Please, this is just a hypothecial question. So do not over re-act. I just saw where James Madison is expanding their stadium and exploring a move to the D1A. Virginia is in the Big East Foot print. What do you think?

JMU would make a good travel partner for ECU.

JMU could go 1-A with the CAA someday but for the Big East it would be stupid.

The Big East is populated almost exclusively with Urban schools, the excecpt is WVU and UConn two flagship schools for their respective states.

In Virginia the flagship schools are VT, UVa, and William & Mary. JMU is more of a MAC/Sun Belt/CUSA type school focused on the undergraduate.

The BE has already been in the business of developing I-AA programs and bringing them up to I-A. It cannot afford to keep doing so (and I include 'Nova in that argument too). Next additions need to be well-established I-A programs.

BJUnklFkr Wrote:The BE has already been in the business of developing I-AA programs and bringing them up to I-A. It cannot afford to keep doing so (and I include 'Nova in that argument too). Next additions need to be well-established I-A programs.

Gee, thanks for the endorsement!

As to JMU, no.

The NCAA has frozen any moves between classifications too. That puts a big damper on any ideas of expansion from any 1-AA program.

bitcruncher Wrote:The NCAA has frozen any moves between classifications too. That puts a big damper on any ideas of expansion from any 1-AA program.

I'm not so sure it doesn't simply ratchet things up by those (state) programs looking to make a splash when the doors open in 2011. This unexpectedly gives the James Madisons, Western Kentuckys, Cal-State Sacramentos and Appalachian States of the world the justification to begin a plan to be immediately ready for I-A when the time is right.

I-A seems unconsciously hostile to supporting emerging private school programs in I-A. Anyone want to guess the last private school to actually join I-A?

DFW HOYA Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:The NCAA has frozen any moves between classifications too. That puts a big damper on any ideas of expansion from any 1-AA program.

I'm not so sure it doesn't simply ratchet things up by those (state) programs looking to make a splash when the doors open in 2011. This unexpectedly gives the James Madisons, Western Kentuckys, Cal-State Sacramentos and Appalachian States of the world the justification to begin a plan to be immediately ready for I-A when the time is right.

I-A seems unconsciously hostile to supporting emerging private school programs in I-A. Anyone want to guess the last private school to actually join I-A?

Ah, but when those doors re-open, I expect to see more stringent standards for what constitutes Division 1 football, both in terms of Bowl Sub-Division and Championship Sub-Division.

Cheers,
Neil

omnicarrier Wrote:Ah, but when those doors re-open, I expect to see more stringent standards for what constitutes Division 1 football, both in terms of Bowl Sub-Division and Championship Sub-Division.

Any suggestions for both?

omnicarrier Wrote:

DFW HOYA Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:The NCAA has frozen any moves between classifications too. That puts a big damper on any ideas of expansion from any 1-AA program.

I'm not so sure it doesn't simply ratchet things up by those (state) programs looking to make a splash when the doors open in 2011. This unexpectedly gives the James Madisons, Western Kentuckys, Cal-State Sacramentos and Appalachian States of the world the justification to begin a plan to be immediately ready for I-A when the time is right.

I-A seems unconsciously hostile to supporting emerging private school programs in I-A. Anyone want to guess the last private school to actually join I-A?

Ah, but when those doors re-open, I expect to see more stringent standards for what constitutes Division 1 football, both in terms of Bowl Sub-Division and Championship Sub-Division.

Cheers,
Neil

You really need to clarify those statements as to why. It’s not like there are a lot of reclassification to division 1A football. You already need 4 years to make transition to division 1.

Bowl Sub-Division and Championship Sub-Division are stupid names. The only clear line of demarcation is to have two NCAA tournaments, one for each classification of Division 1. Then there is no confusion.

SO#1 Wrote:Bowl Sub-Division and Championship Sub-Division are stupid names. The only clear line of demarcation is to have two NCAA tournaments, one for each classification of Division 1. Then there is no confusion.

I-AA already has a tournament (playoff). I don't think I-A wants that.

SO#1 Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

DFW HOYA Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:The NCAA has frozen any moves between classifications too. That puts a big damper on any ideas of expansion from any 1-AA program.

I'm not so sure it doesn't simply ratchet things up by those (state) programs looking to make a splash when the doors open in 2011. This unexpectedly gives the James Madisons, Western Kentuckys, Cal-State Sacramentos and Appalachian States of the world the justification to begin a plan to be immediately ready for I-A when the time is right.

I-A seems unconsciously hostile to supporting emerging private school programs in I-A. Anyone want to guess the last private school to actually join I-A?

Ah, but when those doors re-open, I expect to see more stringent standards for what constitutes Division 1 football, both in terms of Bowl Sub-Division and Championship Sub-Division.

Cheers,
Neil

You really need to clarify those statements as to why. It’s not like there are a lot of reclassification to division 1A football. You already need 4 years to make transition to division 1.

Bowl Sub-Division and Championship Sub-Division are stupid names. The only clear line of demarcation is to have two NCAA tournaments, one for each classification of Division 1. Then there is no confusion.

How quickly people forget.

