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Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
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frogman Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
esayem Wrote:Small southern cities: Washington? Charlotte? Tampa? Bulls fans should be questioning you. Who cares about the city, you are there to watch basketball. The environment travels with the fans. Greensboro is bumping during those days!!! You should go to one before you say such things, and don't try and lie and say you have, because if you did you would not have said that plus, none of your teams would be in the tourney anyway so you wouldn't care.

Man you southern guys kill me. Your idea of big is so small it's crazy. Get out the house once in a while. Yes SMALL SOUTHERN CITIES. Let this link help you.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

I lived in both Atlanta and New York. I think you can fit 5 Atlantas in Brooklyn, The ATL is a strip mall compared to New York. Heck, I thought Philadelphia was a joke and they could swallow the whole south if cities were fishes.

The ACC has sucessfully recruited BB out of New York for years. When I was kid playing BB in the ACc was it. Kenny Anderson out of Brooklyn, Stephon Murbury even Duke's Lou Deng and a lot of other talent went south. I think what Coach K is saying that recruiting out the the north east has just gotten harder for him. He has my sympathies.
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2007 05:15 PM by frogman.)
10-23-2007 05:06 PM
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frankielou1 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
I vote for Washington DC. It is a major destination that currently does not hold any type of tournament/bowl and is within driving distance from many of the ACC schools. I think fans are tired of going to Florida after the ACC championship and bowl season since many of these games are held there.
10-23-2007 06:24 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
SF Husky Wrote:
esayem Wrote:One more thing, you bring up a good point as to why a split should not happen. Wouldn't whatever conference St. John's is in host their tourney at MSG?

MSG would much rather have a basketball tournament with FB schools than Catholic schools. Although GTOWN is making a comeback so Catholic schools plus ND might have some draw. However, a tournament with UCONN, CUSE, PITT, Cincy, UL and WVU has some kick to it.

BTW, BE is a better basketball conference no matter how you want to spin it. By going to 12, ACC is no longer the greatest basketball conference like ACC fans think. Look no further than last year's NCAA for proof.

What? How does us going to 12 differ from you guys going to 16? You added some great teams, but that doesn't make the teams that were allready in the ACC worse.
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2007 07:53 PM by esayem.)
10-23-2007 07:33 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
frogman Wrote:
esayem Wrote:Small southern cities: Washington? Charlotte? Tampa? Bulls fans should be questioning you. Who cares about the city, you are there to watch basketball. The environment travels with the fans. Greensboro is bumping during those days!!! You should go to one before you say such things, and don't try and lie and say you have, because if you did you would not have said that plus, none of your teams would be in the tourney anyway so you wouldn't care.

Man you southern guys kill me. Your idea of big is so small it's crazy. Get out the house once in a while. Yes SMALL SOUTHERN CITIES. Let this link help you.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

I lived in both Atlanta and New York. I think you can fit 5 Atlantas in Brooklyn, The ATL is a strip mall compared to New York. Heck, I thought Philadelphia was a joke and they could swallow the whole south if cities were fishes.

The ACC has sucessfully recruited BB out of New York for years. When I was kid playing BB in the ACc was it. Kenny Anderson out of Brooklyn, Stephon Murbury even Duke's Lou Deng and a lot of other talent went south. I think what Coach K is saying that recruiting out the the north east has just gotten harder for him. He has my sympathies.

Dude! No city can compare to NY by population! You are acting like these cities are inferior bacause they don't jampack people in cubicle apartments.
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2007 07:42 PM by esayem.)
10-23-2007 07:41 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
esayem Wrote:
SF Husky Wrote:
esayem Wrote:One more thing, you bring up a good point as to why a split should not happen. Wouldn't whatever conference St. John's is in host their tourney at MSG?

MSG would much rather have a basketball tournament with FB schools than Catholic schools. Although GTOWN is making a comeback so Catholic schools plus ND might have some draw. However, a tournament with UCONN, CUSE, PITT, Cincy, UL and WVU has some kick to it.

BTW, BE is a better basketball conference no matter how you want to spin it. By going to 12, ACC is no longer the greatest basketball conference like ACC fans think. Look no further than last year's NCAA for proof.

What? How does us going to 12 differ from you guys going to 16? You added some great teams, but that doesn't make the teams that were allready in the ACC worse.

While acknowledging that the ACC plays excellent basketball, this statement is a bit naive.

The ACC going to 12 with BC, Miami, and VT was like the Big East expanding to 13 with Notre Dame, West Virginia, and Rutgers back in the mid-90s. While all three of those BE additions were historically superior to the three programs the ACC just added, the point in time in which the Big East added them, none were particularly strong - thus their additions hurt the Big East perception for almost a decade.

