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Interesting take from SI's mailbag
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CardFan636 Offline
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Interesting take from SI's mailbag
Program pecking order
Dividing BCS teams into four-tier hierarchy and more
Stewart Mandel

One of the fun things about writing the Mailbag each week is you never know which portion will touch the biggest nerve. Last week, it was a seemingly innocuous, buried-on-page-three question from a reader named Jeff in Atlanta wondering why Georgia coach Mark Richt isn't catching any heat for failing to reach the national title game.

In the course of defending Richt -- who's "only" won two SEC titles and a division crown in six years -- I noted that the Dawgs are not the sort of "national power" whose fans are entitled to expect national titles. (Their last one came 27 years ago.) My classification of the program as a "regional power" generated a whole bunch of angry e-mails from the Peach State (though there were also quite a few Georgia fans who readily agreed), as well as this interesting query from Adam in Philadelphia:

You talk about how Georgia fans hold an inflated perception of their place in the national scene. Can you give us rankings of schools and their prestige and place in the national scene? I am a huge Penn State fan (I went there) and would like to know where you place them.

Here's what makes this question so intriguing. By any quantitative standard, Georgia has been a far better program than Penn State for some time now. Heck, the Nittany Lions have had four losing seasons this decade, while the Dawgs haven't won less than eight games in a season. And yet, I would tell you without a moment's hesitation that Penn State is a national power while Georgia is not.

So I suppose this raises a question: What exactly constitutes a "national power?" To be honest, I don't have a specific answer. Obviously, a history of on-field success (national championships, major bowls) is the key component, but the program must also continue to maintain relevance -- after all, Minnesota has a bunch of national titles on its mantle, but no one views the Gophers as a national power.

No, it's something more than wins and losses. It's a certain cachet or aura. It's the way a program is perceived by the public. Let me put it to you this way:

Suppose we went to, say, Montana. And suppose we found 100 "average" college football fans (not necessarily message-board crazies, but not twice-a-year viewers, either) and put them in a room. If I held up a Michigan helmet, my guess is all 100 would know exactly what it was. If I held up a picture of the USC song girls, all 100 would know who they were. If I happened to bring Joe Paterno along with me, all 100 would say, "Hey, look, it's Joe Paterno!"

But if I held up a Georgia "G" helmet, how many of them do you think would be able to identify it off the top of their head? And with all due respect to Mark Richt, if we secretly inserted him into a police lineup, how many of them would actually say, "Hey, look, it's Mark Richt!" (I swear, Dawgs fans, I'm not trying to pile on Georgia. It's just the example I was given. Don't hate me. Here -- Larry Munson is a god.)

So with this admittedly vague yet somehow telling criteria as my guide, I will accept Adam's challenge and rank the "prestige level" of all 66 BCS schools (including Notre Dame) by dividing them into four tiers.

Kings
Alabama, Florida, Florida State, Miami, Michigan, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Penn State, Tennessee*, Texas and USC.

* Tennessee is the lone school in the group that caused any hesitation. The Vols would have been a no-brainer 10 years ago, but they have fallen off the map a bit lately. In the end, I figured those 100 fans in Montana still know "Rocky Top," the checkered end zones and that Peyton Manning went there.

Barons
Auburn, Clemson, Colorado, Georgia, LSU*, Texas A&M, UCLA, Virginia Tech, Washington and Wisconsin.

* While LSU is clearly a premier program right now, its big-picture tradition does not match those of the 13 kings. However, if the Tigers were to add another national title here in the next couple of years, they may well graduate to that group.

Knights
Arizona State, Arkansas, Boston College, Cal, Georgia Tech, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas State, Maryland, Michigan State, Missouri, N.C. State, Oklahoma State, Ole Miss, Oregon, Oregon State, Pittsburgh, Purdue, Stanford, Syracuse*, South Carolina, Texas Tech, Virginia, West Virginia and Washington State.

* In normal times, Syracuse would qualify as one of the barons, but they're just so darn bad and so irrelevant right now.

Peasants
Arizona, Baylor, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Duke, Minnesota, Indiana, Iowa State, Kansas, Kentucky, Mississippi State, North Carolina, Northwestern, Rutgers*, South Florida*, Wake Forest and Vanderbilt.

* Rutgers is another program that could be on its way up a tier, and South Florida is here by default because it's essentially a start-up.

There is one school intentionally missing from the list, and that's because I have no idea where to put it: Louisville. History-wise, the Cardinals are peasants, but the program has completely reinvented itself over the past decade and now gets mentioned with the kings and barons. For now, we'll just say: TBD.

Already anticipating what may be my biggest barrage of hate mail yet, all I ask is that you spare me any lists of all-time winning percentages, bowl wins, conference titles and whatnot. Remember -- being called a "powerhouse" is more about public perception than it is reality. Better yet, just apply the Montana test.
08-11-2007 12:42 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Interesting take from SI's mailbag
Ain't it funny how some are declared programs royalty, and all others as beneath them.
08-11-2007 04:11 PM
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frogman Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Interesting take from SI's mailbag
Here's my conspiracy theory.