Back in 2001, the following was adopted by the NCAAs:

The Oversight Committee discussed recommendations it had asked the Division I Membership Subcommittee to provide. Those recommendations for membership are that a I-A institution:


* Provide an average of 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of full football grants-in-aid per year (76.5 is 90 percent of the current 85 grants-in-aid limit in football) over a two-year rolling period.

* Annually play a minimum of five regular season home contests against Division I-A opponents. A specific definition of home contest will be included in proposed legislation consistent with current bylaw language.

* Sponsor a minimum of 16 sports, with at least six for men and at least eight for women.

* Annually offer a minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs.

* Annually demonstrate an average attendance of 15,000 for five home games against Division I-A opponents.

* Eliminate all waivers for membership criteria.

The Oversight Committee concurred with the recommendations of the Membership Subcommittee with one exception. It did not endorse an expenditure of $4 million for athletics grants-in-aid as an alternative for meeting the minimum requirements, preferring only the 200 grants standard.

The Oversight Committee recommended that the effective date of the new standards be August 1, 2004. The group also will ask the Board of Directors to put in place a moratorium on accepting applications for I-A membership until new criteria are adopted.

"Our belief is that any member school that decides to join I-A should do so under new membership criteria rather than according to our current standards," said Charles Wethington, chair of the committee and president emeritus of the University of Kentucky.

The Oversight Committee's recommendations will be reported to the Board of Directors at its Aug. 9 meeting. Appropriate legislative proposals are expected to be considered by the Division I Management Council in October. The Management Council also heard the Membership Subcommittee's report during its July meeting.

"It's time for our membership to formally begin considering the criteria for Division I-A membership, so it's important that proposals be developed for our governance structure to review as soon as possible," said Wethington.

The above was set to begin with the 2004 season.

Attached please find a USA-Today article focusing mainly on the attendance criteria:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/f...ance_x.htm

Here is another article two years later:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/f...woes_x.htm

Letters to teams not making the attendance criteria were even sent out by the NCAAs reminding them that their future in 1-A was in jeopardy.

What stopped it from happening? The Big Boys realized that they were going to lose out on some of their money games/opponents, the move to 12 regular season games, and the allowing of 1-AA game to count toward bowl eligibility every year.

As a result, a moratorium on the attendance criteria was declared to determine how the move to 12 regular season games impacts attendance.

So don't be surprised to see the attendance criteria come back, as well as some others including the increase in number of sponsored sports, etc.

Cheers,
Neil

This could be a fun conference to watch in say, 8 years:

East Carolina
Marshall
JMU
Georgia State
Charlotte
UAB
Memphis
UCF

Add JMU to the list of "candidates" that I've seen suggested over here for the 9th member.

Army
Boston College
Buffalo
Central Florida
Delaware
East Carolina
Florida Atlantic
Fresno State (yes, someon actually mentioned it)
George Mason
Gerorgetown
Holy Cross
James Madison
Marshall
Maryland
UMass
Memphis
Navy
Notre Dame
Penn State
Rhode Island
Southern Miss
Temple
UAB
Villanova
Virgina Tech

Who am I forgetting?

3601 Wrote:Who am I forgetting?

Duke? :)

3601 Wrote:Add JMU to the list of "candidates" that I've seen suggested over here for the 9th member.

Army
Boston College
Buffalo
Central Florida
Delaware
East Carolina
Florida Atlantic
Fresno State (yes, someon actually mentioned it)
George Mason
Gerorgetown
Holy Cross
James Madison
Marshall
Maryland
UMass
Memphis
Navy
Notre Dame
Penn State
Rhode Island
Southern Miss
Temple
UAB
Villanova
Virgina Tech

Who am I forgetting?

Ohio U
Boise State (seriously)
Toledo
Northwestern
Kentucky
TCU

The insanity of these topics really detracts from the board.

L-yes Wrote:The insanity of these topics really detracts from the board.

To a certain extent, especially when they get off into actually naming conference teams.

But often nice little side-bar conversations develop as well.

Still three weeks to go and then we can talk some REAL football.

Of course, perhaps some will be able to talk more than others, , but who knows, maybe my Orange will prove to be a pleasant surprise this season showing promise for future seasons to come.

Cheers,
Neil

3601 Wrote:Add JMU to the list of "candidates" that I've seen suggested over here for the 9th member.

Army
Boston College
Buffalo
Central Florida
Delaware
East Carolina
Florida Atlantic
Fresno State (yes, someon actually mentioned it)
George Mason
Gerorgetown
Holy Cross
James Madison
Marshall
Maryland
UMass
Memphis
Navy
Notre Dame
Penn State
Rhode Island
Southern Miss
Temple
UAB
Villanova
Virgina Tech

Who am I forgetting?

What I find ironic is that YOU made some of the suggestions and then go on a rant about ridiculous suggestions on this board. Then again I guess it beats having Louisiana Tech and Middle Tennessee State as the #1 expansion targets.

L-yes Wrote:The insanity of these topics really detracts from the board.

I agree. What goes through people's minds when they suggest adding freaking Holy Cross, Buffalo and James Madison. Seriously, think about those teams and know that there isn't anyway in hell that C-USA or the MWC is taking those teams much less the Big East. And then we have to listen to the occasional C-USA fan whine and cry because of these ridiculous suggestions.