our sins.........to save us. And, because of that gift 2000 years ago the world has never been the same.
Now, as a christian is everything in my life perfect----no burdens-----NO! but, dealing with life is far easier and I get a gretter joy out of life by knowing him.

Still don't get it. That is great for you. It isn't for me. Don't say I am missing something. I am not. It does nothing for me. Realize that and then maybe we can all get along.