bitcruncher Wrote:It's much ado about nothing. Who cares about the Big12? It has nothing to do with the BEast. :muttering:

Actually, a change in the Big 12 could impact the Big East.

Not likely.

bitcruncher Wrote:Not likely.

A change in the ACC impacted the Big East which almost devistated C-USA and impacted the Mountain West Conference.

If the Big 12 split, we could see movement with schools moving up and down.

What I haven't seen mentioned on this thread is how poor many of the television markets are for the Big 12. Is Nebraska really that important of a market because of their small state populaton or do they have value because the own the market?

Would Colorado seek the Pac 10?
Would Mizzou seek the Big 10?
Would Nebraska seek the Big 10?
Would Iowa State move down?
Would Penn State look east?
Would the B12 look east?
Would we see expansion to 14 teams for some of the power conferences (ACC, SEC)?
The Big East could be a big beneficiary of movement in the Big 12 because the conference could become more attractive.

bitcruncher Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:You know bit, I used to think these Big 12 rumor splits were silly, I heard about them back in 2003. But as time goes by and I hear more and more things, while I don't think it will happen it would not shock me if it at least came close to happening, similar to how the Big East came close to splitting back in October of 2003.

Cat, The Big8 and SWC teams in the Big12 have never really merged. They just can't seem to let go the past, I guess. Either that, or there are basic philosophical differences between the schools that run deeper. I know there's that between Ag schools and all other schools. But I'm sure somebody will post something to illuminate us shortly.

Great point. I posted a link to the Texas board not that long ago when their commissioner resigned to take a job at the Big Ten Network. And the way they discussed some of the other schools in the conference, you would have thought there were two different conferences. It reminds me of the Big East football and b-ball schools talking about each other.

chess Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:That would be interesting. While the conference Memphis would be in would be decent, if the Big 12 did split and effected the MWC and C-USA I would like to see Memphis go on the other side with Oklahoma and Texas, and Texas A&M and OK State and those guys. I think that conference would have a ton of stability and potential.

What?

Memphis is a basketball school.

Memphis in a conference with Misouri and Kansas would be awesome.

That's true. But I believe that if the Big 12 split Kansas and Missouri aren't leaving Texas and Oklahoma's side.

Only way it happens...

Great West (Fiesta Bowl)
Oklahoma
Ok State
Iowa State
Nebraska
Colorado
Kansas
K State
Missouri
BYU
Utah

SWC (Cotton Bowl)
Texas
TAMU
Texas Tech
Baylor
Rice
SMU
TCU
Tulsa
Houston
Arkansas*

*Only way this ever happens is if the Razorbacks go home. The issue with the SWC was exposure outside of one state after Arkansas bolted east. Academics could rival Big 10, and the private school programs would thrive in a football-first conference again. SMU would probably sell out the new "Cotton Bowl" when Texas and TAMU are in town, as Rice sells out Reliant when the Horns visit every two years.

You can forget Arkansas ever leaving the SEC, that would be stupid on so many levels for them.

Arkansas has done some pretty stupid things lately.

Gray Avenger Wrote:This C-USA configuration is already the only "coalition" conference having NCAA "equity conference" status and already has the best TV and bowl packages outside the "Power 5 +1".

Being a little too harsh on the ACC aren't we?

esayem Wrote:SMU would probably sell out the new "Cotton Bowl" when Texas and TAMU are in town, as Rice sells out Reliant when the Horns visit every two years.

The "new" cotton Bowl is the old Cotton Bowl with 15-20,000 more seats. Other than the light rain trains that will pass by there in two years, the CB (minus the New Year's game, thanks to the greed of Jerry Jones) isn't changing that much.

Rice is not selling out Reliant when the Horns come to town. In 2004, 45,764 showed up in a 71,000 seat stadium. In 2006, only 40,069 showed up.

Texas and Texas A&M have comsiderably different views on games in Houston and Dallas after the Southwest Conference broke up. Texas wants a game a year in Houston and Dallas (vs. Oklahoma) for recruiting purposes. Texas A&M makes it very clear they won't play in those cities anymore and expects those fans to travel to Kyle Field for home games instead.

animus Wrote:Note: This is only a theory.

Denver Post on the Big XII

I'll explain as to why.

If there is something of credence to this bad blood Mr. Kiszla points out. Could the Big XII split?

In the event it were to happen, I think this would lead into the MWC dissolving. Here's why. I believe the 6 North schools would keep the Big XII name and add from the MWC, Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, Utah and Wyoming with the 6th addition being C-USA's Memphis. They would now go East-West instead of North-South yielding the alignment of:

Big XII
East - Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Memphis, Missouri, Nebraska
West - Air Force, BYU, Colorado, Colorado State, Utah, Wyoming

Championships can take place in either Denver or Kansas City.

