I don't mean this to be a shot against the MAC and CUSA, but looking at what's going on in those 2 leagues the last couple years, there is no question that both are struggling. The days of Big Ben at Miami U and MAC teams making the Top 25 seem to be long gone, and CUSA is 2-21 against BCS teams this year.

One bad year is understandable, but the MAC and CUSA both struggled last year as well.

We all know success comes in cycles, and it could simply be a down period. But I'm wondering if the fact that teams like USF, UC, UL and Rutgers are suddenly on the national radar results in solid recruits who may have gone to CUSA or MAC schools now heading to BE schools.

I'm not sure if the current BE configuration has been around long enough to impact recruiting.... but isn't it odd that the dramatic improvement in the BE seems to be timed alongside declines by CUSA and the MAC. Is it coincidence?

I like MAC and CUSA football and I think it's exciting when non-BCS teams do well against the BCS, I usually cheer for the underdog (except when playing BE teams, of course). The MWC and WAC seem to be as strong - if not stronger - than ever, so I don't think it's ALL non-BCS leagues struggling..

I dunno, just some thoughts. I hope both the MAC and CUSA get things turned around.

CUSA lost UL, UC, USF, and TCU. That takes a while to come back from, if it's even possible to do.

wvucrazed Wrote:I don't mean this to be a shot against the MAC and CUSA, but looking at what's going on in those 2 leagues the last couple years, there is no question that both are struggling. The days of Big Ben at Miami U and MAC teams making the Top 25 seem to be long gone, and CUSA is 2-21 against BCS teams this year.

Well, the decline in C-USA was predictable with UL, TCU, UC, and even USF leaving that league.

And as mentioned here by a few posters over the past two years and mentioned last night on national TV during the Cincinnati/Rutgers game, the Bearcats moving to a BCS league has impacted recruitment at some MAC schools.

Quote:We all know success comes in cycles, and it could simply be a down period. But I'm wondering if the fact that teams like USF, UC, UL and Rutgers are suddenly on the national radar results in solid recruits who may have gone to CUSA or MAC schools now heading to BE schools.

I think this is definitely true of UC. Before, if an Ohio recruit didn't get a tOSU offer, or a high level Big Ten school offer, there was nothing to really distinguish Cincinnati from Miami-Ohio, Ohio, Bowling Green, or any other MAC school. With the Bearcats entry into the Big East, a BCS conference, they now have that separation that was lacking before. It was one of the reasons why I was so high on Cincinnati's entry into the Big East back in the Fall of 2003.

However, when they started to achieve that separation and the fans were still not responding (last year), I was disappointed and thought they might never make it.

I am glad they are beginning to respond and hope (for their sake and for the Big East's) that Brian Kelly sticks around at least for another five years.

As for the others you mention, I don't think USF, UL, and Rutgers are necessarily getting recruits that would have gone to C-USA or MAC schools before.

I think the success of Rutgers (assuming their recruiting success continues) and BC could impact recruiting at Syracuse and Connecticut respectively.

I also think that the success of Kentucky (if it continues) and to a lesser extent USF, could impact Louisville's recruiting.

The question that remains to be seen is if the success of USF will help other Big East programs continue a Florida pipeline or not?

Cheers,
Neil

Also, Cincinnati, South Florida and Rutgers are taking Top 25 votes that normally a team like the MAC or C-USA would take. And they have those slots because they're taking away the talent that the MAC and C-USA were stealing.

omnicarrier Wrote:Before, if an Ohio recruit didn't get a tOSU offer, or a high level Big Ten school offer, there was nothing to really distinguish Cincinnati from Miami-Ohio, Ohio, Bowling Green, or any other MAC school.

Actually there was something that distinguished us in a bad way. MAC schools have a strong reputation as a JV version of the B10. I think we lost a lot of recruits to MAC schools most likely because of the name recognition of those schools as opposed to the teams we were competing against in conference, like UAB and Tulane. Now we are significantly better than those teams because of our BCS affiliation plus our facilities upgrades.

RealDeal Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:Before, if an Ohio recruit didn't get a tOSU offer, or a high level Big Ten school offer, there was nothing to really distinguish Cincinnati from Miami-Ohio, Ohio, Bowling Green, or any other MAC school.

