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You know why it's called the mtn and not the MWC TV Network?
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Yoda Offline
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Post: #1
You know why it's called the mtn and not the MWC TV Network?
Because, all claims to the contrary notwithstanding, it isn't the MWC TV Network. CSTV has approached the WAC, the Big West and perhaps other western conferences about providing content to the mtn. The WAC said, "No way -- not if it is branded in such a way that directly connects it to the MWC". Hence, "the mtn." -- a name chosen because CSTV wants content from several western conferences and those conferences wouldn't agree to MWCTV.

The WAC is not currently attempting to renegotiate it's deal with ESPN (so my pet theory was wrong) and, by contract with ESPN, is not allowed to show its product through any other national outlet. So we can't go to CSTV to see if they want to show games that ESPN chooses not to show. The mtn., is not a national outlet, however, so we can sell our surplus games to them.

The WAC is still considering whether or not to provide content to the mtn. We'd like the exposure but I don't think that there is any enthusiasm for assisting the MWC in distributing its product. You have virtually no national exposure and, if the mtn doesn't pan out, you're kind of screwed. So why should we rescue the self-proclaimed "elitist ones" from their own bad business decision?

No, I'm not going to name my source but I think you can figure it out -- and the source is solid.

Yoda out...

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07-06-2006 09:29 PM
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SJSdude Offline
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Ain't no mtn high enough.
07-06-2006 09:34 PM
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mattsarz Offline
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It makes sense, the mtn is essentially a 24/7 version of SportsWest. SportsWest was sold to CSTV when Dave Checketts purchased some equity in CSTV, iirc. It wouldn't surprise me if both the WAC and Big Sky were asked to contribute to the mtn. because both previously provided content to SportsWest.
07-06-2006 09:43 PM
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billings Offline
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mattsarz Wrote:It makes sense, the mtn is essentially a 24/7 version of SportsWest. SportsWest was sold to CSTV when Dave Checketts purchased some equity in CSTV, iirc. It wouldn't surprise me if both the WAC and Big Sky were asked to contribute to the mtn. because both previously provided content to SportsWest.

Perhaps even Big West teams for olympic sports and some BB. Smart move. I truly think the MWC,WAC,CUSA need to work together in many areas.

One area I always though was weak on the WAC contract is that it did not require all teams to be on ESPN at least once. This would really help many teams in the smaller markets.
07-06-2006 09:59 PM
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jediwarrior Offline
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WTF? SJSdude is right. AINT NO MOUNTAIN HIGH ENOUGH !!!
07-07-2006 03:01 AM
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mattsarz Offline
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As I was thinking about it, there are enough slots to offer WAC games. The MWC has stated that the schedule they announced earlier was not completely set in stone and some kickoff times could be adjusted. Some might get adjusted to make it onto the mtn.

When you go to the MWC website (who here does that? ;-) ), the games to appear on the 24/7 TV networks are marked with an asterisk

All times eastern

Week 1: 4:30pm-8pm & 10pm-1:30am
Week 2: 4pm-7:30pm
Week 3: 8pm-11:30pm
Week 4: 4:30-8pm & 8pm-11:30pm
Week 5: 2pm-5:30pm
Week 6: 5pm-8:30pm
Week 7: 3pm-6:30pm
Week 8: 9pm-12:30am (Thurs.) & 3pm-6:30pm
Week 9: 2pm-5:30pm & 5:30pm-9pm
Week 10: 3pm-6:30pm & 6:30pm-10pm
Week 11: 2pm-5:30pm & 5:30pm-8pm
Week 12: TBD (Wild Card week)
Week 13: 6pm-9:30pm
Week 14: 4:30pm-8pm

I'd struggle with one conference being able to help make money off another conference. On principle, it doesn't seem like a good idea for the WAC. If the WAC was strongly considering it, I'd ask to make the games syndicated so that the make it into the WAC markets like SportsWest.

With no ESPN renegotiation, this frees the WAC to continue to explore web streaming on their own and invest in things that they can control. There is nothing wrong with that.
07-07-2006 06:13 AM
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Yoda Offline
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I kind of doubt that the WAC will offer content but I will say this. If we do, that MWC schedule had better not be set in stone. I would demand that we get half the Saturday games -- which means that they will have to move MWC games to other than Saturday nights if they want to broadcast them live or show them on a tape delay basis during the week. No way that we start scheduling games midweek so that some other non-BCS conference can schedule their games for television on Saturdays.

At this point, some of the MWC posters are basically calling me a liar. But logically the report that I made makes sense -- how likely is it that 9 non-BCS schools from a sparsely populated subregion of the country will be able to support their own financially viable cable network? A WestSports concept, one that involves many conferences, makes far more sense ? both from the standpoint of improving the quality of the product and because of the need to build as many subscribers as possible.

