I don't know why it's called 'common sense'. It certainly isn't common among most of humanity.

omnicarrier Wrote:

Topcard91 Wrote:As far as ECU to the Big East. I do not think it will ever happen. And if it was a "football only" deal I would be the first to tell the BE to stick it. The interest in the Big East from ECU fans is not the Big East, but BCS. That is the same interest every "non-BCS" team has.

...ummm, Football Only would give ECU, or any other football only, access to the BCS label. And, if as you say, ECU could care less about Big East sports at all, I would think TH would welcome such an opportunity, IF tendered.

Quote:It is just silly that some will say Memphis is going to make the hybrid/mixture Big East suddenly more appetizing to Bowl games and TV ratings. Seeing as though their team has been to 4 bowl games and sold very few tickets and got not very good ratings in the process. I am sure the Liberty Bowl is sticking around just so they have have some sort of link to the Memphis Tigers.

One of the main reasons the Liberty Bowl certainly stuck with C-USA was because of Memphis. The residents of the city rallied behind C-USA and let it be known that they would not support the bowl if it went with a conference that did not have Memphis in it. This, of course, didn't prevent the Liberty Bowl from negotiating with the Big East, but when the final analysis was done, it was a factor.

You do realize that the majority of fans in these minor bowls are actually residents of the area and not fans from the teams involved that aren't local, right?

And, as a side note, I find it funny that a C-USA fan, particularly an ECU fan, is making fun of the traveling fanbase of Big East teams. Especially considering no ECU game at the Liberty Bowl has ever drawn that many total fans to the game. In the past 16 years, the two ECU games have the 14th and 15th ranked attended games out of 16.

All one has to do is look at the list from highest to lowest attended games over the past 16 years and see that the Liberty Bowl's preference is for an SEC team first, then Louisville, then Southern Miss, and after that it is all the same to them - at least in terms of attendance draws.

Since they secured the SEC to address the attendance issue (or so they thought), the rest is then TV ratings. And while you make a point of the fact that the Big East has the lowest ratings for the BCS games (to be expected considering the match-ups and the lack of national name programs in comparison with the other conferences), the ratings of the Gator Bowl and Insight Bowls usually have exceeded the Liberty (except for that sensational Louisville-Boise State once in a lifetime match-up).

Also, what was helping the Big East in the negotiations was that the SEC truly wanted it to be another BCS conference opponent.

The problem, as I recall, was that the Big East did not want to commit their #3 to the Liberty Bowl, but wanted it to be on a par with the Tire whereby the best possible match-ups would be worked out between the two bowls - similar to how the Insight/Tire Bowl relationship worked.

Quote:The Liberty Bowl management is so stupid that they are willing to give up money and TV ratings just so they can have a "agreement" with a team that has never been to the game and they would never want in the game.

The money in jeopardy was from the Memphis residents threatening not to support the game. Ratings was not going to be an issue. It's not as though C-USA teams outrate Big East teams. Otherwise they would have the superior ESPN TV contract, wouldn't they?

And it's not as though C-USA teams have superior fan support, otherwise their teams would rank higher in attendance at their own games than Big East teams.

As you admonish others to do, you may want to exercise some common sense.

Cheers,
Neil

:ncaabbs::ncaabbs:

MichaelSavage Wrote:How about adding two schools to the Big East? Perhaps Memphis and St. Louis. If you're already at 16 why not 18? You open up a couple of new markets to the conference and the basketball would get even better.

Quote:One of the main reasons the Liberty Bowl certainly stuck with C-USA was because of Memphis. The residents of the city rallied behind C-USA and let it be known that they would not support the bowl if it went with a conference that did not have Memphis in it. This, of course, didn't prevent the Liberty Bowl from negotiating with the Big East, but when the final analysis was done, it was a factor.

You do realize that the majority of fans in these minor bowls are actually residents of the area and not fans from the teams involved that aren't local, right?

And, as a side note, I find it funny that a C-USA fan, particularly an ECU fan, is making fun of the traveling fanbase of Big East teams. Especially considering no ECU game at the Liberty Bowl has ever drawn that many total fans to the game. In the past 16 years, the two ECU games have the 14th and 15th ranked attended games out of 16.

All one has to do is look at the list from highest to lowest attended games over the past 16 years and see that the Liberty Bowl's preference is for an SEC team first, then Louisville, then Southern Miss, and after that it is all the same to them - at least in terms of attendance draws.

