The unofficial online home for fans of the Kent State University Golden Flashes. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

OV - Difference is that JC was directly more critical of his team..."We lost our minds" type quote. Basically saying that this was a bonehead play. While he didn't single out a player, the overall tone of the comment indicates that JC is upset and that type thing will likely not happen again. Coach Martin (at least in the press) seems to coddle his players.

My critcism of Coach Martin also stems from comments such as this.."We drove up and down the field on Akron's defense; they had absolutely no answers for us." His intent was likely not to criticize Akron's D, but many of their fans / players took it that way. Wouldn't it have been better to just say" we moved the ball very well, but were stopped by mainly by own mistakes." I heard /read other things like this that makes me cringe...

Nobody's perfect (eapecially me) and I know that Coach Martin is a nice and classy man. I just wanted to clarify (about one aspect) of what bothers me about Coach Martin's coaching.

Flash Freak...I respect your opinion, however I do disagree with it.

First off, I don't see fault with what either coach had to say.

But, I disagree that the tone of either comment is any different.

JC said, "we lost our mind." DM said, "we had a guy right there to make a play he just missed the tackle."

JC said, "If we would of remained composed we would of won." DM said, "The only thing that can beat us right now are turnovers and that's what beat us today."

Both of them could have said, "if we would have scored more points than they did we would have won."

Something tells me that if that was what was said, we'd still be discussing the positive of JC's comment and the negative of DM's.

It's ok...really.

I only commented because I disagreed that what JC said (the quote cited above) is any different than what DM has said after games.

Maybe I'm in the minority, and I'm OK with that.

IMHO, the difference between the men's basketball program and the football program are very simple.

In the last ten years,

Kent Basketball has met or exceeded expectations.

Kent Football has rarely met expectations.

JC will get considerably more lee-way on a bad game because of this fact. Doug Martin will get considerably less lee-way.

Quote:IMHO, the difference between the men's basketball program and the football program are very simple.

In the last ten years,

Kent Basketball has met or exceeded expectations.

Kent Football has rarely met expectations.

JC will get considerably more lee-way on a bad game because of this fact. Doug Martin will get considerably less lee-way.

Jim Christain wins seven out of ten games. That will buy some equity. Doug Martin loses seven out of ten games. That will cost some.

Quote:My critcism of Coach Martin also stems from comments such as this.."We drove up and down the field on Akron's defense; they had absolutely no answers for us." His intent was likely not to criticize Akron's D, but many of their fans / players took it that way. Wouldn't it have been better to just say" we moved the ball very well, but were stopped by mainly by own mistakes." I heard /read other things like this that makes me cringe...

Don't forget the moral victory of "going for the the end zone on the last play.":banghead: How many times this year have we heard that? The day I hear JC ask us to feel better that we took a last shot at the basket, we'll know he has a fevor.

Quote:Oh, almost forgot...
Can't have anyone thinking I'm upset.

Yes, Jim Christian wins 7 of 10 games. How many did the previous coach win? How about the coach before him?

I think Jim Christian is an outstanding coach. But, I also realize he inherited a pretty good situation.

Chew on this...

This is Doug's fourth year at Kent State. Assuming KSU loses the last two, he's finish 15-31. In the prevous four years, KSU was 15-31 (Dean Pees).

Through Jim Christian's first four years at KSU, he's 89-40. The four years prior? Stan Heath and Gary Waters combined to go 100-31.

OOOOHHHH... winning 15 out of 46 games for a .320 percentage. Who wouldn't be delighted with that?

Don't forget...we're going to be awesome next year.

FlashFan Wrote:OOOOHHHH... winning 15 out of 46 games for a .320 percentage. Who wouldn't be delighted with that?

Don't forget...we're going to be awesome next year.

I know you didn't miss the point; you chose to ignore it and act like a spoiled four-year old in the process.

The point was that as miserable as this season has gone, Martin has kept pace with those that "led" the way.

There has been no history of success for Kent State, and you are laying the blame on Doug Martin's feet because they lost some games they should have won.

That's your right--you can choose to judge him any way you like. And I know you will. It's just a shame that someone in your position would willingly demean a member of the University in the manner you do.

This thread is getting pretty humorous in its use of faulty logic. We hire a coach to inherit a winning program and expect him to keep the standard high. OK! Now we hire a coach to take over a losing program for the purpose of matching his predecessors. That is not OK. If I hire a new coach, I assume that he is aware of the program and its history. The first time he mentions that the job is though because of having no winning tradition, I fire the guy on the spot because I know he will never be successful. You can never allow the players to hear that opinion. Another thing my observation tells me is that it is very seldom that a new coach gets a second chance to make a good first impression.