I don't know if that's what they planned all along or if the response from the satellite and cable people has been so underwhelming that it is a fall back position. But either way, if that is what they end up with, then it will be a big improvement -- and a big disappointment to our MWC friends.

Yoda out...
07-07-2006 09:52 AM
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Anthony Offline
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MWC
Must like Watching obscure Cable.....
07-07-2006 10:35 AM
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billings Offline
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Yoda Wrote:At this point, some of the MWC posters are basically calling me a liar. But logically that makes sense -- how likely is it that 9 non-BCS schools from a sparsely populated subregion of the country will be able to support their own financially viable cable network? A WestSports concept, one that involves many conferences, makes far more sense ? both from the standpoint of improving the quality of the product and because of the need to build as many subscribers as possible.

I don't know if that's what they planned all along or if the response from the satellite and cable people has been so underwhelming that it is a fall back position. But either way, if that is what they end up with, then it will be a big improvement -- and a big disappointment to our MWC friends.

Yoda out...

Yoda only a few MWC fans are calling you a liar and they are the usual trolls who nobody puts much credence in anyway. Nice exaggeration there. why are you letting Junky push your buttons like that?

Both the WAC and MWC needed help getting certain schools on the air. If you really want to help the schools in your conference get better, top to bottom, than more exposure can only help right? Fresno might not have any problem getting ESPN time from home games but is that true of the whole conference?

A regional TV channel with multiple conferences makes a lot of sense and will benefit all schoosl involved if done correctly and I stress correctly. Anybody who thought a TV channel could be dedicated to only 9 non-bcs schools needed the wake-up call anyway.
07-07-2006 10:39 AM
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jediwarrior Offline
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If our "National" contract with ESPN remains the same until 2009 or so, I guess I don't have too much of a problem with it.

I still think the WAC is in a very solid position to negotiate with ESPNU to lock in a contract for a specified number of games. No matter how you slice this one...ESPNU doesn't have a whole lot of choices when it comes to D-1a conferences out west. The WAC is their only option. So I see some leverage there. Karl?

The WAC is still working on a "Regional" carrier...but they're trying to find a network that will benefit all 9 WAC schools. I say, shrink the "Regional" coverage thing to 7 or 8 schools. Don't worry about Hawaii when it comes to "Regional" coverage since Hawaii has a good "local" contract. The contract covers up to 80 games in various sports...so there's not many prime games left for a "Regional" carrier anyway.

But, whatever the WAC does, stay away from this mtn thing.

I think we all know that the mtn "wasn't" intended to be a "western region" network. It was intended to be a MWC network. But apparently the MWC "cannot" float a network all by its lonesome...so this is CSTV's plan to keep this mtn thing alive.

Benson will never be accused of being a rocket scientist. But even he should be able to see that the mtn does "nothing" for the WAC...but everything for the MWC.

I think I'm going to have to drop Karl-boy a line to remind him about ESPNU...and maybe a "Regional" carrier contract. ESPN-Plus would definitely work for me.

This is definitely "not" good for the MWC.

I wonder if the Big-10 is in the same predicament as the MWC? ;-)
07-07-2006 11:12 AM
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Yoda Offline
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I said, "some" and I count 7 -- which, in my view anyway, isn't an exaggeration. Cowboy Junky, tacosalad2, lobomonstro, headbutt, e-zone99, mpdalry and even RebelRobert have all said, in one fashion or another, that I'm making it up.

While they generally fall into the troll category, it is an unusually large number of trolls responding to even one of my posts. And while I confess that I all too often let CJ push my buttons, I've done a very good job of not responding to trolls on this one. Only one response to a troll (CJ) and only then when I wanted to give new information.

What you say is true, the WAC and MWC both need better exposure and a joint network would be a much better avenue for getting that. But your folks are still so arrogant that they think they can go it alone -- and that forces us to develop our own independent strategy. I don't think we are ever going to work together very well unless and until your leaders drop the notion that they are so much better than we are and can dictate terms to us. In other words, your term "if done correctly" starts with the notion that we work together as equals and that is a concession that I doubt the MWC will ever be willing to make.

Yoda out...
07-07-2006 11:28 AM
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ejmpalle Offline
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Yoda Wrote:Cowboy Junky, tacosalad2, lobomonstro, headbutt, e-zone99, mpdalry and even RebelRobert
Yoda out?

Those are definitely some trolls. Too bad posters like billings aren't prominent voices on the MWCboard.

As for the MWC tv deal, I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'd like to sell them.
07-07-2006 11:33 AM
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NuMexAg Offline
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Quote:But logically that makes sense -- how likely is it that 9 non-BCS schools from a sparsely populated subregion of the country will be able to support their own financially viable cable network? A WestSports concept, one that involves many conferences, makes far more sense ? both from the standpoint of improving the quality of the product and because of the need to build as many subscribers as possible.

