Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Conservatives, Liberals, & Moderates
Author Message
Okie Chippewa Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,958
Joined: Aug 2002
Reputation: 46
I Root For: The MAC
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Post: #1
 
Staunch Conservatives believe everyone has a right to their own opinion, but if you disagree with them, they will kick your butt

Radical Liberals believe everyone has a right to their own opinion, but if your disagree with them, they will protest.

Moderates believe everyone has a right to their own opinion, but they will form one based upon an interpretation of the facts rather than on dogma.
04-06-2003 08:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


GDawgs88 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,930
Joined: Oct 2002
Reputation: 8
I Root For:
Location:

Crappies
Post: #2
 
Okie Chippewa Wrote:Staunch Conservatives believe everyone has a right to their own opinion, but if you disagree with them, they will kick your butt
If that was true then Michael Moore would be 6 feet under right now.
04-06-2003 08:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RochesterFalcon Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,626
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 3
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #3
 
Most conservatives don't walk the walk. :D
04-06-2003 10:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
MUther Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,144
Joined: Jun 2002
Reputation: 615
I Root For: Marshall
Location:

CrappiesCrappies
Post: #4
 
RochesterFalcon Wrote:Most conservatives don't walk the walk. :D
Conservatives walk the walk, liberals walk away.
04-07-2003 12:58 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JoltinJacket Offline
The Resident Stat Machine
*

Posts: 13,021
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation: 24
I Root For: Georgia Tech
Location: Atlanta, GA

SkunkworksHall of FameCrappies
Post: #5
 
MUther Wrote:
RochesterFalcon Wrote:Most conservatives don't walk the walk.  :D
Conservatives walk the walk, liberals walk away.
Zing! That about sums it up perfectly.
04-07-2003 01:56 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Guest
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #6
 
Oh, that's right...

Tell us about how GWB walked the walk in Viet Nam? What unit did Rush Limbaugh serve with? Was it "walking the walk" when that paragon of morality, Newt Gingrich, told his wife that he wanted a divorce so that he could marry a "trophy" wife...while she lay in a hospital bed?

Zing, indeed. :rolleyes:
04-07-2003 04:53 AM
Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


RochesterFalcon Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,626
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 3
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #7
 
I don't I don't say this often, but thanks Oddball.

What follows is from America's Finest News Source ™:

IRAQ-KUWAIT BORDER
04-07-2003 06:24 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
rickheel Offline
The Old Bastard
*

Posts: 8,468
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation: 11
I Root For: Heels
Location:

Donators
Post: #8
 
Speaking of bill.........
Memo on Bill Clinton's Character and how is being President a reflection on the American people.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also posted in the TOWNHALL

MEMORANDUM

TO: MY DEMOCRAT FRIENDS
FROM: MARK F. (THOR) HEARNE, II
DATE: OCTOBER 11, 1996
RE: THE CASE FOR CHARACTER

"Bill Clinton would rather climb a tree to tell a lie than stand on the ground to tell the truth." So said an Arkansas official familiar with Clinton on CNN during the 1992 presidential campaign. Democrat Senator Bob Kerry has said, "Clinton's an unusually good liar. Unusually good. Do you realize that?" Senator Kerry did not make this observation during the heat of a primary battle but this past January in Esquire Magazine. Kerry is not only a Democrat Senator but is a leader of his party and Chairman of the Democrat Senatorial Campaign Committee. Senator Kerry knows whereof he speaks.

Forget what this says about Clinton - what does it say about us. We are told that Clinton is leading by a significant margin in his campaign to be our next president. (51% to Dole's 38% according to last week's Wall Street Journal/ABC poll.) We are told that "character" does not count. We are told that a candidate's "personal life" has no relevance to the office of President and has no "traction" as a political issue. Indeed, we are even made to feel ashamed for raising the issue. (On July 15th Clinton said, "I think character is a legitimate issue and I look forward to having that discussion." But, whenever the issue of character is mentioned Clinton dodges the discussion by claiming any question about his character is a viscous, Republican- motivated "personal attack.")

Consider the current bestseller list. A list which includes an astounding number of books about the corruption which is the Clinton administration. Boy Clinton, Unlimited Access and Blood Sport are only a few. But let's concede Clinton the benefit of his denials and explanations. Even by this analysis, in the light most favorable to Clinton and taking only those facts Clinton has acknowledged and granting him his spin on these facts, Clinton is far and away the most dishonest president or presidential candidate in the history of our nation.