Most of you think from my comments here in before that I would like to see the present coach fired. This is not true, but for reasons not so apparent. I am convinced that the knowledge of the game of the person who does the FB coach hiring, stops at knowing that 14 beats 13. I have watched that handling of the program of Cordelli, Corrigal, Pees, and now Martin. That makes me think that we have as good as we are going to get. At least I can know that our coach is a nice, ethical man and that helps for a while.

NO ONE has led the way for Kent State football since Glen Mason left. You want to feel better that we're not any worse. Everyone has different standards, I suppose.

I am a VOLUNTEER and can think whatever I want. Trust me, my views are mild compared to what others with real influence think about this season. My critique is the least of DM's problems. I don't think a winning percentage of .320 is good. You do. I don't think being picked to come in first and coming in last is progress. You do. Nothing to debate, really. If I claimed media credentials and charged people for objective coverage vs. a one sided opinion, that would be a different story, I suppose. But I don't.

For the record, Doug Martin is a fine man. Who wouldn't want a guy like him to win? But his team has not performed up to expectations, no matter what his friends say.

Still, I'm not mad.

Okay, this thread is almost as dramatic as the thread started after Akron lost the MAC last year in b-ball. Really, we are Kent State. Some of you act as if we just lost a national championship or something. The "this coach is terrible" rif really doesn't matter here. Lets just get over it before we draw in a bunch of hecklers from Summit County.

FlashFan Wrote:Still, I'm not mad.

You know, I was in a pretty bad mood on Saturday night when Kent lost to Detroit. Too many junior transfers just translate into slow starts, I think, but dam*!

Hey, bopal, are you going to the Thanksgiving weekend tourney?

bopol,flashfan,flashfreak,flashgrad............The Dr. will see you now.

First...what a coach says to the press doesn't make him a good coach or a bad coach.
Many good coaches never air their teams dirty laundry in public(ie. call the team or individuals out in public). Coach Martin is one of those guys...when it comes to the press..they need to know only what they need to know. Kind of like Eric Wedge of the Indians. If it would make you guys happier to see him rant and rave after a loss.... you'll be disappointed for a long time. If you believe he doesn't get after his team behind closed doors you are ignorant, not stupid, ignorant. Maybe it's because he's from the South and he believes in that old saying about "If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all"... reading some of these posts I think some of your mom's didn't teach you that one.

Second....KSU football is headed in the right direction. It's been eighty years of losing so what's a couple more years. The talent is here and if healthy this program will continue to grow. Take pride in the fact that we are very, very close.

Third.....Don't compare basketball programs with football programs.....again it exposes the ignorance thing. Pay attention....there are five starters in basketball, 22 starters plus special teams in football. Three stud recruits can change a basketball program forever(why do you think they cheat so much)...three stud football recruits, if they can stay healthy might help a football team, might not. Winning in football consistantly is not easy, even with a big name university draw......Duke and North Carolina seem to have decent basketball programs but suck in football....must be because their coaches are proud of their kids, I'm not sure.

Sit back, relax, the program is in good hands..just be a good fan that's what you're best at. If football gives you a headache or is a pain in your a## give me a call and I'll set up an appointment, it might just be hemorrhoids.

Next....

I watched Hampton play Maryland last night. Hampton was very impressive. They were in the game from start to finish despite their head coach being unfairly ejected in the first half. They have size, speed, and athletic ability. Their only weakness was poor free throw shooting, which cost them the game. I hope Kent was watching. Shape up or it's an 0-2 start .

Dear Doctor,

Therapy for Kent State football fans could be a very lucrative practice. Let me get on the couch.

My University picks a football program to represent us. We can't go pick another... sort of like picking your parents. This representative program has had three winning seasons in the past thrity years. When fans say "Look, it's losng. Of 13 teams, it's 13." The great Daddies say "Yes, but it's very close to winning. Wait until next year. You'll see." Every one of the last three Great Daddies said that. Does this cause trust issues?

Is there a problem if we believe in Santa Claus too long?
What's offered is HOPE that we will be better next year. I certainly share that HOPE. So does everyone else you mentioned. No one knows that our results will be better. Maybe our talent will improve, but so will the rest of the MAC. Miami returns almost everyone, as does Bowling Green, Temple and Buffalo. No one knows who decides not to return or gets injured. So until our football program actually produces results, maybe we should not be talking about what Santa Claus will bring next year. Doesn't that cause anger issues?

What are the long term consequences for telling people they said what they didn't say? No one was comparing basketball to football. We were comparing two coaches on the same day after a loss. One coach giving a fan's critique of a game. The other described how wonderful his team was on the sideline when they were getting kicked around the field. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad they encourage each other. But they should, shouldn't they? (See what happens when you develop trust issues?) Is the "don't say anything at all" advice part of your advice workable for coaches, too?