Losing BC, Miami, and VT and gaining Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette, and DePaul, helped the perception of the Big East so much that the addition of South Florida and the continued floundering of Rutgers and St. John's hasn't hurt the league.

Now for the ACC, BC came in on a high note but since the Eagles have not been a traditional bb power, their being the third best team in the ACC has damaged the perception of the league - even though it is highly possible that they might have been a top 4 team in the Big East the past two years as well.

Also, even though true bb fans may know that Seth Greenberg is an excellent coach and that VT has some bb tradition, to have VT come into the league and get wins over Duke (twice) and North Carolina (twice) has also hurt the perception of the strength of ACC basketball.

In their entire tenure in Big East basketball the Hokies were 1-12 against UConn, SU, and Pitt. In their first 3 years in the ACC they are already 5-6 against Duke, UNC, and Maryland.

That hurts the ACC's perception, whether you are willing to admit or not.

Cheers,
Neil
10-23-2007 08:43 PM
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frogman Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
esayem Wrote:Dude! No city can compare to NY by population! You are acting like these cities are inferior bacause they don't jampack people in cubicle apartments.

Its not only the population, it's the economy. With a rich economy the city has more to offer. When you talk about New York it's also public transportation and the mix of people you get.
Art museums like the Guggenheim, the museum of natural history, the Bronx ZOo, Broadway, the Apollo, and of course NYU and Columbia to pick up college chicks- if you still got game. Of course BC girls were the easiest- so I'll be missing that.


Coach K is just seeing the light and the writing onthe walls. Last year Duke should not have even made the NCAA but WTF anyways, they got knocked out in the first round by VCU. SWEETTT.
-
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2007 04:30 AM by frogman.)
10-24-2007 04:23 AM
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MichaelSavage Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
Both Big East and ACC hoops will be just fine.
10-24-2007 07:02 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
frogman Wrote:
esayem Wrote:Small southern cities: Washington? Charlotte? Tampa? Bulls fans should be questioning you. Who cares about the city, you are there to watch basketball. The environment travels with the fans. Greensboro is bumping during those days!!! You should go to one before you say such things, and don't try and lie and say you have, because if you did you would not have said that plus, none of your teams would be in the tourney anyway so you wouldn't care.

Man you southern guys kill me. Your idea of big is so small it's crazy. Get out the house once in a while. Yes SMALL SOUTHERN CITIES. Let this link help you.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

I lived in both Atlanta and New York. I think you can fit 5 Atlantas in Brooklyn, The ATL is a strip mall compared to New York. Heck, I thought Philadelphia was a joke and they could swallow the whole south if cities were fishes.

The ACC has sucessfully recruited BB out of New York for years. When I was kid playing BB in the ACc was it. Kenny Anderson out of Brooklyn, Stephon Murbury even Duke's Lou Deng and a lot of other talent went south. I think what Coach K is saying that recruiting out the the north east has just gotten harder for him. He has my sympathies.

That list of population doesn't tell the whole story--you kinda threw out a red herring. Atlanta might only have 400,000 or so in the actual city but the metro area has about 8 times that. San Antonio is listed as the 7th largest city in the US but in reality it is much smaller metro area. Miami, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Buffalo, etc...are other examples of cities with much larger metro areas than the city proper. Jacksonville, Nashville and Louisville are examples of cities with smaller metro areas than their city population suggests.
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2007 07:48 AM by TexanMark.)
10-24-2007 07:46 AM
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Orange Eagles Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
This is a list of the top TV markets in the country. It gives an accurate look at market sizes. TV markets take into account the actual city PLUS all of its subburbs (For example, Philly includes the city, all of Delaware, all of Southern New Jersey and a large portion of Eastern PA. That is why Philadelphia ranks #4.

