A conference with exit fees is a conference that admits that it isn't very attractive even to its own members.

The WAC does need exit fees.

Quote: A conference with exit fees is a conference that admits that it isn't very attractive even to its own members.

The WAC does need exit fees.

Uh, exit fees are the norm as far as conference rules/procedures go.

WAC_FAN Wrote:Uh, exit fees are the norm as far as conference rules/procedures go.

Prove it. What are the exit fees for the PAC-10? Big XII? Big Ten? The Mountain West?

I'll answer the last one for you: The MWC has no exit fees. Still, no school has ever left the conference. Unlike the WAC (7 teams in the last 6 years).

eldermars Wrote:Prove it. What are the exit fees for the PAC-10? Big XII? Big Ten? The Mountain West?

I'll answer the last one for you: The MWC has no exit fees. Still, no school has ever left the conference. Unlike the WAC (7 teams in the last 6 years). [/color]

Here is an alternate point of view for you. Without the WAC the MWC would have to fully acknowledge that they were without a doubt the weakest D1A conference in the west. As long as the WAC is around, you can claim you aren't, at least for a while.

ejmpalle Wrote:So all of you are saying that we shouldn't have any loyalty, whatsoever? Our teams shouldn't have exit fees in place to give them incentive to stay?

If this is actually true, Utah St is in big trouble because BYU and Utah would never allow Utah St to be in the same conference with them. And if there is any truth to the fact that the MWC will expand and take a WAC team, it'll eventually happen that some WAC team is taken with Utah St left behind. I think of all teams in the WAC, Utah St stands to lose more from a confernence break-up than any other team.

Where was the Sunbelt loyalty? It was non existant, that's where. Put up or shut up.

Under what circumstances do you think that teams should be able to or want to change conference affiliation? The norm seems to be: Whenever it benifits that institution. That seems to be consistant with what USU, as well as every other team in the WAC has done in the past.

A better question might be: Is there a benifit to changing conferences for some of the teams in the WAC, and if so, What is it (are they) and what can be done to remedy it within the WAC?

eldermars Wrote:

WAC_FAN Wrote:Uh, exit fees are the norm as far as conference rules/procedures go.

Prove it. What are the exit fees for the PAC-10? Big XII? Big Ten? The Mountain West?

I'll answer the last one for you: The MWC has no exit fees. Still, no school has ever left the conference. Unlike the WAC (7 teams in the last 6 years).

That is not to say that no team would leave the MWC (including BYU) given an offer. I'm sure if the Big 12 or PAC 10 came calling it would be a matter of writing the check now and thinking about it later. JMOHO

Pecking Order: Utah State from Sunbelt to WAC. UTEP from WAC to C-USA. TCU from C-USA to MWC. Louisville from C-USA to Big east. Miami from Big East to ACC. PAC-10/Big Ten above MWC, which is above the other non-BCS. Big XII, SEC, and now ACC full at 12 teams. PAC-10 unlikely to expand above 10 schools. Big Ten waiting for Independent Notre Dame.

Thus, the next realignment will be Big east taking from C-USA and/or MWC taking from the WAC/C-USA. The Big east deadline is 2010, when the conference can split football/basketball and still keep their post-season bids. The MWC deadline is 2012, when their TV deal expires. Then C-USA will raid the WAC/MAC, and the WAC will raid the Sunbelt, add I-AA teams, or fall apart completely.

Big Ten or PAC-10 expansion isn't likely to happen anytime soon. In the meanwhile, the WAC and Sunbelt can try to add I-AA schools. Sounds like the SBC is picking up Western Kentucky, while the WAC is at least 2-3 years away.

None of this is very arguable. Not in reality.

eldermars Wrote:MWC taking from the WAC/C-USA.