Since they secured the SEC to address the attendance issue (or so they thought), the rest is then TV ratings. And while you make a point of the fact that the Big East has the lowest ratings for the BCS games (to be expected considering the match-ups and the lack of national name programs in comparison with the other conferences), the ratings of the Gator Bowl and Insight Bowls usually have exceeded the Liberty (except for that sensational Louisville-Boise State once in a lifetime match-up).

Also, what was helping the Big East in the negotiations was that the SEC truly wanted it to be another BCS conference opponent.

The problem, as I recall, was that the Big East did not want to commit their #3 to the Liberty Bowl, but wanted it to be on a par with the Tire whereby the best possible match-ups would be worked out between the two bowls - similar to how the Insight/Tire Bowl relationship worked.



Quote:
The Liberty Bowl management is so stupid that they are willing to give up money and TV ratings just so they can have a "agreement" with a team that has never been to the game and they would never want in the game.

The money in jeopardy was from the Memphis residents threatening not to support the game. Ratings was not going to be an issue. It's not as though C-USA teams outrate Big East teams. Otherwise they would have the superior ESPN TV contract, wouldn't they?

And it's not as though C-USA teams have superior fan support, otherwise their teams would rank higher in attendance at their own games than Big East teams.

As you admonish others to do, you may want to exercise some common sense.

Nice job of selective number picking. Last 16 years???

I guess you picked 16 because if you went to 17 you would see Ohio St./Air Force with 16,000 less people. How about 19 years ago when South Carolina/Indiana had 16,000 less people than what ECU brought. How about Louisville/Michigan St. in 1993 with 21,000 people?? You leave out that the average number of people for the ECU games was just shy of 47,000. Very close to the average of all of the Liberty Bowls over the last 40 years. One of which ECU's opponent was Stanford, the furthest team to make the trip and one of the smallest alumni bases.


The residents of the city "rallied"??? Were there marches in the streets? Sit ins? Boycotts? Did someone write a heated "Letter to the Editor"? It is still funny that nobody can produce any evidence of all of the civic uprising.

Do you know this Bowl had 46,000 in 1968. 50,000 in 1969. This bowl drew crowds in the 40's, 50's and even 60,000 throughout the 70's, 80's and 90's. The Bowl had no links to the Memphis (St.) Tigers at those times. So your theory that the residents of Memphis support this Bowl because of a link to the Memphis Tigers does not hold water. They support the Bowl because it is good business.

Southern Miss does a great job bringing crowds. In fact since the Bowl began its link to the C-USA champ, it has averaged well over 50,000 per game and pretty darn good TV ratings.

That is why there is no Big East in this game. Once you get past Louisville and WVU, maybe Rutgers, every other Big East teams will not bring fans or TV ratings. The C-USA champ vs a SEC team will. They will never accept the 3rd or higher rated team from the Big East. They will suffer for it. The Big East beyond WVU, UL and Rutgers is known for bringing poor Bowl crowds.

As far as ECU's attendance....You realize we are within 4,000 fans per game of being 3rd in the Big East from last year. You realize that we have already sold that many more season tickets this year so we will be 3rd compared to Big East schools (Maybe 2nd) after this coming season.

Topcard91 Wrote:The "Liberty Bowl Chairman" comment has turned into somewhat of a urban legend. Many have mentioned it but nobody has ever been able to produce this comment. The SEC runs that state. Not Memphis and the Liberty Bowl leadership.

The Liberty sees that it is better to have a conference champ from a decent conference than a 3/4th place Big East team against a 7th seed SEC team. The Big East has proven that once you get beyond 2-3 teams in the league, your attendance will suffer.

The Bowl already gets good attendance and good ratings. The people of Memphis do not show up to the game because one of the teams playing in the game played Memphis a couple of months ago!! Thats idiotic. If the locals support the game it is because it is good for the local economy.

The head if the Liberty has said on more than one occasion they support Univ of Memphis; the Bowl is controlled by a local panel and the SEC doen't run anything in Memphis. If you recall, the SEC was not even in the Liberty until this past season. They refused to play C-USA and also wanted to supply a lower ranked team, the Liberty passed on them. The locals support the Liberty Bowl for many reasons, including good for image of city, economy of city and it is an event the populace enjoy and support.

If Memphis goes to another conference other than C-USA, C-USA will not be renewed by the Liberty Bowl. It is almost a certainty whatever conference Memphis is in will get the Liberty Bowl.