The South schools would create the rebirth of the SWC adding TCU and New Mexico from the MWC and Houston, Rice, SMU and UTEP from Conference USA. They would go North-South yielding this realignment.

SWC
North - Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, SMU, TCU, Texas Tech, UTEP
South - Baylor, Houston, New Mexico, Rice, Texas, Texas A & M

Championships can take place in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio or Oklahoma City.

It might be a little awkward but that's to keep the rivalries together.

SDSU and UNLV are left in the cold and would have no other choice than to return to the WAC. As for CUSA, it would not have a championship game anymore with the mass exodus, though I believe they would add Louisiana Tech and North Texas and here's how I think those 2 conferences would look like:

WAC
Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico State, San Diego State, San Jose State, UNLV, Utah State

Basketball Tournament could find a permanent home in Las Vegas.

Conference USA
East Carolina, Louisiana Tech, Marshall, North Texas, Southern Miss, Tulane, Tulsa, UAB, UCF

Basketball Tournament could head to New Orleans (NO Arena), Birmingham (BJCC), Tulsa (NEW BOK Center) or Orlando (Orlando Arena)

We'll have to see how "As the Big XII Turns" ends out.

This was MY idea remember. In the future, cite the source.

MWC-CHI Wrote:

animus Wrote:Note: This is only a theory.

Denver Post on the Big XII

I'll explain as to why.

If there is something of credence to this bad blood Mr. Kiszla points out. Could the Big XII split?

In the event it were to happen, I think this would lead into the MWC dissolving. Here's why. I believe the 6 North schools would keep the Big XII name and add from the MWC, Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, Utah and Wyoming with the 6th addition being C-USA's Memphis. They would now go East-West instead of North-South yielding the alignment of:

Big XII
East - Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Memphis, Missouri, Nebraska
West - Air Force, BYU, Colorado, Colorado State, Utah, Wyoming

Championships can take place in either Denver or Kansas City.

The South schools would create the rebirth of the SWC adding TCU and New Mexico from the MWC and Houston, Rice, SMU and UTEP from Conference USA. They would go North-South yielding this realignment.

SWC
North - Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, SMU, TCU, Texas Tech, UTEP
South - Baylor, Houston, New Mexico, Rice, Texas, Texas A & M

Championships can take place in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio or Oklahoma City.

It might be a little awkward but that's to keep the rivalries together.

SDSU and UNLV are left in the cold and would have no other choice than to return to the WAC. As for CUSA, it would not have a championship game anymore with the mass exodus, though I believe they would add Louisiana Tech and North Texas and here's how I think those 2 conferences would look like:

WAC
Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico State, San Diego State, San Jose State, UNLV, Utah State

Basketball Tournament could find a permanent home in Las Vegas.

Conference USA
East Carolina, Louisiana Tech, Marshall, North Texas, Southern Miss, Tulane, Tulsa, UAB, UCF

Basketball Tournament could head to New Orleans (NO Arena), Birmingham (BJCC), Tulsa (NEW BOK Center) or Orlando (Orlando Arena)

We'll have to see how "As the Big XII Turns" ends out.

This was MY idea remember. In the future, cite the source.

And you actually want to take credit for this???

You're a braver man than I, Gunga Din.

Cheers,
Neil

omnicarrier Wrote:

MWC-CHI Wrote:

animus Wrote:Note: This is only a theory.

Denver Post on the Big XII

I'll explain as to why.

If there is something of credence to this bad blood Mr. Kiszla points out. Could the Big XII split?

In the event it were to happen, I think this would lead into the MWC dissolving. Here's why. I believe the 6 North schools would keep the Big XII name and add from the MWC, Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, Utah and Wyoming with the 6th addition being C-USA's Memphis. They would now go East-West instead of North-South yielding the alignment of:

Big XII
East - Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Memphis, Missouri, Nebraska
West - Air Force, BYU, Colorado, Colorado State, Utah, Wyoming

Championships can take place in either Denver or Kansas City.

The South schools would create the rebirth of the SWC adding TCU and New Mexico from the MWC and Houston, Rice, SMU and UTEP from Conference USA. They would go North-South yielding this realignment.

SWC
North - Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, SMU, TCU, Texas Tech, UTEP
South - Baylor, Houston, New Mexico, Rice, Texas, Texas A & M

Championships can take place in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio or Oklahoma City.

It might be a little awkward but that's to keep the rivalries together.

SDSU and UNLV are left in the cold and would have no other choice than to return to the WAC. As for CUSA, it would not have a championship game anymore with the mass exodus, though I believe they would add Louisiana Tech and North Texas and here's how I think those 2 conferences would look like:

WAC
Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico State, San Diego State, San Jose State, UNLV, Utah State

Basketball Tournament could find a permanent home in Las Vegas.