Are you still pimping that garbage? Nobody from the current 12 CUSA schools is going to the MWC because 11 of them aren't even remotely interested in going west and the one team that would consider going west(UTEP) would do so only if the Pac-10 is the league inviting. So your pecking order is more like the MWC taking from the WAC or Sun Belt. Regardless of what TCU did no other team presently in CUSA has any interest in goating. See, unlike TCU's president our presidents and athletic directors actually have brains. The rest of us have put TCU out of sight and out of mind. Their fan base is small, and will get smaller when Baylor and Texas Tech are through walloping them, and we also love the CUSA tv contracts, bowl tie-ins, tv markets, football & basketball tradition, southwest-southeast regionality, rich recruiting fields(currently CUSA is the top ranked conference in both football and basketball recruiting), budgets, and the overall rich tradition of the 12 schools. So TCU can go to the MWC but none of us are following them there. If you want to pimp schools to the MWC they will have to be from the WAC or Sun Belt because you won't find takers in any other leagues. All schools in CUSA do most of their recruiting in the central and eastern time zones and all of them have the bulk of their fans in the southwest and southeast. The MWC does nothing for any of us that we aren't already getting where we are and will continue to get in the future. Well, that is all. Happy pimping even if you can't pimp CUSA schools.

sdbronco Wrote:Where was the Sunbelt loyalty? It was non existant, that's where. Put up or shut up.

Under what circumstances do you think that teams should be able to or want to change conference affiliation? The norm seems to be: Whenever it benifits that institution. That seems to be consistant with what USU, as well as every other team in the WAC has done in the past.

A better question might be: Is there a benifit to changing conferences for some of the teams in the WAC, and if so, What is it (are they) and what can be done to remedy it within the WAC?

First, SDBronco, you need to chill out. That or go bury your head in a hole somewhere. Second the Sun Belt has nothing to do with the question I'm asking.

ejmpalle Wrote:

sdbronco Wrote:Where was the Sunbelt loyalty? It was non existant, that's where. Put up or shut up.

Under what circumstances do you think that teams should be able to or want to change conference affiliation? The norm seems to be: Whenever it benifits that institution. That seems to be consistant with what USU, as well as every other team in the WAC has done in the past.

A better question might be: Is there a benifit to changing conferences for some of the teams in the WAC, and if so, What is it (are they) and what can be done to remedy it within the WAC?

First, SDBronco, you need to chill out. That or go bury your head in a hole somewhere. Second the Sun Belt has nothing to do with the question I'm asking.

Sure it does (have something to do with the musically chair conferences we find ourselves in). I'm chilled. I was thinking that you are the one that needs to chill since you constantly write about the topic and act as if it will be the end of the world if it doesn't work out like you want it to.

So... the question/statement is still valid:

I'm not trying to flame, but would like to hear your response to a very valid question.

Quote:Under what circumstances do you think that teams should be able to or want to change conference affiliation? The norm seems to be: Whenever it benifits that institution. That seems to be consistant with what USU, as well as every other team in the WAC has done in the past.

A better question might be: Is there a benifit to changing conferences for some of the teams in the WAC, and if so, What is it (are they) and what can be done to remedy it within the WAC?

ejmpalle..I thought sdbronco made a good point..When is it appropriate to change conferences? Are conferences more than just business arrangements? The current WAC has been in place for just over a year. Though there is history between many of the schools it does feel like a marriage of convenience at this point in time; much like your affiliation with the Belt. Hopefully that will change but it is the obligation of the president of any school to keep their options open should options arise.

Nevada isn't going to the MWC either but I don't spend one minute worring about whether Boise or Fresno leave..Posters on a message board are just posters on a message board. Go to your games and cheer for your school..If you have some extra cash, make a donation. That's all any of us can control.

sdbronco Wrote:Sure it does (have something to do with the musically chair conferences we find ourselves in). I'm chilled. I was thinking that you are the one that needs to chill since you constantly write about the topic and act as if it will be the end of the world if it doesn't work out like you want it to.

So... the question/statement is still valid:

I'm not trying to flame, but would like to hear your response to a very valid question.

We all ready know what it's going to take to remedy our shortfalls in this conference, sdbronco. Why restate the obvious?

