mattsarz Wrote:If you consider right now, this very second, football only, I think its TCU. For most of its history, BYU has not associated itself with BCS programs, preferring to stay within the confines of the group of six schools (CSU, Utah, Air Force, Wyoming, New Mexico and BYU) that have for most of their history never been top shelf programs. Where TCU, as part of the SWC, had that Cotton Bowl tie-in, had five BCS level programs in their schedules regularly (Arkansas, Texas, A&M, Texas Tech and Baylor) and, after getting dumped to the non-AQ level, became, arguably, better than they were through much of their stay in the SWC and a school that is better than 80% of the BCS schools in football.

Preferring?

Well...maybe BYU "prefers" to be in the Big 10?

Maybe BYU "prefers" to be in the Pac-10?

I'm just guessing...that BYU might "prefer" to be associated with BCS Teams...if they had their way.

TCU was in a good all Texas Conference (plus Texarkana Razorbacks) at one time in their history...but obviously got left behind at the alter when the Big 12 was formed.

In regards to BYU...they sure seem to play National BCS Teams every chance they get.

Here's a list of the BCS teams BYU played during the REGULAR season since 2000:

Florida State-ACC
Virginia: (2) ACC First home-home game in '99
Mississippi State: (2 games) SEC
Syracuse: (2) Big East
Cal: (2) Pac-10 First game was at Provo in '99
Ga Tech: (2) ACC
Southern Cal: (2) Pac-10
Stanford: (2) Pac-10
Notre Dame: (3) Independent
Boston College: (2) Big East
Arizona: Pac-10

That's not a bad NATIONAL non-conf schedule...with teams from the East Coast (ACC and Big East), the South (SEC), Midwest Grand Daddy (Notre Dame) and of course the West Coast (Pac-10).

BYU can't obviously control their conf-schedule...but they certainly do a good job at filling in some nice "BCS National" match-ups.

Nice discussion:

If the BCS was holding a draft today (I think these teams would be in the first round):

BYU, Utah, Memphis, ECU, USM, Boise, Hawaii, UCF

TexanMark Wrote:Nice discussion:

If the BCS was holding a draft today (I think these teams would be in the first round):

BYU, Utah, Memphis, ECU, USM, Boise, Hawaii, UCF

I do think TCU would get selected before a few schools on that list.

Not to beat a deadhorse but I'd say BYU, Utah, Boise State, TCU, Memphis, ECU, UCF, Hawaii, Fresno State, Houston, Southern Miss, Tulane.

Who doesn't deserve to be in the BCS that's in it is a good question too. I'd say Duke, Northwestern, Indiana, Baylor, Kansas, Iowa State.

MichaelSavage Wrote:

TexanMark Wrote:Nice discussion:

If the BCS was holding a draft today (I think these teams would be in the first round):

BYU, Utah, Memphis, ECU, USM, Boise, Hawaii, UCF

I do think TCU would get selected before a few schools on that list.

Duuuuh Hitting my head on desk--yup insert TCU subtract Hawaii

BYU, TCU, Hawaii, Army, Navy, Air Froce.

BYU-As the flagship of Mormon nation.

TCU-A Dallas/Ft.Worth team market should be in the BCS.

Hawaii-National program with a big following

Army/Navy/Airforce-Federal Academies

CatsClaw Wrote:

ECU-DMB Fanatic Wrote:I would have to agree with BYU but I also think you have to give a nod to Southern Miss, they have been a very consistent program over the years.

Do they have strong Olympic/non-revenue sports? I think they do, I can't remember, but if they do I agree. They also had solid basketball for a few years, including sharing the C-USA title with UC one year. ECU also could make a case. Really, ECU's only weakness is a weak basketball team, they have good basketball attendance all things considered.

BYU was the highest rated non-BCS football playing school in the directors cup this year (which is a ranking of overall athletic programs based on on-field/on-court/on-whatever performance. I think BYU was somewhere between 22-28. TCU was the second highest rated non-BCS football school at #52. Of course these are rated out of all 330+ D-1 NCAA programs.

I think based on competitiveness and fan support across the entire athletic department, BYU is the clear cut #1 choice. They have a large football stadium for non-BCS and have the highest average attendance for non-BCS. They also have a 22,000+ seat basketball arena, a nice baseball stadium, and a world class track facility.

What about Hawaii? :boat:

Go Rainbows!!! :titanic:

BYU
Utah
UCF
ECU
Southern Miss
Marshall
Houston
UTEP
Memphis
Boise State
Hawaii
Fresno State
TCU
SMU


Those are a few that come to mind....

http://www.midmajority.com/info.php?a=schools-budget

Here are the highest 10 non-BCS athletic budgets in 2006 and where they rank out of all 330+ D-1 NCAA schools. Of course the non-BCS schools could afford to have a bit bigger budgets if they enjoyed the higher revenues of BCS membership.

57. TCU 37,111,424
62. SMU 32,659,232
64. SDSU 30,446,090
65. BYU 30,291,196
69. Memphis 27,155,528
70. Rice 26,259,318
71. Houston 25,995,498
72. Temple 25,819,092
74. UCF 25,343,116
75. New Mexico 24,997,808

To compare
1. Ohio State 101,804,848
5. Penn State 70,096,024
10. Oklahoma 64,322,580
15. Alabama 61,534,688
20. Kentucky 57,137,604
25. South Carolina 53,098,348
35. Arizona State 46,557,928
45. Miami (FL) 41,612,312
55. Florida State 37,928,648

Lowest BCS member (excluding Big East w/o d-1a football)
78. South Florida 24,340,060

Lowest d-1a football member
187. Louisiana Tech 10,075,316

Lowest
331. Wofford 2,240,193 (that is pretty small, especially since they field football)

Nice budget info.

