DrTorch Wrote:

PirateTreasureNC Wrote:

OptimisticOwl Wrote:I'm OK with Washington, as one of our greatest Americans. Top 15? probably, but let's wait until we have discussed more people before we put anyone irrevocably into the top 15. We amy get 15 people in before we even discuss Mr. X or Joe Z., and so may need to bump someone out if a latecomer is deemed worthy of inclusion. So, for now, yes.

I'll vote for Mr X. He always saves Speed Racer and that is definately American. lmfao

Excuse me, that would be RACER X. And the Racers are Japanese.

When addressed properly is Mr. X lmfao And as far as teh racers go..they never really distinguish them as Japanese or not...granted the toon was originated in Japan is considered anime. You can't tell me Sparky, Trixie, and Spritle look Asian now can you?

PirateTreasureNC Wrote:

OptimisticOwl Wrote:I'm OK with Washington, as one of our greatest Americans. Top 15? probably, but let's wait until we have discussed more people before we put anyone irrevocably into the top 15. We amy get 15 people in before we even discuss Mr. X or Joe Z., and so may need to bump someone out if a latecomer is deemed worthy of inclusion. So, for now, yes.

I'll vote for Mr X. He always saves Speed Racer and that is definately American. lmfao

Yeah, I'm gonna have to say no mindless banter like this. Stay focused to the discussion. I don't want to have to moniter a bunch of pointless posts that interupt the discussions.

So far only Owl has put Adams on the list. Any other takers?

A good idea, T-Monay, but it looks as if no one else cares or will take it seriously.

Why don't we start with about ten or fifteen of the consensus names, like Washington, Adams, Jefferson, and Franklin. let people object if they want, but most likely they won't. Then get to some names with a bit of controversy. Else i think we will lose all our players. You want some action, throw out Clinton and Reagan next.

Alright, since only one person added their opinion, Adams moves ahead of Washington.bWe'll try 3 people at once for a while, until we start getting some discussion.

Thomas Jefferson
Ben Franklin
James Madison

Where do you rank them?

Jefferson
Franklin
Adams
Washington
Madison

OptimisticOwl Wrote:Jefferson
Franklin
Adams
Washington
Madison

I don't know if I would put Jefferson all the way at the top. Washington makes a really strong case being the CinC of the Continental Army and defeating the greatest military power at the time. He established the foundations for the presidency. Franklin was an equally important member during the Revolution courting the french to join, being a fairly moderate voice in the Congress, and inventor. I don't have as strong a case for Adams.

Here is my thinking. Jefferson, franklin , and Adams were instrumental in the creating of the basis of our country and our government. They were movers and shakers form 1760 to 1830. Washington's main accomplishment was his generaling. people today quote jefferson in their arguments about the intent of the founding fathers on everything. Considering the entire body of their work and lasting influence, I put people like Jefferson at the head of the class.

OptimisticOwl Wrote:Here is my thinking. Jefferson, franklin , and Adams were instrumental in the creating of the basis of our country and our government. They were movers and shakers form 1760 to 1830. Washington's main accomplishment was his generaling. people today quote jefferson in their arguments about the intent of the founding fathers on everything. Considering the entire body of their work and lasting influence, I put people like Jefferson at the head of the class.

True, Jefferson is an incredibly important American, but should we base this on what Washington is mainly known for or as you put it, the who work. Washington also was part of the Continental Congress and if he wasn't the general, it is quite possible the US would not exist, thus making Jefferson irrelevant (do you remember who wrote the Conferderates declaration? Most likely not since they were defeated.) Washington.

There were thousands of people who contributed to the independence of our country and the formation of our way of government. if we were to regard all these as parts of a machine, then some parts are more important than others. I think, beginning to end, TJ had more impact on what we have today than Washington. Eisenhower was a great general who was also President. Jackson ditto. But Jefferson shaoped the thinking that went into our way of government, and is still an authority today

I think, AB, you think BA. We both probably think that even though the other is wrong, it is not a great mistake, like advocating for George Lincoln Rockwell would be. This is where the other discussors would be of help. We have a 1-1 tie, when we should be working toward a 7-2 majority.

OptimisticOwl Wrote:Here is my thinking. Jefferson, franklin , and Adams were instrumental in the creating of the basis of our country and our government. They were movers and shakers form 1760 to 1830. Washington's main accomplishment was his generaling. people today quote jefferson in their arguments about the intent of the founding fathers on everything. Considering the entire body of their work and lasting influence, I put people like Jefferson at the head of the class.

I have trouble understanding why most historians hold Washington in such high regard, but mostly because I don't know enough about him. But, from what I know about his generalling, I don't think he was an extraordinary military commander - in fact, I think he lost most of his battles. Nevertheless, I think the reason he was held in such high regard by his peers and by historians was his intellect.

I think one of this countries great treasures is the correspondence between Jefferson and Adams, and between John and Abigail Adams. In many ways, I view Madison as a protege of Jefferson, and he may be lost in the shadows in those terms.

A recurring theme that I've seen from historians is that Jefferson really didn't contribute a great number of original ideas - for instance the phrase "wall of separation" is frequently attributed to Jefferson, but he did not coin it - that distinction belongs to the Scotsman James Burgh, apparently a good friend of Benjamin Franklin. Likewise, Jefferson wrote the first draft of the Declaration of Independence, but the ideas and language belong more to Locke than Jefferson. Even when he authored his owen Bible, Jefferson did it with a razor rather than a pen.

Nevertheless, I have tremendous respect for the scholarship and persuasive power of Jefferson. Likewise, Franklin's involvement in diplomacy, politics, and science makes him a fascinating character. Out of the bunch, I think Adams may be the most underestimated. In the end, I wish I understood more about Washington. I would rank them as follows:

Jefferson
Adams
Washington
Madison
Franklin

Sorry, went out of town for a bit. But looks like we have some difference here between Adams, Franklin, Washington, and Madison.

Why should Franklin be ranked 2nd OOwl? Why should Adams I45owl? Feel free to change your rankings if you hear something that convinces you to change.

I put Franklin second because of the breadth and depth of his contributions and accomplishments. He was sort of a DaVince, in that he was outstanding in several different fields.

Anybody still interested in this?

Eh it sort of died out, and I got really busy here at school. But we can keep going if people are interested.

Werner Von Braun. Big time draw back is he was in the Nazi party during WWII, but we owe are moon landing to him.

Machiavelli Wrote:Werner Von Braun. Big time draw back is he was in the Nazi party during WWII, but we owe are moon landing to him.

We've already had the nomination process, and I don't think we allowed people born outside of the country. I have the nominee list if we choose to continue.

just curious, give us the list of nominees