Rank Designated Market Area (DMA) TV Households
1 New York 7,391,940
2 Los Angeles 5,647,440
3 Chicago 3,469,110
4 Philadelphia 2,939,950
5 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,435,600
6 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 2,419,440
7 Boston (Manchester) 2,393,960
8 Atlanta 2,310,490
9 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 2,308,290
10 Houston 2,050,550
11 Detroit 1,925,460
12 Phoenix (Prescott) 1,802,550
13 Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 1,783,910
14 Seattle-Tacoma 1,782,040
15 Minneapolis-St. Paul 1,706,740
16 Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 1,536,020
17 Cleveland-Akron (Canton) 1,533,710
18 Denver 1,477,280
19 Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn 1,434,050
20 Sacramnto-Stkton-Modesto 1,391,790
21 St. Louis 1,244,370
22 Pittsburgh 1,158,210
23 Portland, OR 1,150,320
24 Baltimore 1,095,490
25 Charlotte 1,085,640
26 Indianapolis 1,072,090
27 San Diego 1,051,210
28 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle) 1,039,890
29 Hartford & New Haven 1,007,490
30 Nashville 966,170
31 Kansas City 927,060
32 Columbus, OH 905,690
33 Cincinnati 904,340
34 Milwaukee 891,010
35 Salt Lake City 874,650
36 Greenvll-Spart-Ashevll-And 838,270
37 San Antonio 792,440
38 West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce 775,340
39 Grand Rapids-Kalmzoo-B.Crk 739,640
40 Birmingham (Ann, Tusc) 730,430
41 Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York 723,620
42 Norfolk-Portsmth-Newpt Nws 717,440
43 Las Vegas 707,470
44 Albuquerque-Santa Fe 677,740
45 Oklahoma City 676,850
46 Greensboro-H.Point-W.Salem 671,980
47 Memphis 667,890
[b]48 Louisville 657,180
49 Jacksonville 655,470[/b]
50 Buffalo 636,700
51 Austin 635,860
52 Providence-New Bedford 626,800
53 New Orleans 600,150
54 Wilkes Barre-Scranton 592,310
55 Fresno-Visalia 568,730
56 Albany-Schenectady-Troy 553,790
57 Little Rock-Pine Bluff 552,400
58 Knoxville 534,410
59 Richmond-Petersburg 526,760
60 Tulsa 519,820
61 Mobile-Pensacola (Ft Walt) 517,410
62 Dayton 511,220
63 Ft. Myers-Naples 491,760
64 Lexington 490,530
65 Charleston-Huntington 476,680
66 Flint-Saginaw-Bay City 469,980
67 Roanoke-Lynchburg 451,580
68 Tucson (Sierra Vista) 446,550
69 Wichita-Hutchinson Plus 446,520
70 Green Bay-Appleton 439,940
71 Des Moines-Ames 425,760
72 Toledo 424,670
73 Honolulu 424,010
74 Springfield, MO 410,930
75 Omaha 407,700
76 Portland-Auburn 407,560
77 Spokane 403,820
78 Rochester, NY 392,420
79 Paducah-Cape Girard-Harsbg 390,130
80 Syracuse 386,380
http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/nmr_stati..._Ranks.xls

You can see that Philly and New York completely outweigh even Atlanta.

esayem Wrote:Okay, the ACC isn't physical. Wow, ignorance.
Big East has a much tougher and rough style of play than the ACC, in my opinion. There's more grit behind almost every game between every team while in the ACC you only really see that in one game (UNC/Duke).
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2007 03:20 PM by Orange Eagles.)
10-24-2007 10:45 AM
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frogman Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
New York City surburbs like New Rochelle, Yonkers, Long island (Nassau and Suffolk counties), Staten Island nd a few more are probably larger than the surburbs of most cities and are probably not included. But I don't think it matters anyway.

The real issue is what is adequate. Can every body get to the venue easily? Can they all have a good time. New York, as stated earlier, is a hub and won't even blink at an influx of college basketball fans descending on the city. And you can get to New yok from anywhere by public transportation and the city has the most extensive subway system in the world. You can go where ever you want really, really fast and not even have to bring your car.
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2007 02:29 PM by frogman.)
10-24-2007 02:25 PM
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frogman Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
Orange Eagles Wrote:This is a list of the top TV markets in the country. It gives an accurate look at market sizes. TV markets take into account the actual city PLUS all of its subburbs (For example, Philly includes the city, all of Delaware, all of Southern New Jersey and a large portion of Eastern PA. That is why Philadelphia ranks #4.

Rank Designated Market Area (DMA) TV Households
1 New York 7,391,940
2 Los Angeles 5,647,440
3 Chicago 3,469,110
4 Philadelphia 2,939,950
5 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,435,600
6 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 2,419,440
7 Boston (Manchester) 2,393,960
8 Atlanta 2,310,490
9 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 2,308,290
10 Houston 2,050,550


since we're talking BB, let's not forget that DePaul is in Chicago (#3) and Marquette is in Milwaukee (34). I noticed those cities were not highlighted. Villanove put the BE in Phil (#4) and Georgetown has D.C. buzzing again. Also, if you are thinking maryland they would be Baltimore (#24) and not DC. Three of the top four markets belong to the current BE. So where's the money?
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2007 02:50 PM by frogman.)
10-24-2007 02:38 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
Yes, Seth Greenberg is the man. When FSU was added people said that would bring the hoops down. More than likely the ACC elevates the newcomers hoop game, but many just see the traditional powers lose, and then say they are not as good as days of yor.
10-24-2007 02:52 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
esayem Wrote:Yes, Seth Greenberg is the man. When FSU was added people said that would bring the hoops down. More than likely the ACC elevates the newcomers hoop game, but many just see the traditional powers lose, and then say they are not as good as days of yor.