Looking at the numbers it would appear the Big Ten should be looking at Nebraska and its 63 million dollar budget over the smaller budgets of Notre Dame, Missouri, Rutgers, and Syracuse.

wvucrazed Wrote:BYU and Utah are really the only ones with a legit gripe, IMHO.

+1

HiddenDragon Wrote:I don't know if this is true or not but isn't BYU the only non-BCS program that has actually won a legit national championship?

AP national championships (1936 was the first year they crowned an AP champion):

http://www.soonerstats.com/football/polls/ap/champs.cfm

Teams not in AQ conferences to win a national championship (excludes ND):
Army- 1945-46
BYU- 1984
TCU-1938

nfm

chess Wrote:

DFW HOYA Wrote:In 1984, SMU was a two time SWC champion with a combined mark of 23-2-1 over two seasons, defeated Pitt and Notre Dame in consecutive season bowls and averaged over 40,000 a game at Texas Stadium.

Two years later, they were the first I-A school in modern times to be barred from regular season play. They have not posted a winning season since. And if the Big 12 had formed ten years earlier, Baylor surely wouldn't be there.

Look a little deeper into SMU's history. The did not have a history of winning before they started buying their players.

I guess it depends on what you consider a history of winning. I am going to assume that SMU started buying players around 1980. So they had 7 top 25 finishes before 1980, but none between 1968 and 1980. Not great, but it does show previous success.

7 Bowl games before 1980 (1 Rose, 3 Cotton)
8 Conference titles before 1980
SMU claims a 1935 national title along with LSU, TCU, Princeton, and Minnesota
1948 Heisman Trophy Winner (Doak Walker)
Other greats including Kyle Rote (Heisman runner up), Don Meredith (Heisman finalist and Cowboy great)

IMO this shows that SMU had enjoyed a good deal of football success before 1980. When you compare this to what some BCS conference schools have accomplished on the field, then SMU has a case (although not nearly the strongest case) for BCS inclusion based on history.

I for one really hope that SMU can get the program headed in the right direction again. They were 6-6 last season and return 18 starters this year, so anything less than a bowl game would be dissapointing.

tcufrog86 Wrote:http://www.midmajority.com/info.php?a=schools-budget

Here are the highest 10 non-BCS athletic budgets in 2006 and where they rank out of all 330+ D-1 NCAA schools. Of course the non-BCS schools could afford to have a bit bigger budgets if they enjoyed the higher revenues of BCS membership.

57. TCU 37,111,424
62. SMU 32,659,232
64. SDSU 30,446,090
65. BYU 30,291,196
69. Memphis 27,155,528
70. Rice 26,259,318
71. Houston 25,995,498
72. Temple 25,819,092
74. UCF 25,343,116
75. New Mexico 24,997,808

To compare
1. Ohio State 101,804,848
5. Penn State 70,096,024
10. Oklahoma 64,322,580
15. Alabama 61,534,688
20. Kentucky 57,137,604
25. South Carolina 53,098,348
35. Arizona State 46,557,928
45. Miami (FL) 41,612,312
55. Florida State 37,928,648

Lowest BCS member (excluding Big East w/o d-1a football)
78. South Florida 24,340,060

Lowest d-1a football member
187. Louisiana Tech 10,075,316

Lowest
331. Wofford 2,240,193 (that is pretty small, especially since they field football)

UCF's budget is between 30-33 million this year. That puts us ahead of some in the BCS without the BCS revenue. I didn't realize that SMU and TCU's budget was so high.

My top five, in order:

1. BYU
2. Southern Miss
3. Boise State
4. Utah
5. TCU

BYU is a no brainer. Look at their fan support. History. Utah is probably next. They have great facilities. The football program is solid. Hawaii would be my third selection. Pretty good fan support, although, I think they would struggle in say, the PAC 10.

Some of the names mentioned would be the bottom of the barrel in most BCS conferences. USM? My gosh, they average 25,000 fans. Good for a long time? I believe that they have beaten something like 2 out of conference ranked schools in their history (FSU and Alabama). They beat FSU once, when ranked, and Bama a couple of times. That's it. I don't see them being any better than the other Mississippi schools in the SEC, bringing up the rear most years.

TCU? They have put together a nice run, but only after the competition got much, much easier. They spent 30-40 years struggling to compete in the Southwest. Don't you think they would become, say Baylor, if they were in the Big 12?

ECU had a couple of decent years and draw okay, but I can't say they are dominating the competition on their level. To me, they are an east coast version of Fresno. SMU? They can't compete in CUSA, much less on a higher level. I would view them as another Duke if they joined a BCS league. Boise has a strong program, but again, could they do it against much better competition. I am not convinced. I am thinking they would be similar to Oregon State. Nice program at times, but lots of bad years in between.

I think the two teams that could compete, with a better run program, are Memphis and Houston. They have the potential to succeed build a program like Louisville. However, they don't seem to have the vision or organization that Louisville does. Houston also has no fans. However, if they could win on a high level, they could spark some interest.

Doesn't ECU have more wins over BCS schools than any other non-BCS school in the country? I know UCF has only 1...not sure about the others.

Quote:ECU had a couple of decent years and draw okay, but I can't say they are dominating the competition on their level. To me, they are an east coast version of Fresno. SMU? They can't compete in CUSA, much less on a higher level. I would view them as another Duke if they joined a BCS league.

13 Bowl games. A top 10 finish. Average over 37,000 last year. Will average nearly 43,000 this year. More wins over BCS opponents than any other "non-BCS". 2-0 vs the ACC last season.

DUKE!!??

Stop looking foolish!