And, no, Utah St's trip to the sewer, aka the Sun Belt, has nothing to do with the question I'm asking. Utah St has been trying to get into the WAC for about 40 years. Has Boise St been trying to get into the MWC or the WAC for 40 years? The answer to that is obvious. If your school had been seeking an entrance into the MWC for 40 years, I wouldn't blame you for wanting to ditch the WAC. Utah St had no intention of staying in the Sun Belt. Utah St took the life line when the life line was given, but everyone knew they didn't belong in the Sun Belt, given their long history seeking the WAC. In fact, Utah St worked so hard to stay out of the Sun Belt that Utah St opted to try independence on for size. Has Boise St opted this before entering the WAC? Yeah, the obvious, once again. Utah St's envy of the WAC was also clearly known to the Big West. Further, Utah St was the Big West's pride and joy, especially the last 10 years Utah St was in the Big West. Secondly, the Big West had no intention of investing in a Utah school. They prefferred to be a cal bus league ever since it was realized that football in the Big West wasn't reasonable.

Bringing the Sun Belt into this question is quite absurd given all of the above. Now just answer the ____ (fill in the blank) question!!!

Try putting yourselves into the shoes of a Utah St fan that has endured 40 years of UC Riverside, Middle Tennessee St, Cal St Fullerton, Long Beach St, Louisiana Monroe, etc. on for size! Let's see how worked up you get after 40 years of trying to rid yourselves of them when you finally find a conference worth contributing to when there's talk left and right of a break-up, which gives the impression that the future holds worse for USU. I'd love to see how all of you would react after all of the above.

ejmpalle...Nevada has shared a conference with all those schools..I don't look down my nose at any of them. The Pack started playing football over 100 years ago. They had some very good teams, especially in 40's but actually dropped football for a few years in the early 50's. They spent several years as a 1-AA independent while the basketball played in the WCAC (WCC) when it was a top basketball conference.

They almost completely killed basketball by moving to the Big Sky so that the football team had a conference. They spent years in 1-AA before getting an opportunity to play in the Big West, just as it was beginning to implode.

Nevada was passed over by the WAC 16 and never considered for the MWC..The school has had to scratch and crawl for everything they have. Boise and Idaho have had a similar path. It's a hard world everywhere..

However, I don't feel victimized by being a graduate and a fan of the school..I don't look around for someone to blame..You take what you get and you make the best of the situation you are in.

Instead of denigrating former conference mates you might want to thank them for keeping things going for your school.

It just doesn't matter if other schools are looking around for greener pastures. If they go they go but it hasn't happened yet and may never.

Calling fellow conference mates pimps and whores because they have ambition is not the way to win friends and influence people.

I am happy to have USU in the conference even if you never win a football game. Your school brings a lot to the table and I expect Nevada to remain a conference mate for many years..

The season starts in a couple of weeks..Find your happy place...

Quote:Try putting yourselves into the shoes of a Utah St fan that has endured 40 years of UC Riverside, Middle Tennessee St, Cal St Fullerton, Long Beach St, Louisiana Monroe, etc. on for size! Let's see how worked up you get after 40 years of trying to rid yourselves of them when you finally find a conference worth contributing to when there's talk left and right of a break-up, which gives the impression that the future holds worse for USU. I'd love to see how all of you would react after all of the above.

Oh sorry, I didn't realize that the original question had been asked as though we were all in Utah States shoes. Given that, Yes we should all do what is best for Utah State.

Are you joking with stuff?

I was serious about my questions that you skipped over and feel that the answer is at the very heart of the matter regarding your original post.

Here it is again. Please for love of all that is holy... answer the question without an essay on Utah State history.

Quote:Under what circumstances do you think that teams should be able to or want to change conference affiliation? The norm seems to be: Whenever it benifits that institution. That seems to be consistant with what USU, as well as every other team in the WAC has done in the past.

A better question might be: Is there a benifit to changing conferences for some of the teams in the WAC, and if so, What is it (are they) and what can be done to remedy it within the WAC?

New question, why should any institution pledge loyalty to any arbitrary group if it may not be in their (not USU's) interest to do so.

Please don't assume that I am a hugly in favor of BSU going to the MWC.

Once again I'll state my personal opinion: There should be a 2nd BCS worthy conference in the west. How that should look is debateble, whether or not it should exist, IMOHO is not.

Good luck to USU and the rest of the Isralites who have found the promised land only to find out it isn't neccessarily paradise.

nvspuds Wrote:ejmpalle...Nevada has shared a conference with all those schools..I don't look down my nose at any of them. The Pack started playing football over 100 years ago. They had some very good teams, especially in 40's but actually dropped football for a few years in the early 50's. They spent several years as a 1-AA independent while the basketball played in the WCAC (WCC) when it was a top basketball conference.