Assume that only 10% of what these noted authors and a career FBI agent relate about Bill Clinton is valid. Assume that only 10% of the drug use, rampant promiscuity, financial fraud and blatant violation of state and federal law are accurate. Assume only 10% of the Wall Street Journal's four-year, two-volume documentation of Whitewater, Travelgate and FBI Filegate is not innuendo and conjecture. Assume that Clinton's unlikely explanation of Whitewater is correct. (It wasn't a crooked deal to funnel taxpayer guaranteed funds from a Savings and Loan into his political campaign. Rather, we are told, Bill and Hillary, naive in matters of money -- notwithstanding Hillary's wildly successful commodities speculation -- were duped by the crafty McDougalls into a foolish real estate investment scheme funded by kited checks and illegal loans. Frankly, even if valid, I fail to find any comfort in this explanation. Do we want a sharp crook or a financially unsophisticated waif in charge of our national economy?) Granted even these assumptions, impeachment should be likely, reelection unthinkable. Consider the following:

> Richard Nixon's administration collapsed, Nixon resigned the presidency and Chuck Colson was jailed over misuse of one FBI file and the related cover-up. By contrast, Clinton and Craig Livingstone spirited away FBI files on their political opponents by the hundreds and the cover-up and stone-walling continues.

> Spiro Agnew resigned the vice-presidency over charges of tax evasion stemming from $16,000 he accepted from contractors when he was Governor of Maryland. By contrast, Clinton has conceded that he filed misleading tax returns that did not properly disclose illegal loans made by a now-defunct S&L the proceeds of which were used in his campaign for Governor. The reason he is not charged with tax evasion is that he released the tax returns after the statute of limitations had expired. Equally well established is the fact that Hillary enjoyed more than $100,000 in "profits" steered to her from commodities trading orchestrated by Tyson Foods in exchange for favorable treatment accorded Tyson Foods by her husband the Governor.

> Gary Hart bowed out of the 1988 presidential race because of one wild weekend in the Bahamas and a sleep-over in Washington D.C.. By contrast, Clinton is being sued in federal court for enticing a young woman - against her wishes -- into his hotel room, dropping his trousers and suggesting she engage in a lurid sex act. Clinton's known sex-partners could form a single-file line longer than the inaugural parade route. (At least JFK was honest about his philandering. During a 1961 meeting in Bermuda with British Prime Minister Harold McMillian Kennedy said, "I wonder how it is with you, Harold? If I don't have a woman for three days, I get terrible headaches.")

> Ginsburg is not a member of the U.S. Supreme Court because he used marijuana during college. By contrast, during Clinton's term national drug use has doubled due to Clinton eviscerating drug enforcement. Remember also Josalyn Elders, Clinton's selection for Surgeon General. In addition to her crusade to distribute condoms (for which she earned the moniker "the Rubber Maid") and to have masturbation taught in public schools, she campaigned for the legalization of drugs. During her term as Clinton's Surgeon General, Elders son was convicted of felony cocaine and crack distribution. (If she couldn't keep her own son from pushing crack, how could she be expected to reduce national drug use?) It is simply beyond belief that, with someone of Elder's views as his pick for the nation's chief medical officer, Clinton expects us to believe he truly wants to battle illegal drugs.

On a personal level Clinton acknowledges that he used marijuana but claims he "didn't inhale". Yet in an MTV interview with high school students Clinton states that if he had it do over again he, "probably should have inhaled." Roger Clinton described his brother's appetite for cocaine by stating, "He (Bill Clinton) has a nose like a Hoover." (Referring to the vacuum cleaner not the president. who preceded Roosevelt.) But, we can discount this allegation because Roger Clinton, along with Friend Of Bill Dan Lasater, have been convicted of felony drug charges for the distribution of cocaine.

(As an entry for the "How'd They Do That" file consider this: Roger Clinton served only two years for his cocaine distribution charges and Dan Lasater only six months. Roger cut a deal with the prosecutor to testify against Lasater. Lasater was convicted but pardoned by Governor Clinton. (Clinton says the pardon was so Lassater could qualify for a hunting license.) However, even as Lasater was being investigated for drug dealing Clinton's Arkansas Finance Authority awarded Lasater authority to underwrite a $30 million bond issue. An undertaking for which Lasater pocketed $750,000. The purpose of this bond issue for which the state of Arkansas awarded $750,000 to a drug dealer? An Arkansas state police communication facility. Clinton's pardon of Lasater raises an interesting point. Why won't Clinton promise to not pardon Susan McDougal (who is currently in jail because she refuses to testify about Clnton's role in the Whitewater scandal) and other Whitewater defendants? Clinton has already indicated a willingness to put the power of a presidential pardon to a personal purpose. Clinton has pardoned Jack Pakis a Hot Springs, Arkansas bookie and close friend of the Clinton family.

Given this, why is Clinton the favored candidate for president? Have our standards for the office of president fallen this far this fast? What does it say about us and our esteem for our nation that we would trust Bill Clinton with the United State of America.

A question should be asked of each vice-presidential candidate in the upcoming debate. "Would you want your daughter to marry a man with the personal character of your running mate?" Recall the question to Mike Dukasis about how he would view the death penalty if his wife Kitty was raped. Well, why not a similar question to Hillary. How would she feel if Chelsea brought home a boyfriend with the same character and integrity as Bill Clinton? (Some may be upset with me for bringing Hillary into the discussion. After all, they may retort, she is not running for office. Would it have been fair they ask to deny Lincoln the presidency because Mary Todd was a lunatic? To which I reply, Yes, if Lincoln had threatened to put Mary Todd in charge of the Union Army as Clinton tried to do with Hillary and health care.)