I also disagree with your comparison of UM to UNCC; the potential for Memphis football is greater than Charlotte imo: 1. because Charlotte doesn't play football, 2. Memphis is smack dab in the middle of Southeastern football territory and will get our share of recruits if we are on an equal playing field (BCS) with area schools.(eg It would hurt Ole Miss and Miss State) nearly as much as it would help Memphis. We would also keep a good percentage of Memphis high school players who now mostly go to U Tenn, and even Vandy or Arkansas.

You say we would take basketball bids from schools in the BE, well since we would be a BE team, whats so bad about that? You want a lousy program added that will pull down your rpi or sos ranking? That might cost you a bid or two also.

You are right about fans that travel for certain schools in B.E.; however, I think if Memphis was a member the publicity and over all knowledge of the B.E. given to the local population of Memphis would make up for the lack of travelling fans by that BE team (as Memphis fans would attend in larger numbers and that with a good crowd from the SEC would make for good attendance).

Not here to pitch for membership, not that it would matter on a internet board anyway, just a rebuttal of your comments.

Topcard91 Wrote:

Quote:One of the main reasons the Liberty Bowl certainly stuck with C-USA was because of Memphis. The residents of the city rallied behind C-USA and let it be known that they would not support the bowl if it went with a conference that did not have Memphis in it. This, of course, didn't prevent the Liberty Bowl from negotiating with the Big East, but when the final analysis was done, it was a factor.

You do realize that the majority of fans in these minor bowls are actually residents of the area and not fans from the teams involved that aren't local, right?

And, as a side note, I find it funny that a C-USA fan, particularly an ECU fan, is making fun of the traveling fanbase of Big East teams. Especially considering no ECU game at the Liberty Bowl has ever drawn that many total fans to the game. In the past 16 years, the two ECU games have the 14th and 15th ranked attended games out of 16.

All one has to do is look at the list from highest to lowest attended games over the past 16 years and see that the Liberty Bowl's preference is for an SEC team first, then Louisville, then Southern Miss, and after that it is all the same to them - at least in terms of attendance draws.

Since they secured the SEC to address the attendance issue (or so they thought), the rest is then TV ratings. And while you make a point of the fact that the Big East has the lowest ratings for the BCS games (to be expected considering the match-ups and the lack of national name programs in comparison with the other conferences), the ratings of the Gator Bowl and Insight Bowls usually have exceeded the Liberty (except for that sensational Louisville-Boise State once in a lifetime match-up).

Also, what was helping the Big East in the negotiations was that the SEC truly wanted it to be another BCS conference opponent.

The problem, as I recall, was that the Big East did not want to commit their #3 to the Liberty Bowl, but wanted it to be on a par with the Tire whereby the best possible match-ups would be worked out between the two bowls - similar to how the Insight/Tire Bowl relationship worked.



Quote:
The Liberty Bowl management is so stupid that they are willing to give up money and TV ratings just so they can have a "agreement" with a team that has never been to the game and they would never want in the game.

The money in jeopardy was from the Memphis residents threatening not to support the game. Ratings was not going to be an issue. It's not as though C-USA teams outrate Big East teams. Otherwise they would have the superior ESPN TV contract, wouldn't they?

And it's not as though C-USA teams have superior fan support, otherwise their teams would rank higher in attendance at their own games than Big East teams.

As you admonish others to do, you may want to exercise some common sense.

Nice job of selective number picking. Last 16 years???

I guess you picked 16 because if you went to 17 you would see Ohio St./Air Force with 16,000 less people. How about 19 years ago when South Carolina/Indiana had 16,000 less people than what ECU brought. How about Louisville/Michigan St. in 1993 with 21,000 people??

The residents of the city "rallied"??? Were there marches in the streets? Sit ins? Boycotts? Did someone write a heated "Letter to the Editor"? It is still funny that nobody can produce any evidence of all of the civic uprising.

As stated previously here, regarding UofL beating MSU in 1993, the game was played in an ice storm, and Interstate 65 (Lou south to Nashville) was shut down the day before the game. I still have 4 untorn uncounted tickets in my possession from the '93 Liberty Bowl, when most literally could not reach Memphis. As Omni said, of teams playing in the bowl so far, Ole Miss is the top draw, then the Cards.

