TailgateTiger
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manny and the mets
The Mets and the Red Sox would seem to fit perfectly in a possible Manny deal. He has long wanted to go to the Mets, they need a right-handed hitting slugger and they have the type of players the Red Sox would want in return -- reliever Aaron Heilman and top prospect Lastings Milledge. Imagine what the Mets' lineup would look like with Manny:
SS Jose Reyes
C Paul Lo Duca
CF Carlos Beltran
LF Manny Ramirez
1B Carlos Delgado
3B David Wright
RF Shawn Green
2B Jose Valentin
An extraordinary National League lineup. A Manny deal makes a whole lot more sense now than it might have even a week ago, before the money exploded and started raining down over the sport.
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11-17-2006 03:09 PM |
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GDawgs88
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Keep Milledge over an aging Manny.
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11-17-2006 11:49 PM |
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Herd Fan 4-Life
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GDawgs88 Wrote:Keep Milledge over an aging Manny.
Have to agree with this. If Milledge has as much upside as advertised it would make it easy to say no.
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11-17-2006 11:55 PM |
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flyingswoosh
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i'm sorry, but the mets window of opportunity is closing and manny still has at least 3 or 4 awesome years left, maybe more.
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11-18-2006 12:31 AM |
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GDawgs88
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flyingswoosh Wrote:i'm sorry, but the mets window of opportunity is closing and manny still has at least 3 or 4 awesome years left, maybe more.
Even so, Manny's only under contract for two more years. I don't believe you give up a guy in Milledge who could be the cornerstone of your franchise for the next decade for a guy who may or not give you two good years.
The Mets' window of opportunity is not closing. It will be open every year, because they spend more money than anyone else in the National League, and they've got great young talents like Reyes and Wright locked up for years to come.
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11-18-2006 01:11 AM |
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flyingswoosh
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GDawgs88 Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:i'm sorry, but the mets window of opportunity is closing and manny still has at least 3 or 4 awesome years left, maybe more.
Even so, Manny's only under contract for two more years. I don't believe you give up a guy in Milledge who could be the cornerstone of your franchise for the next decade for a guy who may or not give you two good years.
The Mets' window of opportunity is not closing. It will be open every year, because they spend more money than anyone else in the National League, and they've got great young talents like Reyes and Wright locked up for years to come.
sorry, but without pitching, you don't win. If glavine leaves, the Mets don't have a rotation. i don't mean they only have one or two good pitchers, i mean they have no rotation. what 5 pitchers are gonna complete the rotation? if glavine's gone, who's the ace? who's the #2, who's the #3...etc.
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11-18-2006 01:33 AM |
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Terpy
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Arent they going to sign Zito?
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11-18-2006 11:41 AM |
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flyingswoosh
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Terpy Wrote:Arent they going to sign Zito?
just a rumor. every offseason the mets are rumored to be the frontrunner for every free agent.
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11-18-2006 12:34 PM |
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Terpy
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But if you had to be money for any team to sign Zito, it would be on the mets.
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11-18-2006 01:04 PM |
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GDawgs88
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flyingswoosh Wrote:sorry, but without pitching, you don't win. If glavine leaves, the Mets don't have a rotation. i don't mean they only have one or two good pitchers, i mean they have no rotation. what 5 pitchers are gonna complete the rotation? if glavine's gone, who's the ace? who's the #2, who's the #3...etc.
They're loaded with young pitching. Maine, Pelfrey, Perez, Humber, Soler, Bannister, etc. They'll sign an ace this offseason. They're in great shape pitching-wise.
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11-18-2006 01:13 PM |
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flyingswoosh
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GDawgs88 Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:sorry, but without pitching, you don't win. If glavine leaves, the Mets don't have a rotation. i don't mean they only have one or two good pitchers, i mean they have no rotation. what 5 pitchers are gonna complete the rotation? if glavine's gone, who's the ace? who's the #2, who's the #3...etc.
They're loaded with young pitching. Maine, Pelfrey, Perez, Humber, Soler, Bannister, etc. They'll sign an ace this offseason. They're in great shape pitching-wise.
maine is a #4 at best, maybe even worse. Bannister has pretty weak stuff and soler.... c'mon. Humber's had arm troubles and still has some time before he makes it. There is no sure thing in that rotation.
wait you said they were gonna sign an ace, who's the ace? i wasn't aware there was one on the market.