Actually there was something that distinguished us in a bad way. MAC schools have a strong reputation as a JV version of the B10. I think we lost a lot of recruits to MAC schools most likely because of the name recognition of those schools as opposed to the teams we were competing against in conference, like UAB and Tulane. Now we are significantly better than those teams because of our BCS affiliation plus our facilities upgrades.

Good point. And of course, the MAC got the JV B10 label because of the number of contests that are played between the two leagues.

Cheers,
Neil

It's one of two things...

1. The advantages of the "BCS" label is causing the divided between "BCS" and "non-BCS" schools to grow wider and wider.

2. It's a down period in an up an down cycle.

Only time will tell which it is.

3601 Wrote:It's one of two things...

1. The advantages of the "BCS" label is causing the divided between "BCS" and "non-BCS" schools to grow wider and wider.

2. It's a down period in an up an down cycle.

Only time will tell which it is.

It's more likely a combination of the two, but I see the advantages of the BCS label as being more responsible than the cyclical nature of the sport.

Of course, considering the way things are going this year, if it is truly more the latter than the former, this is definitely not the year a non-BCS conference wants to be in a 'down' cycle.

Cheers,
Neil

3601 Wrote:It's one of two things...

1. The advantages of the "BCS" label is causing the divided between "BCS" and "non-BCS" schools to grow wider and wider.

2. It's a down period in an up an down cycle.

Only time will tell which it is.

Normally I agree, but Marshall and Memphis' last recruiting classes were actually ranked higher then UC's. The increased television exposure and markets that the Big East presents also helps UC, USF and Louisville.

wvucrazed Wrote:I don't mean this to be a shot against the MAC and CUSA, but looking at what's going on in those 2 leagues the last couple years, there is no question that both are struggling. The days of Big Ben at Miami U and MAC teams making the Top 25 seem to be long gone, and CUSA is 2-21 against BCS teams this year.

One bad year is understandable, but the MAC and CUSA both struggled last year as well.

We all know success comes in cycles, and it could simply be a down period. But I'm wondering if the fact that teams like USF, UC, UL and Rutgers are suddenly on the national radar results in solid recruits who may have gone to CUSA or MAC schools now heading to BE schools.

I'm not sure if the current BE configuration has been around long enough to impact recruiting.... but isn't it odd that the dramatic improvement in the BE seems to be timed alongside declines by CUSA and the MAC. Is it coincidence?

I like MAC and CUSA football and I think it's exciting when non-BCS teams do well against the BCS, I usually cheer for the underdog (except when playing BE teams, of course). The MWC and WAC seem to be as strong - if not stronger - than ever, so I don't think it's ALL non-BCS leagues struggling..

I dunno, just some thoughts. I hope both the MAC and CUSA get things turned around.

I can't speak for all teams in The Big East, the MAC & CUSA, but some of it is definitely cyclical.

For example:

One football magazine that has a better track record of pre-season predictions is the Phil Steele football publications. One of the tools he uses to project teams chances for success is a team experience rating. The formula uses a sliding scale to apportion points based on the number of starters and backups who are seniors, juniors etc.

Of the 120 teams in (formerly) I-A, Cincinnati is the third highest (oldest). It is not a coincidence that this year is the best UC team I have ever seen.

By contrast, Miami University has the third youngest team. Quite simply redshirt and true freshman don't win a lot of games.

I think the BE probably has an influence as far as recruiting goes mainly over the MAC since there is an overlap in recruiting territories. There is so much talent in Florida, I don't see USF hurting UCF. I think SoMiss has probably been hurt by UAB more than any BE school. UAB is probably getting some players in the Deep South that would have normally gone to SoMiss. From an attendence point of view ECU & UCF are doing real well. I think if everything stays on it's current projection, you will see my Pirates and/or UCF becoming a top 25 program maybe as early as next year.

CUSA has some teams that will be back. The disruption of the conference realignments is about over, and a little stability will do wonders.

Of course with UC and the second worse attendance in a bc$ league will do wonders for recruiting.

rodtheman Wrote:Of course with UC and the second worse attendance in a bc$ league will do wonders for recruiting.

Aside from the fact that your sentence makes no sense, would you like some cheese with that whine?

rodtheman Wrote:CUSA has some teams that will be back. The disruption of the conference realignments is about over, and a little stability will do wonders.

Of course with UC and the second worse attendance in a bc$ league will do wonders for recruiting.