There really isn't much here. You've been proven wrong, and choose to not accept it. It's really that simple. You should take note of most ECU fans who post here reasonably and with common sense. You've quickly become the replacement of StillJonesing (since he quit posting here) in terms of ridiculous misguided posts.

Well if you really wanted to do 18 [Memphis & UCF]. Take 2 FB only [Temple & EC] and you have 12 for FB. The Patriot conf splits there BB tour in 2 sites. As Conf get bigger, eventally some body else is going to split thier Tourn. It would help eliminate empty arenas during the day.
Put 8 in Louv start a day early, 8 in NY. West championship game would be fri nite, travell on Sat, BE championship game would be on Sun. What the BE pays thier lower tier schools, FB championship, more bowls, Bigger BB tourn & more TV markets would easily cover any new additions

Topcard91 Wrote:Nice job of selective number picking. Last 16 years???

I went back the extra year to make sure ECU wasn't dead last

Quote:I guess you picked 16 because if you went to 17 you would see Ohio St./Air Force with 16,000 less people. How about 19 years ago when South Carolina/Indiana had 16,000 less people than what ECU brought. How about Louisville/Michigan St. in 1993 with 21,000 people??

Again, using common sense, and seeing how Air Force, South Carolina, and Louisville have drawn in past Liberty Bowls, should have made you realize that something was up in each of those three instances. We know it was an ice-storm for the Louisville-Michigan State game. I'm sure Memphis fans can fill us in on why the low turnout for the other two games.

Quote:You leave out that the average number of people for the ECU games was just shy of 47,000. Very close to the average of all of the Liberty Bowls over the last 40 years.

Unless, of course, one throws out the three low turnouts that are anomalies, considering the teams involved and how they have traveled in other Liberty Bowl games and then the average attendance for the past 40 years is really over 49.5K, whereas ECU's is 46.8K.

Quote:One of which ECU's opponent was Stanford, the furthest team to make the trip and one of the smallest alumni bases.

And that was the highest of the two appearances. But they were still both below average.

Quote:Do you know this Bowl had 46,000 in 1968. 50,000 in 1969. This bowl drew crowds in the 40's, 50's and even 60,000 throughout the 70's, 80's and 90's. The Bowl had no links to the Memphis (St.) Tigers at those times.

Obviously I know it, since I went to their site for the attendance figures.

Quote:So your theory that the residents of Memphis support this Bowl because of a link to the Memphis Tigers does not hold water. They support the Bowl because it is good business.

Your reading and comprehension problem is rearing its ugly head again.
Here is what I said, since you have seemed to miss the point altogether, let me paste them together for you:

"One of the main reasons the Liberty Bowl certainly stuck with C-USA was because of Memphis. The residents of the city rallied behind C-USA and let it be known that they would not support the bowl if it went with a conference that did not have Memphis in it. This, of course, didn't prevent the Liberty Bowl from negotiating with the Big East, but when the final analysis was done, it was a factor."

"Since they secured the SEC to address the attendance issue (or so they thought), the rest is then TV ratings. And while you make a point of the fact that the Big East has the lowest ratings for the BCS games (to be expected considering the match-ups and the lack of national name programs in comparison with the other conferences), the ratings of the Gator Bowl and Insight Bowls usually have exceeded the Liberty (except for that sensational Louisville-Boise State once in a lifetime match-up).

Also, what was helping the Big East in the negotiations was that the SEC truly wanted it to be another BCS conference opponent."

Now let me break it down in bullet style for you:

*The Liberty Bowl pursues the SEC. This is priority one for them.

*The opponent will either be C-USA #1 (although, as I recall, they want some flexibility to choose Memphis if they are bowl eligible over C-USA #1 and within one game of said champion) or Big East #3 (Big East wants to give them equal status with Tire, so it would be #3/#4)

*SEC wants a BCS opponent

*Memphis community rallies behind C-USA

*Neither C-USA nor Big East have a great deal of fan support. Plusses on C-USA are hometown Memphis, So. Miss, and ECU. Plusses for Big East at that time, Louisville, West Virginia, and Notre Dame option. At that time Rutgers was an unknown factor, and UConn bringing 10K to the their Bowl may or may not have been an anomaly - no proven track record.

*Ratings weighs in favor of Big East. Insight Bowl (Big East #3, usually outrates Liberty Bowl - and in years when the Tire had Pitt and BC, they were usually right behind in terms of ratings)

*Local interest weighs in favor of C-USA

*Basically a wash between C-USA and Big East

*Biggest obstacle to overcome, SEC's insistence on BCS opponent. If they are willing to concede this point, C-USA gets it due to Memphis factor.