Conference USA
East Carolina, Louisiana Tech, Marshall, North Texas, Southern Miss, Tulane, Tulsa, UAB, UCF

Basketball Tournament could head to New Orleans (NO Arena), Birmingham (BJCC), Tulsa (NEW BOK Center) or Orlando (Orlando Arena)

We'll have to see how "As the Big XII Turns" ends out.

This was MY idea remember. In the future, cite the source.

And you actually want to take credit for this???

You're a braver man than I, Gunga Din.

Cheers,
Neil

This was based on what IF the 2 divisions of the Big XII have problems to the point where they cannot co-exist together.

MWC-CHI Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

MWC-CHI Wrote:

animus Wrote:Note: This is only a theory.

Denver Post on the Big XII

I'll explain as to why.

If there is something of credence to this bad blood Mr. Kiszla points out. Could the Big XII split?

In the event it were to happen, I think this would lead into the MWC dissolving. Here's why. I believe the 6 North schools would keep the Big XII name and add from the MWC, Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, Utah and Wyoming with the 6th addition being C-USA's Memphis. They would now go East-West instead of North-South yielding the alignment of:

Big XII
East - Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Memphis, Missouri, Nebraska
West - Air Force, BYU, Colorado, Colorado State, Utah, Wyoming

Championships can take place in either Denver or Kansas City.

The South schools would create the rebirth of the SWC adding TCU and New Mexico from the MWC and Houston, Rice, SMU and UTEP from Conference USA. They would go North-South yielding this realignment.

SWC
North - Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, SMU, TCU, Texas Tech, UTEP
South - Baylor, Houston, New Mexico, Rice, Texas, Texas A & M

Championships can take place in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio or Oklahoma City.

It might be a little awkward but that's to keep the rivalries together.

SDSU and UNLV are left in the cold and would have no other choice than to return to the WAC. As for CUSA, it would not have a championship game anymore with the mass exodus, though I believe they would add Louisiana Tech and North Texas and here's how I think those 2 conferences would look like:

WAC
Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico State, San Diego State, San Jose State, UNLV, Utah State

Basketball Tournament could find a permanent home in Las Vegas.

Conference USA
East Carolina, Louisiana Tech, Marshall, North Texas, Southern Miss, Tulane, Tulsa, UAB, UCF

Basketball Tournament could head to New Orleans (NO Arena), Birmingham (BJCC), Tulsa (NEW BOK Center) or Orlando (Orlando Arena)

We'll have to see how "As the Big XII Turns" ends out.

This was MY idea remember. In the future, cite the source.

And you actually want to take credit for this???

You're a braver man than I, Gunga Din.

Cheers,
Neil

This was based on what IF the 2 divisions of the Big XII have problems to the point where they cannot co-exist together.

Oh, I understand what it was based upon. Not sure you read through the entire thread or not, but the concept isn't likely even if there were a split.

The main problem being that if the South teams were to split, they aren't about to re-unite an old SWC simply because 1) the two Texas schools are constantly complaining about the academics of some of the Northern schools, 2) both Texas schools and Oklahoma don't want any part of a championship game (which means that the new SWC isn't going to go beyond 10 teams), and of course, 3) the main reason being that one of the reasons why the Big 12 and the SWC merged back in the 90s was because the markets of each on an individual basis aren't much, but together it's enough to be a BCS conference.

What does it profit the south to lose Denver, St. Louis, and Kansas City but gain Albuquerque/Santa Fe? And how does the North survive without the Texas markets at all?

Cheers,
Neil

omnicarrier Wrote:

MWC-CHI Wrote:

animus Wrote:Note: This is only a theory.

Denver Post on the Big XII

I'll explain as to why.

If there is something of credence to this bad blood Mr. Kiszla points out. Could the Big XII split?

In the event it were to happen, I think this would lead into the MWC dissolving. Here's why. I believe the 6 North schools would keep the Big XII name and add from the MWC, Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, Utah and Wyoming with the 6th addition being C-USA's Memphis. They would now go East-West instead of North-South yielding the alignment of:

Big XII
East - Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Memphis, Missouri, Nebraska
West - Air Force, BYU, Colorado, Colorado State, Utah, Wyoming

Championships can take place in either Denver or Kansas City.

The South schools would create the rebirth of the SWC adding TCU and New Mexico from the MWC and Houston, Rice, SMU and UTEP from Conference USA. They would go North-South yielding this realignment.

SWC
North - Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, SMU, TCU, Texas Tech, UTEP
South - Baylor, Houston, New Mexico, Rice, Texas, Texas A & M

Championships can take place in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio or Oklahoma City.

It might be a little awkward but that's to keep the rivalries together.