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11-18-2006 01:35 PM |
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Terpy
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Barry Zito is not an ace???
You are nuts.
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11-18-2006 01:48 PM |
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flyingswoosh
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Terpy Wrote:Barry Zito is not an ace???
You are nuts.
no, actually you are. do you know who else doesn't think he's an ace? the mets and yankees. it's well documented in the NY papers that the mets haven't offered him big money yet because they don't think he's an ace. Look at his last 3 seasons:
2006- 16-10, 3.83 ERA
2005- 14-13, 3.86 ERA
2004- 11-11, 4.48 ERA
I could excuse the ERA numbers if he was a strikeout pitcher, but he's not. He's not anything, just a #2.
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11-18-2006 02:02 PM |
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Terpy
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He was top 10 in the AL in both wins and ERA last year. If he isnt an ace then I guess by your definition there are only what 5 or 6 aces in all of baseball?
He was top ten in innings pitched as well.
There are no more than 4 teams in baseball where he wouldnt be the number 1 guy.
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11-18-2006 02:45 PM |
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flyingswoosh
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Terpy Wrote:He was top 10 in the AL in both wins and ERA last year. If he isnt an ace then I guess by your definition there are only what 5 or 6 aces in all of baseball?
He was top ten in innings pitched as well.
There are no more than 4 teams in baseball where he wouldnt be the number 1 guy.
top 10 in a league doesn't make you an ace. actually there are 7 aces in baseball, with willis pending this season.
halladay, santana, smoltz, carpenter, oswalt, zambrano, webb. if you think i'm crazy, then you must think the mets and yankees are crazy. Most baseball people don't think of zito as an ace.
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11-18-2006 02:55 PM |
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Terpy
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So 4 tenths of a run makes Zambrano an Ace and Zito not an ace, that makes a lot of sense.
Guaranteed that if the Mets sign Zito he will be their opening day starter.
Only one guy on your list has ever won more games in a season than Zito's 23 in 2002. Im not really arguing with your list, those guys are all probably better than Zito but if those guys are the top 7 pitchers in baseball then Zito is in the top ten. And if you dont consider the top ten pitchers in baseball to be aces then I dont know what to tell you.
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11-18-2006 03:25 PM |
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flyingswoosh
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Terpy Wrote:So 4 tenths of a run makes Zambrano an Ace and Zito not an ace, that makes a lot of sense.
Guaranteed that if the Mets sign Zito he will be their opening day starter.
Only one guy on your list has ever won more games in a season than Zito's 23 in 2002. Im not really arguing with your list, those guys are all probably better than Zito but if those guys are the top 7 pitchers in baseball then Zito is in the top ten. And if you dont consider the top ten pitchers in baseball to be aces then I dont know what to tell you.
dude, 4 tenths is a lot, almost half a run. not to mention zambrano struck out a lot more and played for a much worse team.
what does zito's 23 win total in 2002 have to do with anything. he was a different pitcher then, everyone knows that.
in addition to those 7, i think willis, and lackey are better than zito. i also think this season will tell us something about arroyo, harang and cain. The top 7 are aces and the next 4 or 5 are second tier. Why do the next 3 have to be aces, if they aren't as good as the top 7? that doesn't make any sense.
BTW, i also think millwood is right up there with zito and he is definitely not an ace.
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11-18-2006 03:47 PM |
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Terpy
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11-18-2006 04:03 PM |
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flyingswoosh
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Terpy Wrote:you are insane
you're more insane for thinking zito's an ace. the guy hasn't done anything amazing over the past 3 seasons. and then you come on here talking about what he did 4 freakin years ago. Like that means anything. if you actually watched him, you'd know he's not quite what he used to be. Of course that seems to be forte. I doubt you watched JD Drew for 5 games this season, yet you seem to know all about him.
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11-18-2006 04:20 PM |
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GDawgs88
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Whether or not Zito fits into your definition of ace, is it really that big of a deal? Did the Mets have one last year? Zito is at least equal to Glavine. There are a lot worse guys you could have anchoring your rotation.
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11-18-2006 04:40 PM |
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