Extending that very sound logic a bit further, I have never really understood the MWC vs WAC battle (and maybe it's just from us fans and not the conference offices - in which case it does make some sense) and the general lack of cooperation. The real battle is BCS vs non-BCS and by working together non-BCS conferences have way more power than they do trying to go it alone and battling each other and the BCS.

We are talking about universities here - so theoretically we are not trying to put each other out of business or even maximize our returns to stockholders. The big business of college FB is driven by the BCS, and we non-BCS types are playing right along.

Seems to me a multi-conference, region-wide TV effort would be a great start.
07-07-2006 11:33 AM
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ejmpalle Offline
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NuMexAg Wrote:Extending that very sound logic a bit further, I have never really understood the MWC vs WAC battle (and maybe it's just from us fans and not the conference offices - in which case it does make some sense) and the general lack of cooperation. The real battle is BCS vs non-BCS and by working together non-BCS conferences have way more power than they do trying to go it alone and battling each other and the BCS.

We are talking about universities here - so theoretically we are not trying to put each other out of business or even maximize our returns to stockholders. The big business of college FB is driven by the BCS, and we non-BCS types are playing right along.

Seems to me a multi-conference, region-wide TV effort would be a great start.

Good question. I'm not sure about the offices, but many times it seems that the MWC considers itself BCS worthy and the rest of the mids, not. When the reality is that in order for the mids to succeed, as a whole, they need to be partners against the BCS. Unfortunately, there seems to be a pecking order, that is seen very evidently in recruiting, that is anti uniting.
07-07-2006 11:49 AM
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jediwarrior Offline
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What is all this partnering with the MWC stuff?

If we're talking about bringing down the BCS Cartel, the non-BCS conferences need to unite and take their fight to the US Congress...after we take the BCS Cartel to court.

If we want to maximize the exposure of the WAC, partnering with the MWC "aint" it. If we want to "partner"...partner with the Pac-10.

Exposure comes from scheduling the Pac-10 and other BCS schools.

Exposure comes from Benson working out a TV contract with ESPNU.

Exposure comes from Benson landing a "Regional" TV contract with ESPN-Plus.

Mentioning the "mtn" and "exposure" in the same sentence is an oxymoron to say the least.

Think BIG my WAC mates. We're in a good position to move the conference forward. ...and there's no need to take baby steps...or jump on baby networks.
07-07-2006 12:32 PM
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donkeyrider Offline
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CSTV sucks and mtn will be worse
Last nite CSTV was showing a paintball ...match...contest...shootout, whatever it is called. DII womens bowling has been shown. The whole thing just sucks to a point that it is worse than bad. The Outdoor Channel, which is the competition, shows all sorts of shows that bring content. Having to be college based like CSTV is bad enough. Add to it that the "mtn" will not even have the DII womens bowling and you get the picture. Even when events of some interest are available "mtn" is stuck with the MWC. A bike race or auto race may not be of interest to many but the 20th re-run of a swimming event will not bring the advertisers to their door. Showing exclusive MWC content will be the death of "mtn". There is just not enough content for 24/7 broadcasting. Will there be anyone that has not seen a game when it has been shown 40 times? What happens all summer? They will be so hard up for content that I can see someone filming a game of cards, Hearts or Fish, at the SUB.

Every WAC school can do their own webcast and charge what they desire. One thing that can be said is if you play in Bronco Stadium, the game will be available on the internet or if the visitors want it, it will be on TV. Every Bronco home game is on local TV and it can be picked up by those that want it. Every Bronco away game is on TV unless some chap job network like "mtn" won't release the game.

I predict that "mtn" will sell every game that they can as soon as they see that cable companies are not taking their limited content as a network.

The WAC doesn't need "mtn" but "mtn" needs the WAC, Big Sky,PCC, NAIA and DII in the west to add content. A conference will look really small even if it gets on CSTV with all of the NAIA DII schools that provide most of the current content. One is known by his associates.
07-07-2006 01:08 PM
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jediwarrior Offline
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I'm with you Donkeyrider.

Every Hawaii home game is televised by a local provider. The local network even travels and televises Hawaii "away" games...

...with the "exception" of any MWC "away" game. Playing MWC schools is bad business for Hawaii.

Hawaii home games are also available on the internet through Hawaiian Telephone for like 10 bucks.
07-07-2006 01:55 PM
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Frog in the Kitchen Sink Offline
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Yoda Wrote:I said, "some" and I count 7 -- which, in my view anyway, isn't an exaggeration. Cowboy Junky, tacosalad2, lobomonstro, headbutt, e-zone99, mpdalry and even RebelRobert have all said, in one fashion or another, that I'm making it up.

While they generally fall into the troll category, it is an unusually large number of trolls responding to even one of my posts. And while I confess that I all too often let CJ push my buttons, I've done a very good job of not responding to trolls on this one. Only one response to a troll (CJ) and only then when I wanted to give new information.

What you say is true, the WAC and MWC both need better exposure and a joint network would be a much better avenue for getting that. But your folks are still so arrogant that they think they can go it alone -- and that forces us to develop our own independent strategy. I don't think we are ever going to work together very well unless and until your leaders drop the notion that they are so much better than we are and can dictate terms to us. In other words, your term "if done correctly" starts with the notion that we work together as equals and that is a concession that I doubt the MWC will ever be willing to make.

Yoda out...
Hey, you left me off.

Truthfully, the only problem I had about was not that the mtn. was looking for additional programming options, but that the name was chosen with that in mind. I dunno, guess I was just bored today and was looking for a debate (not that I don't have enough to do).
07-07-2006 02:07 PM
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Yoda Offline
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Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:Hey, you left me off.

Truthfully, the only problem I had about was not that the mtn. was looking for additional programming options, but that the name was chosen with that in mind. I dunno, guess I was just bored today and was looking for a debate (not that I don't have enough to do).
Assuming that you are also Killerfrog in the Kitchen Sink, you are always respectful and never in the troll category.

And yeah, who knows? Maybe my source did embellish it a little. On the other hand, MWC-TV is so inherently logical that I'd like to know the reason that they didn't choose it. I can't imagine a reason other than that given by my source (unless it was already taken).

Yoda out...
07-07-2006 02:23 PM
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SPCoug Offline
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Yoda Wrote:I kind of doubt that the WAC will offer content but I will say this. If we do, that MWC schedule had better not be set in stone. I would demand that we get half the Saturday games -- which means that they will have to move MWC games to other than Saturday nights if they want to broadcast them live or show them on a tape delay basis during the week. No way that we start scheduling games midweek so that some other non-BCS conference can schedule their games for television on Saturdays.

Whoa there Yoda, help me out. Isn't the WAC doing precisely that already, scheduling games midweek?

Furthermore, the mantra I've heard out here for months is that "exposure is everything, compensation is (relatively) nothing." ESPN says play on Tuesday night at 9 p.m.? No problem and we'll do it for $1 million/year. So along comes the mtn with an offer for more exposure. All of a sudden I'm hearing that timing and price are the sine qua non.

That seems to fly at variance with what I've heard previously.

You've stated elsewhere that you want to be treated as an equal with the MWC in any potential mtn negotiations. Unfortunately, that's highly unlikely to occur for several very valid reasons:

1. The old adage that "possession is 9/10 of the law." The MWC's contract is already signed, sealed and delivered. Like corporate buyouts, the MWC signed up first and got the best compensation package and time slots (Corporate Buyout Rule 1: If you're thinking of leaving, do so ASAP because the longer one waits, the worse the parachutes become.). It's also a bit like seniority in some industries: Six months can make a huge difference in one's job for a long time. It reminds me of my dad talking about how he would have had a much better position in his career, had he hired out at the beginning of a hiring boom, rather than midway through (which put him way down the seniority chart). Someone higher up told him "son, too bad you stayed on the farm to plow that last furrow."

2. Risk/reward. Every one of us probably wishes we had bought Microsoft stock 25 years ago. Problem is we either dallied or didn't want to take the risk. In any business venture, the earlier one gets involved, the greater the risk of failure, due to more uncertainty. However, for ventures that succeed, the early birds do much better than the johnny-come-latelys. Had the WAC signed with CSTV when the MWC did, we'd be looking at an equal division of the prime slots. It didn't happen. As Jeffrey Holland, who was president of BYU when I was there frequently stated, "the opportunity of a lifetime has to be taken during the lifetime of the opportunity."

3. Precedent. The numbers, unfortunately, speak for themselves: MWC schools will get about 12 times as much from their TV deal as the WAC. Although I'd like to think that my conference is the better of the two, speaking collectively, it's not 12 times better, not by a long shot. So did the WAC buy too heavily into the "exposure is all that matters" mindset and sell itself short? Alas, I think so. Even more unfortunate is the reputation and precedent it sets, which will hurt in not just CSTV negotiations but everywhere else. It's sort of like an outsourcing firm in India, suddenly thinking it can demand the same price as a firm is paying its current workforce.

Actually, that's arguably a valid analogy: CSTV and the mtn are, in effect, offering to "out source" some of their bandwidth to various conferences. Since they won't be getting the WAC's best games, which belong to ESPN, it can't ever be a relationship of equals, sadly. But is it better than nothing? That's for the WAC powers that be to decide.

I suspect that someone, be it the WAC, Big Sky, Big West or a combination, will fill those slots. The only question is who and when.
07-07-2006 02:35 PM
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