SDSU and UNLV are left in the cold and would have no other choice than to return to the WAC. As for CUSA, it would not have a championship game anymore with the mass exodus, though I believe they would add Louisiana Tech and North Texas and here's how I think those 2 conferences would look like:

WAC
Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico State, San Diego State, San Jose State, UNLV, Utah State

Basketball Tournament could find a permanent home in Las Vegas.

Conference USA
East Carolina, Louisiana Tech, Marshall, North Texas, Southern Miss, Tulane, Tulsa, UAB, UCF

Basketball Tournament could head to New Orleans (NO Arena), Birmingham (BJCC), Tulsa (NEW BOK Center) or Orlando (Orlando Arena)

We'll have to see how "As the Big XII Turns" ends out.

This was MY idea remember. In the future, cite the source.

And you actually want to take credit for this???

You're a braver man than I, Gunga Din.

Al Gore strikes again!!!

esayem Wrote:SWC (Cotton Bowl)
Texas
TAMU
Texas Tech
Baylor
Rice
SMU
TCU
Tulsa
Houston
Arkansas*

*Only way this ever happens is if the Razorbacks go home. The issue with the SWC was exposure outside of one state after Arkansas bolted east. Academics could rival Big 10, and the private school programs would thrive in a football-first conference again. SMU would probably sell out the new "Cotton Bowl" when Texas and TAMU are in town, as Rice sells out Reliant when the Horns visit every two years.

I should hope for better from someone with a Tarheel avatar, but... "Surely you jest!" SMU and TCU are not even categorized as sponsored research universities, while only three of these members are part of the AAU. The Big 12 is closer to the Big Ten in academic characteristics than what you're showing here, as they have more members considered more selective and intensive than anyone on the list save Texas and Rice. This isn't to say the above schools are poor: That's hardly the case. But differing missions and scope of operations alone means this conference would be at least one step behind the Big Ten and the CIC.

BTW: The level of exposure for the SWC was an issue when Arkansas was still in the conference as well. With rising values in national media contracts Arkansas was hardly enough of an add-on to make people see the conference as more than a one-trick (UT) pony, and that's part of why Arkansas left.

Rice doesn't sell out Reliant because they are not a BCS team. With the right coache$, they could be a powerhouse. They have the money, they just don't want the baggage.

It's just as hard to get into SMU as Michigan. They may be different types of schools, but that's not what I was talking about. Small private schools are not super state funded research facilities, doesn't mean their academics aren't as good.

I did quote the source. The first reply to this is the link to the newpaper that wrote it.

MWC-CHI Wrote:

animus Wrote:Note: This is only a theory.

Denver Post on the Big XII

I'll explain as to why.

If there is something of credence to this bad blood Mr. Kiszla points out. Could the Big XII split?

In the event it were to happen, I think this would lead into the MWC dissolving. Here's why. I believe the 6 North schools would keep the Big XII name and add from the MWC, Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, Utah and Wyoming with the 6th addition being C-USA's Memphis. They would now go East-West instead of North-South yielding the alignment of:

Big XII
East - Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Memphis, Missouri, Nebraska
West - Air Force, BYU, Colorado, Colorado State, Utah, Wyoming

Championships can take place in either Denver or Kansas City.

The South schools would create the rebirth of the SWC adding TCU and New Mexico from the MWC and Houston, Rice, SMU and UTEP from Conference USA. They would go North-South yielding this realignment.

SWC
North - Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, SMU, TCU, Texas Tech, UTEP
South - Baylor, Houston, New Mexico, Rice, Texas, Texas A & M

Championships can take place in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio or Oklahoma City.

It might be a little awkward but that's to keep the rivalries together.

SDSU and UNLV are left in the cold and would have no other choice than to return to the WAC. As for CUSA, it would not have a championship game anymore with the mass exodus, though I believe they would add Louisiana Tech and North Texas and here's how I think those 2 conferences would look like:

WAC
Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico State, San Diego State, San Jose State, UNLV, Utah State

Basketball Tournament could find a permanent home in Las Vegas.

Conference USA
East Carolina, Louisiana Tech, Marshall, North Texas, Southern Miss, Tulane, Tulsa, UAB, UCF

Basketball Tournament could head to New Orleans (NO Arena), Birmingham (BJCC), Tulsa (NEW BOK Center) or Orlando (Orlando Arena)

We'll have to see how "As the Big XII Turns" ends out.

This was MY idea remember. In the future, cite the source.

esayem Wrote:Rice doesn't sell out Reliant because they are not a BCS team. With the right coache$, they could be a powerhouse. They have the money, they just don't want the baggage.

It's just as hard to get into SMU as Michigan. They may be different types of schools, but that's not what I was talking about. Small private schools are not super state funded research facilities, doesn't mean their academics aren't as good.

Guy, with all respect, Rice is smaller than Wake Forest.