Two responses, and only two responses, are possible. One, all the charges against Clinton are false and Clinton is, in truth, a noble and honest - though much maligned - man. (This is the official White House position.) Two, the charges are, in whole or part, true but it just doesn't matter. Clinton's character is irrelevant to his fitness to serve as president.

If you opt for option number one, "Clinton is a wrongly-maligned honest man", than you probably also thought O.J. Simpson was framed. Halley Barber's line, "Clinton may not believe anything but his friends have convictions - for bank fraud, embezzlement, conspiracy..." resonates because it is true.

Two-thirds of the Rose law firm, the source of Clinton's closest colleagues including his wife, are either dead under suspicious circumstances (Vince Foster), in jail after serving in the Clinton administration (Webster Hubble) or under indictment or investigation by a special prosecutor (William Kennedy). A similar fate has befallen many of Clinton's other top advisors. Housing Secretary Henry Cisneros and Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy subject to independent counsel investigation; former Commerce Secretary Ron Brown subject to an independent counsel investigation prior to his death; Clinton understudy and friend Arkansas Governor Guy Tucker and Clinton business partners Jim and Susan McDougal jailed for 24 count conviction for bank fraud and conspiracy. Clinton testified on behalf of the McDougals and Governor Tucker. After the trial, jurors told reporters that they did not believe Clinton's testimony and several jurors stated that, based upon the evidence they considered, Clinton was definitely involved in the wrongdoing.

It is simply not possible to consider the incredible number of Friends Of Bill who are under indictment, under investigation by independent counsel, in jail or awaiting sentencing and conclude that all the charges against Clinton are false.

Clinton apologists reply that it is unfair to paint Clinton with the same brush as his jailed colleagues. Democrat Senator Chris Dodd claims that to view Clinton in light of his friends is to engage in "guilt by association". These defenders argue that Clinton has just suffered the misfortune of being surrounded by dishonest people and is not, himself, dishonest. This explanation, even if credible, is of little comfort. Do we want as president a man so lacking in judgment that he has a profoundly uncanny ability to choose as his closest advisors a collection of crooks and felons.

Bluntly put, Bill Clinton is an unmitigated, dissembling liar. What Clinton says is meant to deceive not to inform. During an interview on September 23rd with PBS's Jim Lehrer Clinton said, "There is not a single solitary shred of evidence of anything dishonest that I have done in my public life." Most of us hearing this proclamation would understand it to be a blanket denial of any wrongdoing. Clinton clearly intended to communicate this understanding. However, reread Clinton's statement. "There is not a single solitary shred of evidence...." Clinton does not deny dishonesty, rather he denies that there is any evidence of his dishonesty. Quite a different proposition. Continuing with a further qualification Clinton said, "...that I have done in my public life." The injection of "public life" presumes a distinction with Clinton's private life. Given the mountainous evidence of Clinton's dishonesty, we can only conclude that Clinton believes using drugs, funding his Arkansas gubernatorial campaigns, funding his presidential campaign, managing the WhiteHouse travel office and FBI files and formulating national policy are all part of his private life.

Option Two, "Clinton is dishonest but character doesn't count when choosing the President", is equally untenable. Consider the purpose of the election. For starters, this November we will decide who will take the constitutionally prescribed oath next January. A candidate for president does not become president by winning the election. The candidate must also take the oath of office and does not become president until he does so. (Recall the photograph of Lyndon Johnson taking the oath of office in Air Force One on the tarmac in Dallas standing next to a blood- splattered Jackie Kennedy.)

We do not make much of oaths now days. Yet, the men who crafted our form of government, founded our nation and authored the Constitution placed great significance on oaths and, correspondingly, the integrity of the individual taking the oath. A man's honesty and integrity were vitally important to our founding fathers. Thomas Jefferson, founder of the Democrat party, wrote, "We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor." Of what value is Bill Clinton's "sacred honor" and to what cause would he pledge it? (Obviously not his wife, nor his country when called to military service.) More importantly, would you believe him if he did?

This is a more troubling question for my principled liberal friends. (Especially for those who make so much of Republican scandals whether it be Watergate, Iran- Contra or the Teapot Dome.) The most outrageous Republican is a piker compared to the mythomaniacs, miscreants and poltroons which populate the Clinton administration. (Will someone please tell me George Stephanopoulos's job description and how whatever it is he does furthers the legitimate business of the presidency.)

Those Democrats who support Clinton (and their allies in the media who overlook the Clinton scandals) have lost the right to ever again mention Watergate, Iran-Contra or any other allegation of Republican corruption.

Most liberals acknowledge Clinton's fundamental dishonesty. However, they appear willing to tolerate or overlook his moral failings because they believe Clinton will advance a liberal ideology and Bob Dole will oppose the liberal's agenda. But, in choosing Clinton as their standard bearer, what are liberals saying about their own integrity and the validity of their ideology?

How can the noble ideals proffered by the liberal be reconciled with the tawdry and untrustworthy reputation of their candidate? What does is say about the validity of liberalism that the adherents chosen advocate is a consummate fraud? In choosing Clinton as their candidate (a candidate who liberals support because they believe he will govern with a liberal bent even though he publicly campaigns as a conservative) aren't liberals saying that their agenda is best advanced by disguising and concealing their ideology and, by implication, recognizing that if American voters truly appreciated the liberal agenda they will reject the ideology?

If I believed I had a worthy policy to advance I would not choose an unworthy spokesman to advance the policy lest the message be sullied by the messenger. If I was trying to sell a drug to cure cancer I wouldn't choose Jack Kavorkian to be my spokesman.

Indeed, Clinton's failure to keep the faith even with political bed-mates is why two high-ranking administration officials resigned when Clinton signed the Republican welfare reform bill. A bill that Clinton had previously promised to veto. Abandoning Clinton is the only rational response available to honest liberals who truly believe in the merits of their ideology.

Others don't defend Clinton but disparage us. They argue: "So what if Clinton lies, uses drugs and cheats on his spouse, most American's behave this way and it is hypocritical to hold a leader to a standard higher than the standard by which we measure our own behavior."

While I don't agree that Clinton's behavior is characteristic of the typical American, I will grant this point for the sake of argument. Granted even that assertion, I dispute the central premise. Americans aspire to greatness and have always been an optimistic people. Our leaders should be the best from among us not the worst.

A far sadder event than a second Clinton term will be a second Clinton term because a majority of Americans believe a man of Clinton's integrity is representative of the character of our nation.

It has been said that hypocrisy is vice's tribute to virtue. Well, if so, Clinton should be Master of Ceremonies hosting a Telethon for Virtue. Within hours of being elected president Clinton proclaimed that his administration would be the most ethical ever. This promise was made in the context of Clinton's campaign attacks upon the Bush administration for, what Clinton claimed was, unethical behavior such as the State Department official who allegedly tried to pull Clinton's visa file and document Clinton's trip to the Soviet Union during the time Clinton was leading anti-American rallies overseas. Clinton was "shocked" at the Bush campaign's "outrageous" use of official personnel and records to gain an advantage on a political adversary. Clinton can not understand, however, why everyone seems so exercised about the hundreds of FBI files on Republican opponents he and Craig Livingston have squirreled away in the White House.

What does it mean when the victor of this fall's campaign will take the oath of office to lead our nation into the next millennium? For me I want to believe the man who places his hand on the Bible and says, "I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

November 5th is national examination day. The question is one of character. Not Clinton's character but our character; our character as a nation and as individual voters. And, if the answer is Bill Clinton, we all fail.

Mark F. (Thor) Hearne, II
Thornet@ix.netcom.com
October 11, 1996
Permission is granted to freely copy and distribute this memorandum.
04-07-2003 07:25 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
rickheel Offline
The Old Bastard
*

Posts: 8,468
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation: 11
I Root For: Heels
Location:

Donators
Post: #9
 
Retired Col. Eugene Holmes, then the commander of the Army ROTC program at the University of Arkansas, was quoted in Thursday's Wall Street Journal as saying that Clinton, then a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford University in England, "was able to manipulate things" so that he was not conscripted in the fall of 1969. He told the paper that Clinton had misled him into thinking he would be returning to Arkansas within a couple of months, rather than spending the entire academic year in England.
04-07-2003 07:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RochesterFalcon Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,626
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 3
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #10
 
:rolleyes:

Clinton has been out of office for two years now. At what point are you folks going to give these lies, distortions and half-truths a rest?





<!--EDIT|RochesterFalcon|Apr 7 2003, 08:50 AM-->
04-07-2003 08:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Guest
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #11
 
Particularly since the current (P)resident has more than his own share of skeletons AND nowhere near the track record of successes. Quite the contrary, actually. Or, is that the point for you folks?
04-07-2003 09:13 AM
Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


rickheel Offline
The Old Bastard
*

Posts: 8,468
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation: 11
I Root For: Heels
Location:

Donators
Post: #12
 
I heard everything I need to hear when he came out with "I did not inhale". :rolleyes:



<!--EDIT|rickheel|Apr 7 2003, 09:28 AM-->
04-07-2003 09:21 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Guest
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #13
 
Same here when Shrub traded Sammy Sosa. What a jeenyus!
04-07-2003 09:41 AM
Quote this message in a reply
RochesterFalcon Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,626
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 3
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #14
 
Is anyone suggesting Bush *didn't* inhale?
04-07-2003 11:15 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
rickheel Offline
The Old Bastard
*

Posts: 8,468
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation: 11
I Root For: Heels
Location:

Donators
Post: #15
 
Ah, but you see, there is the "rub". He did not think we are a bunch of morons. He admitted what he did. Unlike, mr I did not have sex with that woman. :rolleyes: Sorry, we are not all soccer moms.
04-07-2003 12:39 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Guest
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #16
 
GWB lied about his drunk driving (a much more heinous crime against society than a hummer, imo) to protect his family and career. Same reasons as Clinton. That doesn't concern you?

How about these?

"In 2002, our economy was still recovering from the attacks of September the 11th, 2001, and it was pulling out of a recession that began before I took office."

"I absolutely had no idea and would not have sold it had I known."
(referring to his Harken stock sale)

"I've been to war. I've raised twins. If I had a choice, I'd rather go to war."

Oh, wait...none of those pertain to his personal life, do they? THAT's all that matters.
04-07-2003 01:28 PM
Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


RochesterFalcon Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,626
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 3
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #17
 
Quote:He did not think we are a bunch of morons. He admitted what he did.

Actually, he has just declined to answer questions about marijuana or cocaine.
04-07-2003 01:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
nate jonesacc Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,215
Joined: Mar 2002
Reputation: 6
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #18
 
Oddball Wrote:Same here when Shrub traded Sammy Sosa. What a jeenyus!
He's a politician not a brilliant baseball expert. What he does know has nothing to do with Sammy Sosa, the White Sox or baseball. :rolleyes:
04-07-2003 04:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JoltinJacket Offline
The Resident Stat Machine
*

Posts: 13,021
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation: 24
I Root For: Georgia Tech
Location: Atlanta, GA

SkunkworksHall of FameCrappies
Post: #19
 
RochesterFalcon Wrote::rolleyes:

Clinton has been out of office for two years now. At what point are you folks going to give these lies, distortions and half-truths a rest?
Well if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black. Clinton has been out of office for two years. Bush has been in office for those same two years but you still refuse to call him your president. You're still holding a grudge because your boy Gore got the shaft. At what point are you folks going to give these distortions a rest?
04-07-2003 04:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
rickheel Offline
The Old Bastard
*

Posts: 8,468
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation: 11
I Root For: Heels
Location:

Donators
Post: #20
 
You know, it really pales in comparison to mr foster........


if you go on Google and type Clinton's lies........WOW!!!!!!!!!

July 1991: Question: "Have you ever used Marijuana or any illegal drugs?" Answer: "I've never broken any drug law." - Arkansas Gazette, July 24th, 1991, p. 8B
Asked this 3 times, on 3 separate occasions, by 3 different interviewers, your Great White Hope repeated this claim. Until faced with irrefutable proof, that is.

Then he said:

March 29th, 1992: "I've never broken a state law. But when I was in England I experimented with marijuana a time or two..."

Later, in that same interview, "No one has ever asked me that question point-blank."

- The New York Times, March 30th, 1992, p.A15.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Jan. 19, 1992 Bill Clinton said, "I want to make it very clear that this middle-class tax cut, in my view, is central to any attempt we're going to make to have a short-term economic strategy."

But on Jan. 14, 1993 at a press conference, Bill Clinton said, "From New Hampshire forward, for reasons that absolutely mystified me, the press thought the most important issue in the race was the middle-class tax cut. "I never did meet any voter who thought that."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sept. 8,1992, Bill Clinton said, "The only people who will pay more income taxes are the wealthiest 2 percent, those living in households making over $200,000 a year."

In response to a Bush-Quayle ad that people with incomes of as little as $36,000 would pay more taxes under the Clinton plan, Bill Clinton said on Oct. 1, 1992, "It's a disgrace to the American people that the president (Bush) of the United States would make a claim that is so baseless, that is so without foundation, so shameless in its attempt to get votes under false pretenses."

Yet the NY TIMES in the analysis of Clinton's budget wrote, "There are tax increases for every family making more than $20,000 a year!"

"While Clinton continued to defend his middle-class tax cut publicly, he privately expressed the view to his advisers that it was intellectually dishonest." (The Agenda, by Bob Woodward, p. 31)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Business Week, July 6, 1992, Bill Clinton was quoted as saying, "When I began the campaign, the projected deficit was $250 billion. Now its up to $400 billion."

However in Time Magazine. 2 weeks later, Bill Clinton was quoted as saying, "When I started in New Hampshire working with those numbers, we felt the deficit was going to be around $250 billion a year, not $400 billion." Which is it, Bill?

But then he said on Feb. 10, 1993, "The deficit of this country is about $50 billion a year bigger than I was told it was going to be before the election." --our President said this after "discovering" that the deficit was $290 billion, $110 Billion LESS than he had claimed in July! Which story are we to believe from our president??


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

President Clinton said on March 23, 1993 at a press conference: "M economic package will cut $500 billion from the deficit in five years." Yet the projected deficit in 1998 with Clinton's budget is $234 billion, the projected deficit in 2001 with Clinton budget is $401 billion.(These figures come from Bill Clinton's budget document, "A Vision of Change for America."-Feb. 1993.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wall Street Journal Opinion-Editorial Page 2/21/95
NUMBERS GAME

It's the season to cut government, or at least to claim to, so we perked up when we heard President Clinton declare in his State of the Union address that he had cut (quote) more than 100,000 positions from the federal bureaucracy in the last two years alone (unquote).

As they say in detective work, interesting - if true. So we decided to pull out the new federal budget to check. What we discovered is that Mr. Clinton isn't lying, but he isn't telling the whole truth either. His speeches need an asterisk.

From 1993 to Fiscal Year 1996, the Clinton Administration will in fact have cut the federal government by 157,000 full-time positions. But there's a catch: 131,000 of those positions are civilian Defense jobs. Those cuts reflect the inevitable post-cold War decline in military spending, not some brave retrenchment in the overall size of government.

There's another catch: Of the 26,000 positions to be cut from the non-Defense side of Leviathan, 9,500 come from the Resolution Trust Corp. and Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. Those two banking agencies grew like Topsy to manage the savings and loan debacle, but are now cutting back as the bailout ends. The RTC is even supposed to go out of business this year. The bottom line is that over the course of the Clinton presidency, the non-Defense, non-S&L part of the government will cut a measly 16,500 full-time positions out of some 1.2 million. In essence the domestic government is conducting business as usual.

Mr. Clinton also says he's making the federal establishment (quote) the smallest it has been since John Kennedy was President (unquote). But again, excluding Defense, total executive branch employment will be 1,181,000 in 1996. Back in 1963, when JFK was President, total non-Defense employment was a mere 861,000. Maybe that should be the 1996 goal for Republican budget- cutters; they could say they got the idea from the President.

Are you referring to the guy who absolutely, positively guaranteed that if he was elected governor of Arkansas in 1990 he would serve 4 years? The one who said that a 4% income tax rate on the wealthiest 2% of the population would raise 165 billion dollars, reduce the deficit, and allow a middle class tax cut? The one who claimed that the republicans had killed the Lani Guinier nomination? The one who claimed that he had decided to make himself available to the draft after 4 acquaintances were killed in Viet Nam (rather than after his birthday had been drawn #311 in the draft lottery)? The one who claimed that "affirmative action "benefits white men?

Are you referring to that Clinton?

No, he said that the new gasoline tax (4 cent per gallon) would go to a deficit reduction trust fund. No such fund has been established to date... it is going to the general fund to fund their increased social programs... check it out... call the government accounting office and ask... they are stealing your money...

And I give you my word to do it without the blame game of the last twelve years of Reagan and Bush.

Good, OOPS, that lasted almost a whole day!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The NY Times reported that people earning under $100,000 paid an additional $3 billion in '94.

But wait, Clinton and the media claimed that only the top 2% were going to pay more taxes. Was that another lie from the Clinton administration?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

According to liberal Democrats, anyone who makes a dollar more than you is the "rich". On the issue of "taxes on the rich", consider the following:

Most of the "rich" are smart business men & women... they own and run their own businesses. In addition, Clinton passed a 1% increase in corporate income taxes...

If you owned your own business, or if you were the CFO of a corporation, and your cost of doing business went up, what would you do ? You'd pass this cost on...

Should they feel the heat, so to speak, they pass the new costs on to the principle consumers of the goods and services they offer...The middle-class and poor....So who really is paying Clinton's new taxes ?

As the saying goes. "When the "rich" get a sniffle, the middle-class catches pneumonia."

The real problem with this attack on the rich is the underlying assumption that this is a static class of people. Not so.

A great many people start off "poor" and as they move up in the business world become successful and eventually become what the Democrats would currently characterize as "rich." Indeed most of the wealth in this country is in the hands of senior citizens. Many of these people at one time had no money at all.

So, the attack on the rich is not an attack on some evil group. Its mostly an attack on people who after much sacrifice and hard work have finally reached their peak earning years and are trying to enjoy and pass on the fruits of their labor.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There were many other Clinton proposals that didn't fly (thank you) which would have further parted people from their capital....Here's a couple of winners he proposed in 1992....

Imputed rent...You would pay tax on "rent" that you would have collected FROM YOURSELF...Tax real, only...NO RENTAL INCOME !!!!!

Lower the inheritance threshold...From about $650,000 to around $200,000. What has been an exclusive tax of the rich, Clinton wanted to give as a gift to the middle-class...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsweek reports that Clinton and the Democrats will no longer pursue the rich vs. middle class America class warfare strategy. They realize that it won't help them politically and, according to Newsweek, "President Clinton...doesn't really believe in it."

Newsweek noted that they are abandoning it, so apparently, they do not agree, nor do their sources. Clinton has been bashing the rich since his campaign, claiming disingenuously that they are not paying their "fair share" of taxes, i.e. falsely implying that they are paying less than they did in '80. Hillary went after the "greedy" pharmaceutical companies, after selling their stock short. They have made many self-serving moralistic statements about the "greed" of the '80's. Clinton and the Democrats condemn Republican. tax cut plans because they claim it will "help the rich."

If this is not class warfare, what is?

Clinton has pursued this strategy for about 3 years, and now he claims he **doesn't really believe in it?** Hey, I'll buy that!

Newsweek reported it as "news." How strangely non-judgmental that they would not question the sincerity of Clinton's claim when his actions speak otherwise.

Clinton's economic policies ???

1) A massive tax increase

2) "Hope" that interest rates would remain low

3) A few R & D credits for Al Gore's pet high tech industries

Was there anything else ?

In reference to the Social Security trust fund --

"But its important that we not panic; there is no immediate danger to retirement. Our accumulated surpluses would be sufficient to pay the liabilities to 2029 at current payroll tax rates."

From an interview; published in the May '95 issue of Money magazine.

Hasn't anyone told him that the Social Security trust fund has no money -- Congress borrowed it all and left IOUs with no plans yet on how to redeem those IOU's?

Given that Clinton seems so concerned about the hateful rhetoric in: politics these days, I wonder if he intends to limits such violent: statements as "taking food from the mouths of children", "war on the poor", "throwing the elderly out on the streets", and "contract _on_ America, Evil, Extreme, Mean Spirited and on and on and on.

We've given more power to states and localities and to private citizens. Our proposals would further accelerate those trends. Bill Clinton, White House press conference, 3/3/95

Fact: Clinton lobbied to defeat the Balance Budget Amendment in the Senate, so states and localities are prevented from getting the chance to even debate the amendment. His Administration opposes giving block grants to the states. He is opposing all Block Grants as well.

We support adding 100,000 new police officers. Bill Clinton, same news conference.

Fact: There are no "100,000 police officers". Never has been, never will be. Even liberal columnist DeWayne Wickam concluded in USA Today: "Many of the 100,00 cops promised in the crime bill will never materialize". On the day AFTER Clinton signed the bill into law, The New York Times reported that "some law enforcement analyst said the Administration has in effect misled local officials by vastly overstating the number of police officers who can be hired under the program".

It's called lying where I come from, how about where you came from?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone knows that I have tougher ethic rules than any other President. Bill Clinton, news conference 3/3/95 defending the ethical standards of his administration.

Fact: In addition to his own Whitewater troubles and many high-level resignations, several members of his cabinet are currently facing probes in their conduct, including four "Special Prosecutors..

The budget which came from the President said,, I've given up; that as long I am President of the United States there will never be a balanced budget. That is an astonishing statement. Paul Tsongas, at a Capitol Hill press conference, 2/7/95.

Clinton said, "Who do these people think they are?" referring to people who stockpile guns, "No other government in the world would allow their citizens to do that."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How about this!

Sara Brady was quoted in several papers and magazines at an Hand Gun Incorporated rally a couple of weeks before the Senate vote saying..." Our main agenda is to have ALL guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort facts or even lie.

"Our task of creating a Socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed." -- Sarah Brady (President of Handgun Control, Inc. and wife of James Brady, whom the Brady Bill was named for and was recently "honored" by Clinton)

Democratic Rep. David Obey said "I think most of us learned some time ago that if you don't like the president's position on a particular issue, you simply need to wait a few weeks."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Foreign Policy?

Well, let's see, start with Somalia. It's not the first, but its one of the best known. In the winter of 1992 George Bush ordered US troops to guard food shipments in and around the ports. The deployment ended in March, a resounding success. A couple of months later Clinton got suckered into sending the Marines back in as 'nation builders'. In the course of which he deliberately violated Executive Orders of the Presidency not to engage in deliberate or willful assassination of foreign political or military leaders; you DO remember the AC130 gunships firing wildly into civilian occupied apartment buildings, in an effort to murder a Somali warlord and his followers, don't you? I didn't think so. Long term memory is not a strong suite of the Clintonestae.

Want a small disaster? At the opening of the Holocaust Memorial, 1993. A luncheon was served afterwards for the distinguished Jewish guests and foreign dignitaries. The main entree' was Honey baked Ham.

Bosnia. Bosnia is always good for a laugh. On the campaign trail, Candidate Clinton said that he was qualified as Commander In Chief of the Arkansas National Guard to make military decisions. As an example, he bragged that if he were elected, he would bomb the Serbs. In May of 1993, he sent Warren Christopher to convince the Europeans to allow him to do just that. Christopher went with the 'strongest message possible' to urge England, France, and Germany that he was fully committed to this course. Even as the Secretary of State was waiting to meet with them in Geneva, Your Great White Hope appeared on the tube and said that 'bombing the Serbs probably wouldn't be necessary'. Warren Christopher is not noted for emotional displays: Some have suggested that he has had the centers in his brain responsible for emotion surgically removed. After Christopher heard what Fearless Leader did, he ALMOST cracked a frown. The Europeans went ballistic. This year Clinton pushed the bombing schtick again to make himself look tougher than the average weenie and we all know what happened: The Serbs have basically gone on to conquer Bosnia. In that sad country you now have Serbian held territory and UN funded and run Serbian concentration camps disguised as 'safe havens'. The only reason these haven't been overrun is the Serbs haven't got the vaguest idea what to do with the refugees huddled in them.