I doubt very seriously that the acc was able to elevate VT, Miami and BC hoops over the BE. Neither did the acc elevate their gridiron. Keep in mind that VT and Miami, which finished near the bottom of the BE almost every year, and particularly their last year in the BE. Yet these two below mediocre programs almost challenged for the Acc title their first year in the acc. Were these programs hoops elevated that quickly, or can we just say that they had an easier time being competitive in the acc? When these 2 programs first entered the BE, it took them 2 or 3 years before they won a game in the BE.
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2007 03:07 PM by cuseroc.)
10-24-2007 03:05 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
frogman Wrote:since we're talking BB, let's not forget that DePaul is in Chicago (#3) and Marquette is in Milwaukee (34). I noticed those cities were not highlighted. Villanove put the BE in Phil (#4) and Georgetown has D.C. buzzing again. Also, if you are thinking maryland they would be Baltimore (#24) and not DC. Three of the top four markets belong to the current BE. So where's the money?

Good call, I was thinking that, but for some reason didn't bold those cities. I fixed it.
10-24-2007 03:22 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
esayem Wrote:Yes, Seth Greenberg is the man. When FSU was added people said that would bring the hoops down. More than likely the ACC elevates the newcomers hoop game, but many just see the traditional powers lose, and then say they are not as good as days of yor.


There is some revisionist thinking---wow, join the ACC and overnight you'll challenge the best despite getting biotch slapped in the Big East the year prior 01-wingedeagle
10-24-2007 03:33 PM
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frogman Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
Just this one comment on the impending split. If the all sports schools lose Madison Square Garden, they can probalby hold their BB tournament in the Meadowlands Arena where the N.J. Nets play. This is a short hop outside of New York city and would be practically the same as coming to New York. Rutgers BB should be able to sure up that arena for the all sports schools (The Rutgers BB womens that is :)


It certainly is better than having to go to Greensboro.
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2007 03:55 PM by frogman.)
10-24-2007 03:53 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
esayem Wrote:True, only LA can compare to NY, but the city should not make the tourney.

Hmmmm... Isn't Chicago the "second city"?
10-24-2007 05:22 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
omnicarrier Wrote:I think it should be in Greensboro every year. But the downside to the ACC tournament is that when both Duke and UNC don't make it to the Final Four of that tournament, it loses that enthusiasm you talk about rather quickly.

Now, of course, excellent basketball is usually still being played, but ACC tourney fans tend to be more 'wine and cheese' type fans, especially since the tourney tickets are basically reserved for their 'big boosters' and their families and not as much for the rowdy students who make regular season ACC games much more exciting. When it leaves Greensboro this is much more noticeable as seen when it was in Tampa last year.

Luckily, for the most part, Duke and UNC tend to make the Final Four of the ACC tourney in most years, but even BC players last year in Tampa commented about the totally different atmosphere between the ACC tourney crowds and the more rowdy MSG crowds.

Of course beer being sold at MSG helps. 03-wink

Does the ACC tournament even permit beer sales?

Cheers,
Neil

Neil,

Don't discount NC State. They have significant fans and can "carry" the ACC Tournament, too.
10-24-2007 05:24 PM
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Post: #59
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
frogman Wrote:Just this one comment on the impending split. If the all sports schools lose Madison Square Garden, they can probalby hold their BB tournament in the Meadowlands Arena where the N.J. Nets play.

If the league splits it will be the football 8 that hold their basketball tournament in MSG. The non-football 8 will need a new venue, unless they want to hold it a week earlier.
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Post: #60
RE: Duke's Coach K " The Big East Has A Huge Advantage"
CollegeCard Wrote:
frogman Wrote:Just this one comment on the impending split. If the all sports schools lose Madison Square Garden, they can probalby hold their BB tournament in the Meadowlands Arena where the N.J. Nets play.

If the league splits it will be the football 8 that hold their basketball tournament in MSG. The non-football 8 will need a new venue, unless they want to hold it a week earlier.

The bb schools would certainly have a variety of venues to choose from - including the Verizon Center, the Wachovia Center, and the Rock (the Prudential Center).

Cheers,
Neil
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2007 06:19 PM by omniorange.)
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