They almost completely killed basketball by moving to the Big Sky so that the football team had a conference. They spent years in 1-AA before getting an opportunity to play in the Big West, just as it was beginning to implode.

Nevada was passed over by the WAC 16 and never considered for the MWC..The school has had to scratch and crawl for everything they have. Boise and Idaho have had a similar path. It's a hard world everywhere..

However, I don't feel victimized by being a graduate and a fan of the school..I don't look around for someone to blame..You take what you get and you make the best of the situation you are in.

Instead of denigrating former conference mates you might want to thank them for keeping things going for your school.

It just doesn't matter if other schools are looking around for greener pastures. If they go they go but it hasn't happened yet and may never.

Calling fellow conference mates pimps and whores because they have ambition is not the way to win friends and influence people.

I am happy to have USU in the conference even if you never win a football game. Your school brings a lot to the table and I expect Nevada to remain a conference mate for many years..

The season starts in a couple of weeks..Find your happy place...

Spuds. You're sticking your nose into this part of the conversation where it doesn't really belong. sdbronco, who is well known for pimping Boise St to the MWC btw, asked how a Utah St fan can ask this kind of question, given the Sun Belt. Let me run two things by those that need the history lesson. When the WAC was created many years ago, Utah St was part of a conference that included BYU, Utah, Wyoming, etc. Utah St lobbied the WAC then for membership and has done so ever since. When the Big West dropped football, Utah St was left with deciding between independence and the Sun Belt. Utah St wanted to stay out of the Sun Belt so badly, while keeping themselves open for the WAC as the WAC at the time was going to add a couple of teams, that they chose independence over the Sun Belt membership. (If I recall correctly, Idaho jumped on the Sun Belt membership without hesitation.) If I were a Vandal fan, you'd have a point, sdbronco. Where in any of the above history did USU show any sign of loyalty to any conference besides the WAC???? So, how can sdbronco question a Utah St fan asking this question then? I know why he really asks the question. Because he's hell bent on a MWC membership and doesn't believe that anyone should question Boise St moving on.

I'm not playing the victim here, make no mistake about it! All I want is for sdbronco to answer the question and stop trying to make me look as a hypocrite.

ejmpalle Wrote:

nvspuds Wrote:ejmpalle...Nevada has shared a conference with all those schools..I don't look down my nose at any of them. The Pack started playing football over 100 years ago. They had some very good teams, especially in 40's but actually dropped football for a few years in the early 50's. They spent several years as a 1-AA independent while the basketball played in the WCAC (WCC) when it was a top basketball conference.

They almost completely killed basketball by moving to the Big Sky so that the football team had a conference. They spent years in 1-AA before getting an opportunity to play in the Big West, just as it was beginning to implode.

Nevada was passed over by the WAC 16 and never considered for the MWC..The school has had to scratch and crawl for everything they have. Boise and Idaho have had a similar path. It's a hard world everywhere..

However, I don't feel victimized by being a graduate and a fan of the school..I don't look around for someone to blame..You take what you get and you make the best of the situation you are in.

Instead of denigrating former conference mates you might want to thank them for keeping things going for your school.

It just doesn't matter if other schools are looking around for greener pastures. If they go they go but it hasn't happened yet and may never.

Calling fellow conference mates pimps and whores because they have ambition is not the way to win friends and influence people.

I am happy to have USU in the conference even if you never win a football game. Your school brings a lot to the table and I expect Nevada to remain a conference mate for many years..

The season starts in a couple of weeks..Find your happy place...