*SEC gives in, C-USA has Liberty Bowl.

And all of that was when no one knew how the Big East would even work out. Any early wagers that even the Memphis 'pull' won't be enough for C-USA to keep the bowl in the next go-around, if the Big East says they are still interested and willing to give #3?

Cheers,
Neil

Topcard91 Wrote:As far as ECU's attendance....You realize we are within 4,000 fans per game of being 3rd in the Big East from last year. You realize that we have already sold that many more season tickets this year so we will be 3rd compared to Big East schools (Maybe 2nd) after this coming season.

I had to save this little gem for a separate response.

Talk about obscuring facts! ECU's attendance figures for last year would have placed it 7th in the Big East. You know, that league that has no fan support in comparison with the great and wonderful ECU and other C-USA stalwarts. ECU was #1 in C-USA by almost 5000 per game in C-USA.

I won't bother to bore you with overall attendance averages between the two leagues. I've beaten on you enough in this thread.

But take heart, you may pass Syracuse this year, since you made it to a Bowl game last year and might do so again, whereas the Orange are coming off a 5-18 record the past two years and are, at best likely to finish 6-6 this year.

Cheers,
Neil

The Liberty Bowl will not go back to the Big east with or without Memphis. They have already been down that road before.

Topcard's theory/belief is clearly validated by the +1 nod in his direction from TopCoog.

CollegeCard Wrote:Topcard's theory/belief is clearly validated by the +1 nod in his direction from TopCoog.

Yep! I was going to respond to the post but then saw it was TopCoog and said, why bother? Everything time TopCoog writes something, the opposite occurs.

Cheers,
Neil

You'd think he'd have the decency to keep his opinions to himself.

omnicarrier Wrote:

CollegeCard Wrote:Topcard's theory/belief is clearly validated by the +1 nod in his direction from TopCoog.

Yep! I was going to respond to the post but then saw it was TopCoog and said, why bother? Everything time TopCoog writes something, the opposite occurs.

Cheers,
Neil

Well it is official, Memphis and the Liberty Bowl to the Big East. I guess C-USA will make the Texas Bowl their number 1 Bowl.

omnicarrier Wrote:

CollegeCard Wrote:Topcard's theory/belief is clearly validated by the +1 nod in his direction from TopCoog.

Yep! I was going to respond to the post but then saw it was TopCoog and said, why bother? Everything time TopCoog writes something, the opposite occurs.

Cheers,
Neil

I always felt that its a good thing to have TopKook so opposed to the BE. I just love it when he forecasts gloom and doom for the BE. Lets just hope that he never starts rooting for the BE and start to predicting great things for the league. We would truly be in trouble then.

I don't think the BEast is succeptable to stupidity.

cuseroc Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

CollegeCard Wrote:Topcard's theory/belief is clearly validated by the +1 nod in his direction from TopCoog.

Yep! I was going to respond to the post but then saw it was TopCoog and said, why bother? Everything time TopCoog writes something, the opposite occurs.

Cheers,
Neil

I always felt that its a good thing to have TopKook so opposed to the BE. I just love it when he forecasts gloom and doom for the BE. Lets just hope that he never starts rooting for the BE and start to predicting great things for the league. We would truly be in trouble then.

Well since thats the case I guess we oughta start ramping up for the split and addition of Memphis for a 9 team all-sports conference. First task dealing with TS2 in 3...2...1.

Are you nuts about 18 schools. That's just as bad as our Mid Penn Conference for High School sports.

Mid Penn Conference
Commonwealth Division:
Carlisle
Cedar Cliff
Central Dauphin
Central Dauphin East
Chambersburg
Cumberland Valley
Harrisburg
Lower Dauphin
Altooona (Football Only)
State College (Football Only)

Keystone Division:
Gettysburg
Hershey
Mechanicsburg
Middletown
Palmyra
Red Land
Susquehanna Township
Waynesboro

Colonial Division:
Big Spring
Greencastle-Antrim
East Pennsboro
Northern
Shippensburg
Susquenita
West Perry

Capital Division:
Boiling Springs
Camp Hill
James Buchanan
Milton Hershey
Scotland
Steelton-Highspire
Trinity

Let's go, Slippery Rock! :towel: