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Post: #61
 
GrayBeard Wrote:Trying to change the subject of the thread? If you want to start an evolution thread, be my guest.

Absolutely not; this is just another aspect of the literalist interpretation (which you have frequently cited about) of the Bible.

One of the great advances in Religion over the past half century has been the development of a literate population which no longer requires a single person to read and interpret the word of God for everybody else. And too often problems are caused by other people deciding how everyone else has to view God.

And frankly, I wish their would have been a little more quantum theory in the Bible; unfortunately, our lateness in grasping Calculus probably would have rendered that a little too complicated for inclusion in the Old Testament.
04-12-2006 09:28 PM
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Post: #62
 
OwlJacket Wrote:
GrayBeard Wrote:Trying to change the subject of the thread? If you want to start an evolution thread, be my guest.

Absolutely not; this is just another aspect of the literalist interpretation (which you have frequently cited about) of the Bible.

One of the great advances in Religion over the past half century has been the development of a literate population which no longer requires a single person to read and interpret the word of God for everybody else. And too often problems are caused by other people deciding how everyone else has to view God.

And frankly, I wish their would have been a little more quantum theory in the Bible; unfortunately, our lateness in grasping Calculus probably would have rendered that a little too complicated for inclusion in the Old Testament.

Isn't it ironic that a devout Christian man invented Calculus though. In fact the best mind in science (ever) invented Calculus. All your ungodly people couldn't do better (and sooner) down through the ages? Apparently not. It seems to take a Christian to make significant contributions to science and mathmatics.

OwlJacket check out this math related to the coming of Jesus Christ:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...E_ID=49720
04-13-2006 02:19 AM
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Post: #63
 
Endzone2 Wrote:Isn't it ironic that a devout Christian man invented Calculus though. In fact the best mind in science (ever) invented Calculus. All your ungodly people couldn't do better (and sooner) down through the ages? Apparently not. It seems to take a Christian to make significant contributions to science and mathmatics.

Without going into a history of the Newton v. Leibnitz debate, or your characterization of Newton as the greatest scientific mind ever (he's certainly up there), i'll have to say you're completely missing my point. (And Einstein was Jewish - I guess his contributions to science must be rubbish by your argument). You can be a good scientist and have a strong faith - the two are by no means mutually exclusive.

None of this has anything to do with people trying to impose their will or interpretation of the Bible (or other religious text) on anyone else. Or their mistaken characterization of anyone who is Christian but has a different interpretation than the one they were taught as 'ungodly', as you have labeled me. I think there is Someone better qualified to make those judgements than you are.
04-13-2006 07:50 AM
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Post: #64
 
Quote:Ninerfan1 I like your style. Intelligent but not arrogant. I wonder do you have a formal education and if so from what college?

You're probably the only one on here that would say I'm not arrogant. lmfao

I have a college degree in communication studies (concentration in Public Relations) though I'm not in that field anymore. But I read quite a bit on subjects such as these and took enough philosophy classes in college to almost have a major in it.

I really enjoy discussions like this, especially when they are respectful.
04-13-2006 08:47 AM
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Endzone2 Offline
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Post: #65
 
OwlJacket Wrote:
Endzone2 Wrote:Isn't it ironic that a devout Christian man invented Calculus though. In fact the best mind in science (ever) invented Calculus. All your ungodly people couldn't do better (and sooner) down through the ages? Apparently not. It seems to take a Christian to make significant contributions to science and mathmatics.

Without going into a history of the Newton v. Leibnitz debate, or your characterization of Newton as the greatest scientific mind ever (he's certainly up there), i'll have to say you're completely missing my point. (And Einstein was Jewish - I guess his contributions to science must be rubbish by your argument). You can be a good scientist and have a strong faith - the two are by no means mutually exclusive.

None of this has anything to do with people trying to impose their will or interpretation of the Bible (or other religious text) on anyone else. Or their mistaken characterization of anyone who is Christian but has a different interpretation than the one they were taught as 'ungodly', as you have labeled me. I think there is Someone better qualified to make those judgements than you are.

Well it is generally understood among the scientific community and among philosophers that Newton did more for science than any other man. I personally believe that is true. Einstein's contributions were very significant too and he also believed there was a God.

I don't know much about you. I've only been on this board a short time. But if you think "all roads lead to heaven", you are very mistaken IMHO.
04-14-2006 01:29 AM
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Post: #66
 
Endzone2 Wrote:Well it is generally understood among the scientific community and among philosophers that Newton did more for science than any other man. I personally believe that is true. Einstein's contributions were very significant too and he also believed there was a God.

I don't know much about you. I've only been on this board a short time. But if you think "all roads lead to heaven", you are very mistaken IMHO.

(1) "Greatest scientific mind" and "most influential scientist" are not the same thing.

(2) Philosphy is not a science.

(3) You have said Einstein is toasty warm right now, yet are trying to defend his contributions. Which is it?

(4) All roads may not lead to heaven, but it is not up to you to determine which road everybody has to take.
04-14-2006 05:31 AM
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Post: #67
 
OwlJacket Wrote:
Endzone2 Wrote:Well it is generally understood among the scientific community and among philosophers that Newton did more for science than any other man. I personally believe that is true. Einstein's contributions were very significant too and he also believed there was a God.

I don't know much about you. I've only been on this board a short time. But if you think "all roads lead to heaven", you are very mistaken IMHO.

(1) "Greatest scientific mind" and "most influential scientist" are not the same thing.

(2) Philosphy is not a science.

(3) You have said Einstein is toasty warm right now, yet are trying to defend his contributions. Which is it?

(4) All roads may not lead to heaven, but it is not up to you to determine which road everybody has to take.

No, I think "greatest scientific mind" is correct. All his significant achievements (and they were many) happened in about a 3 year span of his life.

I was into philosophy in high school and read a lot of Colin Wilson's books. Colin Wilson was the philosopher's philospher and had read every work that could be read. He said that Newton did more for science than any other man, and that it was hard to imagine him human. I agree.

I don't understand what your question is about Einstein. Only a fool would question the ability of this man. I don't believe He was a Christian though, but he did believe there was a God.

No, it is not up to me to determine which road people decide to put their trust in to gain entrance into the kingdom of heaven. I will follow Jesus though and serve Him. I put my trust in Him and I will try to persuade others to put their trust in Him.
04-14-2006 01:24 PM
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Post: #68
 
Endzone2 Wrote:
ShoreBuc Wrote:According to this verse IMHO it would seem your guy on the beach in the South Pacific who is just living it up and has no relationship with God and does not honor and worship him would in fact be held accountable

So are you saying the guy on the beach would go to hell for all eternity just because he was unlucky enough to live on a remote part of the earth and for that matter all Buddhist who live peacefully would go to hell because they have not accepted Jesus???

Let me interpret the passage in Romans for you. What it says is that when you look up at the stars on a clear quiet cool night, you know that there is a God.

As far as the other religions, you have to be willing to lie to yourself to believe these religions. You realize after a while that they are man-made religions and can't possibly be true. I remember going through my stint in philosophy when was a 18 or 19. After a while I chucked all my philosophy books because I realize they were just vain imaginations of men. I came to realize the Bible is the truth. People who resist the truth just enjoy their sin and like running their own show. That is why they continue to hold onto it. After a while those raghead guys in the middle east have to understand that throwing out a prayer rug 4 times and day and bowing down to the ground is just a form of man made religion to a false god. But there must be some benefit to them for doing that rather than be willing to acknowledge the truth.

Ouch. You have some pretty scary thoughts/ideas(not to mention ones that lead to war and not peace).
04-16-2006 11:25 AM
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Post: #69
Re: Do you have eternal security?
GrayBeard Wrote:
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:
GrayBeard Wrote:What is going to happen to your soul when you die?

I don't know, and neither does anyone else, for certain. We also have no idea if a "soul" even exists. And if a soul does exist, what it is exactly.

I am certain!

Cool! Can you describe to me where in the body it is? I want to check mine. As of right now, I am going to Hell based on your tolerant God. I would like to see your nearperfect/perfect soul so I can compare the 2. Maybe get a transplant wouldn't be out of the question?
04-16-2006 11:40 AM
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Post: #70
 
Soul Transplant would be a good name for a band.
04-17-2006 07:18 AM
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Post: #71
Re: Do you have eternal security?
RobertN Wrote:
GrayBeard Wrote:
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:
GrayBeard Wrote:What is going to happen to your soul when you die?

I don't know, and neither does anyone else, for certain. We also have no idea if a "soul" even exists. And if a soul does exist, what it is exactly.

I am certain!

Cool! Can you describe to me where in the body it is? I want to check mine. As of right now, I am going to Hell based on your tolerant God. I would like to see your nearperfect/perfect soul so I can compare the 2. Maybe get a transplant wouldn't be out of the question?

The thing that keeps you from going to heaven, is not a "tolerant God", but a personal choice. The choice is yours, and the consequences last for eternity.
04-17-2006 08:40 AM
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Post: #72
Re: Do you have eternal security?
RobertN Wrote:
GrayBeard Wrote:
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:
GrayBeard Wrote:What is going to happen to your soul when you die?

I don't know, and neither does anyone else, for certain. We also have no idea if a "soul" even exists. And if a soul does exist, what it is exactly.

I am certain!

Cool! Can you describe to me where in the body it is? I want to check mine. As of right now, I am going to Hell based on your tolerant God. I would like to see your nearperfect/perfect soul so I can compare the 2. Maybe get a transplant wouldn't be out of the question?

You are not going to hell based on "our" tolerant God. If you go to hell, you went there by your own personal choice. Right now there is an open invitation to heaven for everyone who wants to go. The good news is because of the events we just celebrated (i.e. Easter, death on the cross) even people like me, who aren't anywhere close to perfect, can get there. It is tough for me to understand how you can say that God wants you to go to hell, when He has made it so easy to escape it. Is asking you to believe in Him really that much to ask? If you choose not to, can you really blame Him or say He is intolerant?

If I send you an invitation to a party and tell you that I will give you a million bucks if you come and then I give you directions to the party and tell you what time the party starts and then you don't show up because you decided to watch T.V. instead, is it my fault you didn't get the million? Am I intolerant because I didn't come to your house, knock on the door, pull you out of the house and drag you to the party to get your million? Be reasonable.

To continue the party analogy, maybe a lot of people would tell you that I wasn't really giving away a million dollars to every party attendee, just like a lot of people say God doesn't exist. If you thought there was a chance that it was true, wouldn't you go? If you look at it from a risk/reward standpoint, what would you have to lose? One evening? With the potential reward of a million bucks? Seems like a good bet to me, especially considering the amount of remorse I would feel, if I found out after the party that it was all true and I had missed out.

I will get down off the soapbox now. I know many people here have already decided which way they will go on this issue. However, it does seem like kind of a cop out to blame someone else for a decision you make.

If anyone here has not made that decision and would like to discuss this further offline or would like more information feel free to PM me.
04-17-2006 10:49 AM
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Post: #73
 
Endzone2 Wrote:What if you have an addictive behavior in your life and you keep sinning, but you want to get out of it? What if you have accepted Jesus and want to follow Him, but keep getting tripped up? What happens to your soul when you die?

Romans 8:1 addresses this quite well I believe...

1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in sinful man,[d] 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Basically meaning that once you are "Saved" you are always saved. But please don't mistake the context of this. You will still be judged for your actions Sins and non-sins. Everyone regardless of anything will be judged for thier lives. But just because you have sinned or continue to sin does not mean you are casted out of heaven. You'll get there but you will pay for your actions while living your life.
04-17-2006 10:59 AM
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Post: #74
 
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04-17-2006 01:42 PM
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Post: #75
 
damn, reading this thread scares me.

let me propose this. is there anyone here who really dosent think scientology is a cult? i would imagine the overwhelming majority do. but what makes scientology so much different from christianity, or any other organized religion for that matter? if jesus rose on the 3rd day, walked on water, etc ect, whos to say that that there werent aliens flying douglas dc-8s, and thetan levels and all that other crap. both are just as crazy. so big whoop, christianity is a 2000 year old cult, and scientology is a 50 year old one. the overwhelming amount of people are born into a religion. youre brainwashed from the age of an infant. i do have a certain amount of respect for people who choose their own religion in adulthood, at least it was a conscious decision. now i consider myself a spiritual person. i believe that there is more to our lives than meets the eye, and that we are a minuscule part of something bigger. however, i dont think there is a big guy in the sky who has a big book and is keeping tabs how many times you lied to your mom or drop an f bomb. and people who take a literal interpretation of the bible and take teachings as scientific fact scare me even more.

every great civilization has had a religion. and once theyve fallen, thousands of years later, when people look back at them, they chuckle at how silly it all seemed (i.e. greek mythology, etc). and once our civilization has fallen and crumbled off the face of the earth (not a question of if, but when. nothing lasts forever), thousands of years from now, we will be looked back on in the same way.
04-17-2006 10:24 PM
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Post: #76
 
First of all Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and Father God. In the world of Christianity you can not get to heaven by being "religious" enough.

Secondly, why do think you're smarter than the creator God? Have you ever looked up at the stars at night? Have you ever done a brief study on the human body. There are like 10 billion nerve cells in your brain capable of trillions upon trillions of different connections. Each cell in your body can produce something like 100,000 different amino acids. How can a small child grow from a baby to be an adult in 18 years and yet evertying single cell and body part stay in the same proportion?

How can possibly say there is no God? Romans 1:18-25 certainly applies to you. I'd encourage you to humble yourself and start a prayer life with the Lord Jesus Christ. Don't believe the lies in your mind anymore. You're opening the door for Satan to deceive you even more.
04-18-2006 01:10 PM
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Post: #77
 
Endzone2 Wrote:First of all Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and Father God. In the world of Christianity you can not get to heaven by being "religious" enough.

Secondly, why do think you're smarter than the creator God? Have you ever looked up at the stars at night? Have you ever done a brief study on the human body. There are like 10 billion nerve cells in your brain capable of trillions upon trillions of different connections. Each cell in your body can produce something like 100,000 different amino acids. How can a small child grow from a baby to be an adult in 18 years and yet evertying single cell and body part stay in the same proportion?

How can possibly say there is no God? Romans 1:18-25 certainly applies to you. I'd encourage you to humble yourself and start a prayer life with the Lord Jesus Christ. Don't believe the lies in your mind anymore. You're opening the door for Satan to deceive you even more.

so becuase something is complex i have to attribute it to a higher power? the computer im typing now is infinitely more complicated than i could ever understand. we built a space ship that put a man on the moon. that dosent mean these things magically came down from the sky and that there is not a logical explanation for its existince and creation. and whos to say your "religion", christianity, etc. is right? because a book says so? there are dozens of other books and religions across the world that believe just as strongly in their beliefs as you do, maybe even more so. but you just so happen to be right and all of them wrong? its because of radical beliefs like that that our world is on the brink of blowing itself up....
05-02-2006 02:41 AM
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Post: #78
 
niuhuskie84 Wrote:
Endzone2 Wrote:First of all Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and Father God. In the world of Christianity you can not get to heaven by being "religious" enough.

Secondly, why do think you're smarter than the creator God? Have you ever looked up at the stars at night? Have you ever done a brief study on the human body. There are like 10 billion nerve cells in your brain capable of trillions upon trillions of different connections. Each cell in your body can produce something like 100,000 different amino acids. How can a small child grow from a baby to be an adult in 18 years and yet evertying single cell and body part stay in the same proportion?

How can possibly say there is no God? Romans 1:18-25 certainly applies to you. I'd encourage you to humble yourself and start a prayer life with the Lord Jesus Christ. Don't believe the lies in your mind anymore. You're opening the door for Satan to deceive you even more.

so becuase something is complex i have to attribute it to a higher power? the computer im typing now is infinitely more complicated than i could ever understand. we built a space ship that put a man on the moon. that dosent mean these things magically came down from the sky and that there is not a logical explanation for its existince and creation. and whos to say your "religion", christianity, etc. is right? because a book says so? there are dozens of other books and religions across the world that believe just as strongly in their beliefs as you do, maybe even more so. but you just so happen to be right and all of them wrong? its because of radical beliefs like that that our world is on the brink of blowing itself up....

A computer and a space ship were put together by a higher power (man). It didn't just happen by chance. You want me to believe that bones, cells, nervous system, human hand, human eye, our brain, our limbs, our digestive sytem, our reproductive system, etc, etc. is all by chance? Some random grouping of molecules (by the way, where did the molecules come from) caused us into being? No way! Now that is taking something on faith!
05-02-2006 08:50 AM
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Post: #79
 
GrayBeard Wrote:
niuhuskie84 Wrote:
Endzone2 Wrote:First of all Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and Father God. In the world of Christianity you can not get to heaven by being "religious" enough.

Secondly, why do think you're smarter than the creator God? Have you ever looked up at the stars at night? Have you ever done a brief study on the human body. There are like 10 billion nerve cells in your brain capable of trillions upon trillions of different connections. Each cell in your body can produce something like 100,000 different amino acids. How can a small child grow from a baby to be an adult in 18 years and yet evertying single cell and body part stay in the same proportion?

How can possibly say there is no God? Romans 1:18-25 certainly applies to you. I'd encourage you to humble yourself and start a prayer life with the Lord Jesus Christ. Don't believe the lies in your mind anymore. You're opening the door for Satan to deceive you even more.

so becuase something is complex i have to attribute it to a higher power? the computer im typing now is infinitely more complicated than i could ever understand. we built a space ship that put a man on the moon. that dosent mean these things magically came down from the sky and that there is not a logical explanation for its existince and creation. and whos to say your "religion", christianity, etc. is right? because a book says so? there are dozens of other books and religions across the world that believe just as strongly in their beliefs as you do, maybe even more so. but you just so happen to be right and all of them wrong? its because of radical beliefs like that that our world is on the brink of blowing itself up....

A computer and a space ship were put together by a higher power (man). It didn't just happen by chance. You want me to believe that bones, cells, nervous system, human hand, human eye, our brain, our limbs, our digestive sytem, our reproductive system, etc, etc. is all by chance? Some random grouping of molecules (by the way, where did the molecules come from) caused us into being? No way! Now that is taking something on faith!

yea, i do believe its chance. im not claiming to have all the answers about life and the universe. man in its current state i dont believe could ever fully comprehend it, even if we did know. but that dosent by default mean jesus is the son of god, rose on the 3rd day etc etc. us, our religions, our worldly concerns, our politics...are all insignificant in the scope of whats out there. and the fact that we think these things even matter in the infniity of space is laughable. earth could be wiped off the face of existence tomarrow, but the sun will still rise for the other planets, the universe will still expand/contract, stars will still be born and die. nothing hinges on us except the world we know.
05-02-2006 09:26 AM
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Post: #80
 
In the afterlife (whether I go to hell or heaven does not matter), what will I look like? Will I look like I did at 20, what I end up looking like at 40, when I die, when I was born?

In heaven am I allowed to go hook up with other women, instead of my wife? I mean, it says "till death do us part". Or would I not be considered "dead". What if I die before my wife, she could live for years without me having sex. Or do you not have sex since you aren't procreating? Humans and dolphins are the only animals who have sex for fun/pleasure, so that would suck if we no longer have that stimulation.

Are there sports in heaven? Or do I watch the sports that are on TV for the "living"? Do they have "Survivor: Heaven", where the losers get voted off the cloud?

Do you sleep in heaven? Do you have a house in heaven? Is there money in heaven, or do you just get anything you want? What about food?
05-02-2006 10:18 AM
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