Somehow UC has recruited alright in the past... take a look at the team this year. Now add in the fact that UC has sold out the rest of the season more or less (only seats left are for UConn, and there are less than 3K seats left now) and I would say that UCs recruiting will be just fine.

I believe Louv got couple kids from Ohio. Besides the fact rich get richer, MAC & C-USA both took step back.

I can understand why some may feel this way. I don't think it has to be this way.

When we review ECU at the time Louisville, Cincinnati, South Florida, and TCU left, we were at the lowest point our program could go. We were, seriously, one of the worst team in history (as bad as Duke last year or all those bad Northwestern teams in the 70s).

I see our program on a up-swing. We are still an average program but... things are improving. I would not be surprised to see ECU as a top 25 program the next few years.

chess Wrote:I can understand why some may feel this way. I don't think it has to be this way.

When we review ECU at the time Louisville, Cincinnati, South Florida, and TCU left, we were at the lowest point our program could go. We were, seriously, one of the worst team in history (as bad as Duke last year or all those bad Northwestern teams in the 70s).

I see our program on a up-swing. We are still an average program but... things are improving. I would not be surprised to see ECU as a top 25 program the next few years.

I won't pretend to know ECU's talent-level, but I do know their OOC schedule and I know how poll voters vote. And considering the tough OOC schedule the Pirates have, it will take beating VT or WVU and running the table through C-USA for the Pirates to get to the Top 25.

In other words, while it only takes a 9-3 record for BCS conference teams to finish in the Top 25, it takes a 10-2 record with a high profile win for non-auto-bid conference teams to make it into the Top 25.

If the Pirates make it into the Top 25 in a final regular season poll, they will definitely have earned it.

Cheers,
Neil

Whatever successes or failures CUSA teams have, it is all our own. BE has nothig to do with it. It is like saying Texas Tech is up because Arizona is down. For CUSA/West teams, Texas U and Okla U are going to get whoever they want. The key for CUSA/West schools is to get the many, many remaining good athletes that are being recruited by primarily other Big 12 north schools like Kansas or Missouri. The Big Ten and SEC schools have not been able to come into Texas and Oklahoma as automatically as they did in the past and take a bunch of recruits anymore. I think schools like Okla State and Texas Tech have hurt those two conferences the most but CUSA/West is jumping in there also. Arkansas just has not been able to recruit Texas like they used to in their old SWC days.

For CUSA as I watch the conference, I think it is a question of getting our football facilities together and now we have some bowls and some tv exposure. I think it is this area--facilities, bowls, and tv exposure-that will determine CUSA's future and not what BE does....the only two CUSA teams in BE territory are Marshall and UCF....with UCF having to fight ACC and SE more as a factor than BE. And, last year, it is my understanding Marshall and UCF enjoyed very fine recruiting seasons.

Finally, you can have all the finest facilities in the world, great tv and bowls....but the most basic requirement is a good coach. I think a lot of BE's success last season and this season is BE has some very good coaches. Where you don't have a coach (Louisiville (?), Syracuse), you have nothing. I think CUSA has pulled in some good football coaches and good basketball coaches. UTEP, Houston, Tulsa, ECU, UCF....CUSA has made many good coaching hires. I expect Memphis and SMU will follow upon completion of this season.

Yes, CUSA is still struggling this season with many of its football programs but I think this is mostly due to past bad coaches. The new coaches hired are doing good jobs but it is going to take some time to crawl back.

rodtheman Wrote:CUSA has some teams that will be back. The disruption of the conference realignments is about over, and a little stability will do wonders.

Of course with UC and the second worse attendance in a bc$ league will do wonders for recruiting.

Huh?

mlb Wrote:

rodtheman Wrote:CUSA has some teams that will be back. The disruption of the conference realignments is about over, and a little stability will do wonders.

Of course with UC and the second worse attendance in a bc$ league will do wonders for recruiting.

Somehow UC has recruited alright in the past... take a look at the team this year. Now add in the fact that UC has sold out the rest of the season more or less (only seats left are for UConn, and there are less than 3K seats left now) and I would say that UCs recruiting will be just fine.

lol, exactly mlb. UC's attendance average at the end of the year will be 31,000 per game. And that is after a slow start (SEMS and Oregon State not drawing well). But I guess we should be easy on rodtheman, it's not easy watching someone succeed while you're team is spinning its wheels.