"OH!" you shriek hysterically, "PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS HAVE HAD FAILURES, TOO! IT'S NOT FAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIRRRRR THAT BILL

CLINTON IS BEING JUDGED SO HARSHLY!!!!" Previous administrations had more successes than failures. George Bush built an international coalition to defeat Iraq in the Gulf War - even got the Arabs to talk to the Israelis afterwards. Ronald Reagan stopped the advance of Marxism in this hemisphere and cracked the will of the Soviets hard-liners to continue the Cold War. Carter, whatever else he may have failed at, can always look back at the Camp David Accords. Ford wasn't President long enough to do more than handle domestic problems, but Nixon reopened the dialogue with China. And so on back through American history. Yes, they had failures, but never were so many failures in so short a time the result of INCREDIBLE INCOMPETENCE by an Administration.

Dan Rather responding to congratulations to him and Connie Chung during and interview shortly after they teamed up together, "If we could be one-hundredth as gret as you and Hillary Rodham Clinton have been together in the White House," the supposedly objective newsman said, "we'd take it right now and walk away winners."

"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans"

- President Clinton (USA TODAY, 11 March 1993, page 2A)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vice President Al Gore's interview on ABC's "This Week with David Brinkley," Sunday, August 25, 1996

Vice President Al Gore made a number of assertions during this interview which we feel require additional clarification.

Medicare

"Beyond that, the Republican Party, specifically Speaker Gingrich, said that he wanted to make changes that would cause Medicare to wither on the vine." --Al Gore, ABC's "This Week with David Brinkley," 8/25/96

Wrong! Al Gore quoted Speaker Gingrich out of context. What the Speaker actually said was:

"Okay, what do you think the Health Care Financing Administration is? It's a centralized command bureaucracy. It's everything we're telling Boris Yeltzin to get rid of. Now we don't get rid of it in round one because we don't think that's politically smart. We don't think that's the right way to go through a transition. But we believe its going to wither on the vine because we think people are voluntarily going to leave it -- voluntarily." --Speaker Newt Gingrich, remarks to Blue Cross/Blue Shield conference, 10/24/95

In their 1992 campaign, Clinton and Gore endorsed scrapping the Health Care Financing Administration:

"We will scrap the Health Care Financing Administration and replace it with a health standards board -- made up of consumers, providers, business, labor and government -- that will establish annual health budget targets and outline a core benefits package." --Bill Clinton and Al Gore, Putting People First, 1992


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

100,000 Cops

"The president has formed an alliance with the law enforcement officers around this country and experts in fighting crime, passed legislation, over the opposition of Senator Dole and Speaker Gingrich, that is now putting 100,000 extra community police officers on the streets." --Al Gore, ABC's "This Week with David Brinkley," 8/25/96

Wrong again!

"What I am advised is that there are 17,000 officers that can be identified as being on the streets." --Attorney General Janet Reno, media availability, 5/16/96

Worse, not all of these cops are fighting crime:

"At least $7.2 million in COPS grants has been used to hire 86 officers for state parks, marinas and other areas seemingly far removed from violent crime." --Investor's Business Daily, 7/16/96

Reducing government

"We have downsized the federal government during the last four years by 250,000 people." --Al Gore, ABC's "This Week with David Brinkley," 8/25/96

What Gore didn't say was that Clinton accomplished this by gutting Defense:

"President Clinton's plan three years ago to 'reinvent' government and cut the federal work force by nearly 252,000 jobs never mentioned that the military would absorb 75 percent of the cuts." --The Washington Times, 8/23/96


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The national debt

"The debt, which was just ballooning out of control under the previous two administrations, has now been cut by 60 percent." --Al Gore, ABC's "This Week with David Brinkley," 8/25/96

Wrong! According to statistics released in February, 1996 by Clinton's own Office of Management and Budget, the gross federal debt for fiscal year 1992 was $4.002 trillion. By fiscal year 1995 it had "ballooned" to $4.921 trillion -- an increase of 23 percent.

Bill Clinton during a visit in Italy, to his hosts: "Just think, we are walking on the very ground where Romulus and Remus walked".

-- Bill Clinton (They are fictional characters)

"There is a feeling among reporters that the truth and Clinton don't often go together. Reporters have a feeling he is a man without conviction." -- Ken Auletta, a media columnist for the New Yorker


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
04-07-2003 04:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.