I don't like this article. I don't see what purpose it serves out side of giving the "Kings" something to show recruits. For most of those teams, that was then this is now. It's sort of like saying the Chicago Bulls are a basketball dynastiy. No they were a dynasty. But those guys who made them great have retired. Now they're just another team with fond memories.
Take the Miami Candycanes for instance none of the great players were on that team last year. They all moved on. They have a head coach who doesn't have one win under his cap as a head coach. I see article like this as ESPN's attempt to protect its contracts with certain programs. Keep elevating them in the minds of recruits and fans.
Florida is the reigning king, I'll give you that. The 2008 king has yet to be determned. A knight can behead a king. But the whole BCS is a rig anyways. The should just take out the "C".
Yea, right ESPN, Long live the king!
(This post was last modified: 08-11-2007 04:57 PM by frogman.)
08-11-2007 04:50 PM
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Post: #4
RE: Interesting take from SI's mailbag
bitcruncher Wrote:Ain't it funny how some are declared programs royalty, and all others as beneath them.

Indeed.
08-11-2007 04:52 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Interesting take from SI's mailbag
The Kings have gotten the most pre-season publicity. I do know that much. Louisville and WVU are both contenders for the national championship, but the only coverage they seem to get is irrelevant to football - or subtly denegrating.

It's the good ole boy network. No matter where you look, there it is.
08-11-2007 06:09 PM
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GunnerFan Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Interesting take from SI's mailbag
frogman Wrote:Here's my conspiracy theory.

I don't like this article. I don't see what purpose it serves out side of giving the "Kings" something to show recruits. For most of those teams, that was then this is now. It's sort of like saying the Chicago Bulls are a basketball dynastiy. No they were a dynasty. But those guys who made them great have retired. Now they're just another team with fond memories.
Take the Miami Candycanes for instance none of the great players were on that team last year. They all moved on. They have a head coach who doesn't have one win under his cap as a head coach. I see article like this as ESPN's attempt to protect its contracts with certain programs. Keep elevating them in the minds of recruits and fans.
Florida is the reigning king, I'll give you that. The 2008 king has yet to be determned. A knight can behead a king. But the whole BCS is a rig anyways. The should just take out the "C".
Yea, right ESPN, Long live the king!
Uh, the article is from SI.com, not ESPN. And it did exactly what the author wanted - Got people talking and subsequently reading SI.com. That's called great business sense and landed Stewart Mandel on ESPN radio, on AM790 for Atlanta sports talk and likely a bunch of other local stations, all the while plugging SI.com. That's what he's supposed to do.

It's just a poll and like all polls should be taken with it's proper grain of salt.




Until your team tops the poll and then you feel obliged to call it Gospel! 03-wink
08-13-2007 09:14 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: Interesting take from SI's mailbag
You have one media outlet, you have them all. Nobody is original any longer. It's too risky.
08-13-2007 04:16 PM
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CatsClaw Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Interesting take from SI's mailbag
GunnerFan Wrote:
frogman Wrote:Here's my conspiracy theory.

I don't like this article. I don't see what purpose it serves out side of giving the "Kings" something to show recruits. For most of those teams, that was then this is now. It's sort of like saying the Chicago Bulls are a basketball dynastiy. No they were a dynasty. But those guys who made them great have retired. Now they're just another team with fond memories.
Take the Miami Candycanes for instance none of the great players were on that team last year. They all moved on. They have a head coach who doesn't have one win under his cap as a head coach. I see article like this as ESPN's attempt to protect its contracts with certain programs. Keep elevating them in the minds of recruits and fans.
Florida is the reigning king, I'll give you that. The 2008 king has yet to be determned. A knight can behead a king. But the whole BCS is a rig anyways. The should just take out the "C".
Yea, right ESPN, Long live the king!
Uh, the article is from SI.com, not ESPN. And it did exactly what the author wanted - Got people talking and subsequently reading SI.com. That's called great business sense and landed Stewart Mandel on ESPN radio, on AM790 for Atlanta sports talk and likely a bunch of other local stations, all the while plugging SI.com. That's what he's supposed to do.

It's just a poll and like all polls should be taken with it's proper grain of salt.




Until your team tops the poll and then you feel obliged to call it Gospel! 03-wink


Actually SI has ranked West Virginia and Louisville very high and we have still trashed SI. Congrats to Mandel for getting a few gigs, but I doubt getting a few people to read a website constitutes having "great business sense".
08-13-2007 04:19 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Interesting take from SI's mailbag
I'm not trashing SI. I'm disparaging on the entire foundation of American journalistic excellence. 03-hissyfit

Old-time newsmen, must be turning in their graves.
08-13-2007 06:09 PM
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