And McGwire unsurprisingly does not.

Thoughts?

part of would've voted for mcgwire the other part wouldn't and that's without including any steroid allegations. i've seen good arguments on why he deserves it and good ones on why he doesn't.

He doesnt.

without roids, mcgurie is not a first ballot

TailgateTiger Wrote:without roids, mcgurie is not a first ballot

show me a positive test.

would you guys vote for clemens?

Dude went in front of Congress and said Im not here to talk about the past. If he didnt have anything to hide then why was he hiding it?

Terpy Wrote:Dude went in front of Congress and said Im not here to talk about the past. If he didnt have anything to hide then why was he hiding it?

Agreed. If McGwire had come out and strongly denied ever using steroids before Congress, he may not have gotten in yesterday but he would have been a whole lot closer. But he pretty much killed his chances with his pitiful display in front of Congress.

If I were a voter, I couldn't vote McGwire in now. If the facts come out that show McGwire never used 'roids, I'd vote him in. But you can't vote someone out of the Hall, and if he was found guilty you don't want someone in the Hall who shouldn't be there.

flyingswoosh Wrote:show me a positive test.

would you guys vote for clemens?

I think a lot of people accuse Clemens of doing 'roids because they just don't like him. I'm not saying he did or didn't take them, because I don't know, but there are a lot of guys I'd be more suspicious of than Clemens.

There are two other players with HOF worthy numbers who were accused of cheating and withheld from the HOF. Unless either of those players get in, I see no reason to put McGuire, Bonds, Palmerio, Sosa or any other player ACCUSED of using steroids in the Hall. For me it is that simple.

flyingswoosh Wrote:

TailgateTiger Wrote:without roids, mcgurie is not a first ballot

show me a positive test.

would you guys vote for clemens?

i would vote for clemens and bonds. i dont think mccguire that great

Terpy Wrote:Dude went in front of Congress and said Im not here to talk about the past. If he didnt have anything to hide then why was he hiding it?

i disagree. i would never tell them anything, if i wasn't obligated to. show me a court order, then i'll start talking. just because they're gov't, doesn't mean you have anything to prove.

GDawgs88 Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:show me a positive test.

would you guys vote for clemens?

I think a lot of people accuse Clemens of doing 'roids because they just don't like him. I'm not saying he did or didn't take them, because I don't know, but there are a lot of guys I'd be more suspicious of than Clemens.

umm, what? hardly anybody ever accuses clemens, and it's because the media loves him. he's played them like a fiddle. Where did you get that idea?

Terpy Wrote:There are two other players with HOF worthy numbers who were accused of cheating and withheld from the HOF. Unless either of those players get in, I see no reason to put McGuire, Bonds, Palmerio, Sosa or any other player ACCUSED of using steroids in the Hall. For me it is that simple.

nothing like accusations.

Clemens was definitely juicing too, but you are right, he will probably get in. He was skinny early in his career too, the only difference is Bonds and McGuire got buff and he got fat.

flyingswoosh Wrote:umm, what? hardly anybody ever accuses clemens, and it's because the media loves him. he's played them like a fiddle. Where did you get that idea?

Dude, pay attention. People bring up Clemens' name all the time. You just did.

Terpy Wrote:Clemens was definitely juicing too, but you are right, he will probably get in. He was skinny early in his career too, the only difference is Bonds and McGuire got buff and he got fat.

fat? you think clemens is fat? fat people don't put up numbers like that.

GDawgs88 Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:umm, what? hardly anybody ever accuses clemens, and it's because the media loves him. he's played them like a fiddle. Where did you get that idea?

Dude, pay attention. People bring up Clemens' name all the time. You just did.

people hardly ever bring his name up. and the few that do, have only started doing it in the last year.

flyingswoosh Wrote:people hardly ever bring his name up. and the few that do, have only started doing it in the last year.

Well, when you consider the steroids issue really came to a head in the last year, I'd say anyone accused in that time-frame has been under tremendous fire from fans and media. Clemens included.

GDawgs88 Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:people hardly ever bring his name up. and the few that do, have only started doing it in the last year.

Well, when you consider the steroids issue really came to a head in the last year, I'd say anyone accused in that time-frame has been under tremendous fire from fans and media. Clemens included.

tremendous? IMO, only mcgwire, bonds and palmeiro have been under tremendous fire.

flyingswoosh Wrote:

Terpy Wrote:Clemens was definitely juicing too, but you are right, he will probably get in. He was skinny early in his career too, the only difference is Bonds and McGuire got buff and he got fat.

fat? you think clemens is fat? fat people don't put up numbers like that.

Yes, he is fat, we have already discussed this.