The unofficial online home for fans of the Kent State University Golden Flashes. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

PH,

Agreed on the OC! Hopefully, he has seen this and the money is in the budget for next year. There is too much on his plate to be calling plays.

Flash Freak Wrote:You don't lose the opportunity for big f-ball pay days...App State vs. Mich...Y'Town State vs. OSU, etc...The 12th game made scheduling at leat one 1-AA game a necessity.

I thought the scholarship difference is 30 (65 mx for 1-AA and 95 max for 1-A). Maybe I'm wrong.

The basic pay day is different. The standard pay for a IA paying a IAA to appear is 150K to 250K. KSU has been getting 500K to 750K to appear. Also, a IA will not appear at a IAA stadium. At least MAC schools have been getting 2 for 1s.

Diito on 85 max grants.

It's a program (expense) that can not be justified. KSU football has been awful for most of the past 50 years, the exception being Don James' brief tenure in the early 1970s. Overall, the team is a disaster. Every year we're either firing a coach, hiring the wrong guy (again and again) or deluding oursleves that next year is it, we're just about to turn the corner, this team is really coming together....

The talk about dropping to 1-AA is an option. In any case, anyone with a brain knows the MAC is 1-A in name only. No MAC school has the budget, facilities, or fan base to complete with the real 1-A conferences (Conference USA and the Sunbelt are in the same position generally). Yes, every now and again some MAC school, usually Miami, Toledo or NIU, knock off an OOC 1-A team, but usually its a 1-A team at the absolute bottom of the barrel. In regard to Kent State, we're not even talking about (or should not be talking about) OOC opponents or whether the MAC is or could be the Big 10. The fact is that Kent can't win INSIDE the MAC 90% of the time. Call last year's 6-6 record a high-water mark, the result of a perfect storm of circumsance and luck where Kent looks good (and wins) against weak, young, injured teams. 2007? Back to reality. KSU has neither the coaching staff or the players (with few exceptions) to beat the MAC. We should have expected this. Didn't KSU lose to Buffalo last year? Wasn't this a sign that 6-6 was a deception?

What does 4-8 (and they will lose to Buffalo) do for the 2008 recruits? Not too damn much, I'm afraid. Come on, raise your hands if you really think Kent has 7-9 wins in it in 2008? I didn't think so. And if after 4-5 years of Martin KSU fans can't expect to have a winning season, then he's not the guy. One more year? Sure, let him coach one more year. In any case, who would else coach at Kent for 150,000 a year. I'd do it, but can you name me anyone else who would want this mess? I mean, anyone who could turn it around? Didn't think so.

kent1991 Wrote:raise your hands if you really think Kent has 7-9 wins in it in 2008?

I have an idea...let's replace Boston College, Iowa State and the Louisiana team with Coppin State, Longwood and Shawnee State (along with Delaware State).

There's four wins right there. After that, we need to just go .500 in-conference and that's a successful season, right?! Even if they finish 2-6 in-conference, they'd be 6-6!

I'll take that.

Unfortunately, football can't load up with the Detroit's, Longwood's, Coppin State's and IPFW's of the world to offset the tough part of its schedule.

I'm sorry many of you don't agree that the team is making progress. There's no fault in that.

I however believe there is progress. The team is more competitive--even with the injuries.

Two years ago if someone told me KSU would play at Northern Illinois with our fourth string quarterback, I'd have expected a 31 point blowout.

This season, KSU's six losses in the MAC have been by an average of 8.5 points (three by just seven points).

In 2006, it was 20.3; 2005- 16.7; 2004- 9.5 and in 2003, 12.5.

The team IS becoming more competitive. Sure, they haven't cleared the last hurdles yet, but they are getting there.

That's all I ask for is progress. I want competitive football.

There are a lot of reasons why Kent State is where it is in regards to football. A lot of it is the history of the program. But, it's also the reputation the school has in Ohio. It's hard to recruit in Ohio when kids would rather go to a Division III school than to Kent State because of the bad academic reputation (as well as the football rep).

Erasing that isn't going to happen overnight...it isn't going to happen in one year or two years. You have to build a program, not put band-aids on it so you can win today.

Again, I know most of you disagree...and that's fine. As long as the program is here, and I see improvements, I'll support it. Just like I do the basketball program and wrestling and volleyball and gymnastics and everything else Kent State.



And of course,

bad academic reputation....huh?

This is not only false but hardly a reason that recruits would choose a DIII program over Kent State. Plus, show me one case where this has happened.

Look, I know a little bit about higher education, and KSU and the rest of the Ohio's large universities are all about the same. Some are more selective than others (Kent is more selective than OSU), but basically our Ohio university system is very good. Miami has the best reputation of them all, but that doen't make the rest of us (Toledo, Akron, UC, etc.) a pack of mouth-breathers.

You're simply parrotting nonsense that originated as a University of Akron cheer: Can't Read, Can't Write, Kent State. Funny, but not true.

If Kent had such a bad reputation, then how did I (and 1000s of other Kent graduates) get into graduate school at other institutions? How is it that I found myself as well prepared or better prepared for graduate studies and the work force as my graduate school cohorts from "better" universities? Ever notice what Kent's reputation is for the college of education? Every notice that unique little institute on campus where liquid crystals were developed? Anyone feel cheated by their program in business administration? Hmmm?

Anyway, let's not talk nonesense. KSU football hasn't suffered because of some real or imagined academic weakness. It's failed because it could not hire anyone after Don James that knew what he was doing (in terms of being a HEAD coach). We had a real moment with Glen Mason, but Kent couldn't keep him ($$$). What did we get afte that? Cordelli? Crum? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can see progress and you can be happy with that; you're wasting your own time, not mine. I'd be right with you if we were talking about a team that's been down for a few years. However, Kent has been in freefall since 1977 and they never were much prior to 1969 either. You want competitive football? That's all you want after 30 years?

I hoped for much more.

kent1991...I'm not saying I believe the bad reputation...I'm telling you what I've heard come out of kids mouths in covering recruiting for the past five years. You need more proof, sorry I can't provide it.

Like you, I do hope for much more from the football program. But, like I said, it isn't going to happen overnight. You have to build a program. That starts with building depth, so if you lose a key player, your team doesn't fall apart. KSU isn't there yet.

I'll gladly waste my own time to support the teams at my alma mater.

If you're hearing bad things about Kent from high school kids in your area, who am I to say you're wrong. However, just what does an 18-year old know about the qualities or shortcomings of Kent or any university? They judge things based on sports, mostly football. So, sure, to your average high school kid, Kent is losertown. Still, we hope that we get a higher level student than those who judge an institution based on what it does on Saturdays. Judging by the fact that kent has 22,000+ students, I guess things aren't that bad, especially if you consider the number of in-state options they have. If we're talking about students choosing D-III over KSU, than fine. That happens everyday and not just to Kent.

So, football is nothing but a PR program for any university. Let's just say that KSU's "outreach program" has been one enormous and expensive failure.

Turing it around certainly won't happen overnight. My frustration is that 30 years is far beyond that. Martin has gone 5-6, 1-10, 6-6, 3-8 (soon to be 3-9). Does that look like progress to you? Yes? Okay, do you think it looks like progress to those 18-year old recruits? I'd bet no. My guess is, that Martin's recruiting class this year will fall off considerably in the wake of 3-9. That's on top of the fact that his previous classes haven't been all that hot either.

The MAC is funny. Few teams win year after year. However, it is also a conference that does not require 5-year rebuilds. Brian Kelley takes over at CMU and in three years has them in a bowl. Please don't tell me that CMU has some great advanatge over Kent in any respect. Well, it has one: an AD that knows how to hire and keep football coaches who[/i] win.

"Well, it has one: an AD that knows how to hire and keep football coaches who[/i] win."

So, you are saying it's Laing Kennedy's fault?

Yes, Kent has 22,000 students...and most of those 22,000 will learn that Kent is a fine academic institution. They'll also go on and defend their degree to their friends...just as I have done over and over again.

How many times have you run into someone, told them you went to Kent State then heard, "oh, Kent is a great party school!"

That's Kent State's reputation. That has nothing to do with football.

Miami, Ohio, Bowling Green...excellent reputations as "quality" schools. That's perception...not necessarily reality.

I'm with you on this...believe me. I'm just telling you that perception to an 18-year old is fact.

There's a saying..."anywhere but Kent!" Kids are leaving Ohio to go to Ball State and Eastern Michigan because they don't want to go to "Kent." They don't want to have to justify their degree to their friends and family.

There have been a lot of bad football teams at Kent State...lots of them. That takes its toll on a program.

You can throw in the towel or do something about it.

You can build a program or a team.

Kent State can go out and sign 15 JUCO kids this winter and bring in kids with two years of college football experience. They might win...but after that, where are you?

You either get caught up in that cycle or you build a program. Doug Martin is building a program.

He's brought in a lot of talented players. They are getting better. The team is building depth. You saw it...Edelman went down and Giorgio Morgan stepped in and played great. Unfortunately he got hurt too. That happens--it's football.

The point is they are in a place I've never seen this team...not since I started following it. That's what has me encouraged.

If you don't see it now, I hope you do in the future. I can't guarantee they improve, but it's my opinion that they will.

Off to the hoops game.

"So, you are saying it's Laing Kennedy's fault?"

Yes, I am. If Kennedy was there for the hires after Mason, then yes, he has some blame in this for sure. Was Pees a good hire? Not in my book. It took him all those years to squeeze out a 6-5 season then quit on them. Was Martin a good hire? Nope. Pre-Pees? Everyone back to Mason was a stiff. Whose fault is it then? Yours? Mine? Did anyone ask us whom to hire? Nope, that's on the AD. Just what was it about Pikel and Saban that the AD didn't like? Both of these gys, Kent grads, WANTED the job. Sure, we wouldn't have kept either for the long haul, but either of these guys would have put the program back on its feet. That I'm sure of. What did we get? Pete Frekaing Cordelli!!!! That's who. What's he doing now? Selling used cars?

We'll just agree to disagree. I don't really know why someone would jump to Eastern Michigan or Ball State to avoid justfying thier KSU degrees. Really, this sounds like nonsense. If it's true, KSU is better off without them. This idea that one state university of better than another is mystifying. In any case, my point is that this has ZERO to do with football recruits. If some recruit who was not Big 10 caliber rejects Kent in favor of BGSU or Toledo, it is't because his English professor read Cliff's notes instead of the real thing. It's because the team is a mess and he doesn't see Martin (in this case) as the man to turn the team around.

If Martin pulls this team together and wins 7+ games next year, I'l admit I'm wrong. I'll go hunt down one of those big fat crows that used to buzz our dorm and eat it feathers, bones, gristle and all. I'll be happy because it's Kent. I'll also be totally surprised. I just don't see Martin and this staff doing what it takes to pull this team out of a 30 year mudhole, 4 of which are his own making. That's four years to recruit and institute a plan to create, for the first time, a program to be proud of. All I see is the same old Kent wasting the few legitimate D-I recruits it has. Everyone has injuries. Good coaches still win. Martin's team collapse totally. I don't see progress. I see a Kent team that is probably more talented than most of the MAC EAST, and yet it loses to Temple, NIU, etc.

Keep the faith, my brother. I can respect that. I just can't justify spending the time and money to take my kids from Columbus to Kent to see that mess.

One last remark: I don't know where you live, but in central and southern Ohio, I have never had to defend or justify my undergraduate degree from Kent State to friends, family or potential employers. I get that sad look on occaison during football season, but I've never had anyone say that Kent is a party school, etc. Really, we're not very good at that anyway. Suit Case U!!!! Everyone went home on Friday afternoon in the 80s and 90s. This is still probably true.

As far as a suitcase campus goes, I think it must have gotten better. Sure there are still weekends where everyone goes home (most three-day weekends), but I would say the majority of on/near-campus students stay. And, the more involved they were with student organizations, the more they stayed. At least I found that to be the case from '00 - '05.

kent1991

You can thank our favorite alumnus, Lou Holtz, for Pete Cordelli. His word carried the day over Pinkel & Saban and both of them were very upset about not getting the job.

Div. I-AA isn't even a discussion point unless the whole league goes that way. I don't know why we continue to discuss it.

Those close to the program still feel that Coach Martin can get it done. The league is so close in talent that a loss of a few players and injuries can change the whole complexion. Look at OU this year.

Seems like you're taking issue at the wrong guy here, Steve only mentioned the reputation not started it. Reputations are just that, doesn't make them factual but some people believe them. Ever hear about any girl's reputation in school when it was the furthest thing from the truth? Think it stopped guys from trying to get a piece of action because of a false reputation? The reputation is there, you obviously don't believe it, I sure as hell don't believe it, neither does Steve and I'm sure nobody else around here wants to believe it but it was out there and maybe it does go back to that idiotic chant. I know I'm proud of my degree, I know the school has some great selling points but trying to convince kids of these things is an uphill battle. Despite raising the academics over the years some kids still have that image and act like they had to settle for only going to Kent State. As for the football program, without a doubt it has been frustrating but at this point they are making progress whether you choose to believe it or not. And if it is as bad as you claim what is there to lose by allowing Martin to show us what he has next year? They need stability in order to recruit, try bringing a kid in and he thinking they might have 3 different coaches in his 5 years, good luck with that sell! I was there in worse years than this and the coaching door was a revolving one, that was difficult and I only could have only wished to have the opportunities the kids there now have.

As for Pinkel, obviously he was a KSU grad and should've gotten the job, but Cordelli got the job thanks to Lou Holtz another KSU grad and extremely influential person in this business as well as major donor with the athletic department. Hindsight is always 20-20.

We had a record number of applicants and freshmen enrolled at Kent State last year fall, including over 30% of students from outside of NE Ohio. This is one reason why more students hang around on weekends. We are expected to soon announce very good news on student retention. Our ratings, requirements and reputation (as reported from high school counselors surveyed)are all on the upswing. There are indications our upswing will be confirmed with the higher education report coming out this March, which should put this nonsense to rest.

We might lose a recruit for lots of reasons, but an 18 year old who tells you he picked any other MAC school except Miami or Ohio over Kent State for academic reasons just doesn't have the facts or is giving you a line.

FlashFan...I agree with your last statement. I really do.

When I'm talking to recruits I can't say, "whoa, that's not true. You should go experience Kent and see it for yourself." I can't do that. But, I hear it a lot.

I talk to anywhere between 300-400, probably more, high school football players in Ohio each year. Obviously, I don't hear it from all of them, but when Kent is in the mix, it's usually a last option. That's a fact.

I want to see all of that change, not just for the benefit of the football program, but for the University as a whole.

Nobody needs to come on this message board and tell us what WE already know.

I remember reading something about KSU's president trying to increase out-of-state enrollment. I think the analogy is true of football recruiting. Currently, I'd say that KSU falls behind OSU, Cincinnati, Miami, Ohio, BGSU, Toledo and Akron when it comes to luring in-state recruits. And that doesn't factor in all the other MAC schools (and BCS conference schools) dipping into the state talent pool.

With the amount of talent in Ohio, I see no reason Kent shouldn't be able to be a consistently competitive program in the MAC. But, it has to start with changing the reputation, deserved or not (and I know it's not deserved).

I have a cousin, she's now a senior in college. Her uncle (her mom's side) and my uncle both wanted her to go to Kent State. Her uncle is a KSU alum and my uncle (her dad) graduated from Cleveland State--actually, he hasn't graduated yet, but has taken classes since I was a teenager.

She went to Lake Catholic....there was no way she was going to Kent State. Instead, she went to Lakeland Community College and transferred to CSU.

She heard positive things about KSU from her family but it was the opinion of her friends that carried the most weight.

I love Kent State...that's why I won't apologize for the comments in the first post in this thread. I'm not ashamed that I started a private message board to promote my alma mater's sports programs--no matter how bad they are.

My glass is half-full...even when it might be empty. But, that's the way I prefer it.

I did it again...I started typing in the Quick Reply box, so no dancing bananas here, but I am smiling!

;0)

I agree that KSU football needs improvement, but I agree with the comments on KSu has become a great school and is no longer suit case u.

I'd even argue that students are choosing KSU over Ohio U. and Miami for certain programs and for the culture here.

Many very intelligent students come here over Miami and OSU because they enjoy the suburban setting with the liberal non stuck up culture here.

Our programs are nationally known and thats why we are pulling students from other parts of the state, country and world.

Did you know that KSU music dept is about to be one of the few schools world wide to be classified as All-Steinway? (Pianos) Did you know that Kent's journalism program has an endowed Knight chair? (Only one in the state)

KSU has a lot to be proud of and we do too.

I think its important that we realize that KSU is amazing and world-class especially when we have AKron Community College down the road trying to be KSU and state that they are better.

Stay firm in your KSU spirit and lets watch while KSU becomes one of the great schools in the US.

jflash07...great points. And, I do agree....students (and football players) are beginning to choose KSU over other Ohio MAC programs.

Last year's class...there were several kids that opted for KSU over other programs. It happened this class too, despite the poor season.

Josh Kline (from Mason, Ohio) chose KSU over offers from Ohio and even Central Michigan.

I believe.

Quote:Did you know that Kent's journalism program has an endowed Knight chair? (Only one in the state)

JMC is a Top 20 program. Has anyone else been through their new building yet? Wow. I mean WOW.

We have one of the only integrated media programs in the country, all produced in state of the art digital studios. The networks are coming through to see the protoype HD studios we have in Frankilin Hall.

WOW...5 years ago, who would've thought state of the art and Franklin Hall would be used in the same sentence?