Quote: It's time for Kent State football to shut up and show up.
Jushua Cribbs

Thank you, Doctor. I feel better now. Please come back. We're going to need more sessions.

FlashFan Wrote:I am a VOLUNTEER and can think whatever I want.

That's funny, about a year ago you told me your name but asked that I keep it to myself because you didn't think those around the University would like that you post on a message board. Reading your comments, I can see why you'd think that.

My question to you--considering you can think whatever you want--why don't you use your real name to share your opinion? I mean, you are entitled to think whatever you want. Let the world know your opinion. I do. I'm not afraid of who reads what I'm really thinking.

It's funny that you took such offense to my comments about the Alumni Association. (Those who sling the most mud cry the loudest when they get dirty).

FlashFan Wrote:Trust me, my views are mild compared to what others with real influence think about this season.

Well, It's a good thing that Mr. Kennedy has a high opinion of what is happening with the football program. Once fans and "people with real influence" get involved, that's when real problems occur. Everyone thinks they are an expert. Your dad coached basketball, so you must be an expert.

FlashFan Wrote:I don't think a winning percentage of .320 is good. You do.

No, as a matter of fact I don't think it's good. My point about the winning percentage is that DM is on pace with his predecessor (who went on to coach in the NFL...so I guess he didn't suck). Worst case scenario, DM finishes with the exact four-year record of Dean Pees.

The coach you are so fond of, and I'm not picking on Jim Christian--I really like him too--he's 89-40 in four years. The four years prior, KSU was 100-31.

That to you is progress?

FlashFan Wrote:If I claimed media credentials and charged people for objective coverage vs. a one sided opinion, that would be a different story, I suppose. But I don't.

Is that supposed to be a dig at me? Is my coverage a one-sided opinion? I mean, I've written nine football game stories and six of them were after losses...I don't think I gave the wrong score or made it seem that Kent State won those games.

If providing "objective" coverage means that I need to make a fool out of myself by pretending that I know more about football than Doug Martin and the rest of his staff, then I'll stick to my one-sided coverage.

I'm just a proud KSU graduate trying to do something positive...and the $106.26 check I received from Rivals.com this month for my site really pays the bills (I spent more than that on the way to Iowa State alone). I have 25 subscribers at $9.99/month. I receive about $4.06 or something like that per subscriber (less than 50-percent). Your dig about me charging money for one-sided coverage doesn't bother me...but I did want you to know how much money we are talking.

FlashFan Wrote:For the record, Doug Martin is a fine man. Who wouldn't want a guy like him to win? But his team has not performed up to expectations, no matter what his friends say.

No, the team didn't play up to expectations. I don't think anybody has said they have. Still, does he deserve the nasty comments you've made about him?

If your answer to that is yes, then there really is nothing more that needs to be said.

FlashFan Wrote:Still, I'm not mad.

By the way, I was watching Channel 5 news yesterday at noon (my wife was a guest on the show...otherwise I wouldn't watch the idiot box) and I saw an announcement for a KSU Alumni Association event...and wouldn't you know it, it was happy hour downtown. Again with the alcohol.

:pbjtime

Kentville Wrote:I watched Hampton play Maryland last night. Hampton was very impressive. They were in the game from start to finish despite their head coach being unfairly ejected in the first half. They have size, speed, and athletic ability. Their only weakness was poor free throw shooting, which cost them the game. I hope Kent was watching. Shape up or it's an 0-2 start .

Hampton will be a good test for the Flashes--win and they pick up a quality W; lose and it will be a disappointing 0-2 start.

Anyone see Youngstown State playing UCLA last night? Seriously, why was UCLA playing YSU?

How do you judge a coach? Wins and losses...thats all. I dont care if Doug Martin is the nicest guy in the world or the biggest SOB I've ever met as long as he WINS FOOTBALL GAMES. At this point he's not winning. Same thing goes for our basketball coach.

I really could care less about what they say to the media, how they treat fans or if they are "gentlemen." I WANT WINS.

Flash83...I want wins too...I don't disagree with you.

At some point, the coaching carousels need to stop and people need to be given a chance to "build" a program.

Firing coaches every five years doesn't allow for that to happen.

Really, at this point, what does Kent State have to lose?

Ron Zook was 4-29 his first two years at Illinois...that certainly didn't show much progress. This year, the Illini are 8-3 and just knocked off the #1 team in the country in their house.

I'm not predicting an upset over the No. 1 team in the country any time soon for KSU, but I do think this team will become a competitive program--and I think that's all we want to see (of course, with an occasional MAC championship tossed in).