Spuds. You're sticking your nose into this part of the conversation where it doesn't really belong. sdbronco, who is well known for pimping Boise St to the MWC btw, asked how a Utah St fan can ask this kind of question, given the Sun Belt. Let me run two things by those that need the history lesson. When the WAC was created many years ago, Utah St was part of a conference that included BYU, Utah, Wyoming, etc. Utah St lobbied the WAC then for membership and has done so ever since. When the Big West dropped football, Utah St was left with deciding between independence and the Sun Belt. Utah St wanted to stay out of the Sun Belt so badly, while keeping themselves open for the WAC as the WAC at the time was going to add a couple of teams, that they chose independence over the Sun Belt membership. (If I recall correctly, Idaho jumped on the Sun Belt membership without hesitation.) If I were a Vandal fan, you'd have a point, sdbronco. Where in any of the above history did USU show any sign of loyalty to any conference besides the WAC???? So, how can sdbronco question a Utah St fan asking this question then? I know why he really asks the question. Because he's hell bent on a MWC membership and doesn't believe that anyone should question Boise St moving on.

I'm not playing the victim here, make no mistake about it! All I want is for sdbronco to answer the question and stop trying to make me look as a hypocrite.

You are completely incorrect about what I feel about the MWC. At one time it looked like a good option, or at least the best option given the limited options that could exist. I don't like the MWC's leadership or how they see themselves but I would like to see BSU playing football vs 4 of those teams and about 4 that are currently in the WAC.

I think there is a huge need for a 2nd BCS worthy conference in the West, that is not the same.

What you see as me "pimping" is mostly me correcting those in the MWC who don't see BSU as being their equal in football. Much as you used to do, only I didn't have to resort to name calling.


Please quit miss representing what think and what I am "well known for".

Quote:I'm not playing the victim here, make no mistake about it! All I want is for sdbronco to answer the question and stop trying to make me look as a hypocrite

The WAC (BSU, Fresno, UI, UNR, UNM, SJSU, UH, and Lat Tech) isn't really what USU wants. They still want to be with BYU, Utah, Wyoming, CSU etc.

Quote:When the WAC was created many years ago, Utah St was part of a conference that included BYU, Utah, Wyoming, etc. Utah St lobbied the WAC then for membership and has done so ever since.

What makes you think that the WAC (as it exists now) was what Boise State has always wanted? Why do you think that it is so much different than your feelings about the sunbelt?

I think Boise should be in the MWC and I have no problem with any poster who posts that they want to move on..It is just message board blather.

sdbronco asked you a question too..When is it appropriate for a school to change conferences?

USU left the Sun Belt for a better fit in a conference they wanted to be in..

Some Boise fans feel more of an afifinity for the MWC. That doesn't make them bad guys.

I like the WAC and don't want to move but I am just speaking for me. I know many Nevada fans who would welcome a move to the MWC though almost no one expects one.

It's just they way things are..

nvspuds Wrote:I think Boise should be in the MWC and I have no problem with any poster who posts that they want to move on..It is just message board blather.

sdbronco asked you a question too..When is it appropriate for a school to change conferences?

USU left the Sun Belt for a better fit in a conference they wanted to be in..

Some Boise fans feel more of an afifinity for the MWC. That doesn't make them bad guys.

I like the WAC and don't want to move but I am just speaking for me. I know many Nevada fans who would welcome a move to the MWC though almost no one expects one.

It's just they way things are..

That's your opinion, which you have stated more than once and I have no problem with it. Where I take issue with conference break-ups is when the break-up is at the expense of a school or schools left behind. This is why I think the WAC should have a significant exit fee in place to compensate for such a scenario. Losing a team like Boise St would mean that the WAC would have to resurrect a D1AA team to survive. That costs a lot of money and I think the school that exits (or the conference that takes them) should have to cover the losses.

I'm getting more and more to the point where I wish WAC teams would start beating up on Boise St in football so I don't have to read or sift through many of their drivel for Boise St information I'm interested in.

ejm"in the hunt for Broncos"palle.

Now, sdbronco, it's your turn to answer the question I asked. I apologize for lumping you into the BeefZerkie group. It's been quite a while since I've read the MWC board to see if you've been posting.

I am not in favor of exits fees..Either you are happy with your business partners or you are not. I can't read the future but I would be surprised if the MWC takes even one school from the WAC or expands at all. At one time I thought it might happen but the TCU addition changed the equation a lot.

by the by..Boise is the premier football school in the WAC and they were once a 1-AA school..Same with Nevada and Idaho. No shame in resurrecting 1-AA schools if they are ambitious and want to take on the challenge.