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Bill denies defense funding to colleges
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ccs178 Offline
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Bill denies defense funding to colleges

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The House moved Tuesday to deny defense-related funding to universities that don't provide ROTC programs and military recruiters equal access to their campuses. Opponents said the bill was an assault on university policies banning gay discrimination.

Under the legislation, passed 343-81, universities would have to give military recruiters access to campus and to students that is equal in quality and scope as that provided to other employers.

It also requires that colleges with ROTC programs submit an annual report to the Secretary of Defense confirming they will continue to support those programs.

The measure, sponsored by Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Alabama, expands on a 1995 law denying Pentagon funds to universities that prohibit military recruiters' access to campus. That law, named after the late Rep. Gerald Solomon, R-New York, was later revised to withhold Pentagon funding for "anti-ROTC" policies and to add other agencies with national security and homeland security programs to the list of those that may deny grants to colleges.

Rogers' bill would add to that list the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Nuclear Security Administration in the Energy Department.

Rep. Christopher Cox, R-California, chairman of the House Select Committee on Homeland Security and a Harvard graduate, said the legislation "might just as well be called the 'Harvard Act' because it squarely addresses the scandal of Harvard University and other schools banishing ROTC and military recruiters from campus while turning around and cashing Uncle Sam's checks for billions of dollars each year."

He said Harvard, like other campuses around the country, banished ROTC during the Vietnam War era.

A statement issued by a Harvard spokesperson noted that "military recruiters have direct access to our students on the Harvard campus, consistent with the law. In addition, Harvard students continue to participate in ROTC programs down the street at MIT, through a cooperative arrangement among several universities"

Critics of the legislation, which still must be considered by the Senate, said it penalizes those institutions that restrict groups, including the military, that don't offer equal opportunities to gays and lesbians.

"It's designed to force universities to violate their own policies against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation," said Rep. Martin Meehan, D-Massachusetts.

They also questioned giving the Secretary of Defense the authority to determine if a college is providing equal access.

The secretary, said Rep. James McGovern, D-Massachusetts, serves as prosecutor, judge and jury without an independent or neutral arbiter.

House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Illinois, said the bill was important because, in a time of war, the military needs access to the best and brightest minds in the country. He noted that recruiters at some universities "are isolated to completely separate parts of the campus away from the career fairs" or not allowed at all.

Rogers said his bill grew out of a November 2003 decision by the U.S. District Court in New Jersey that rejected the claims of a group of law schools that the Solomon Law was unconstitutional but also found that the law nowhere states that military recruiters must be given the same degree of access as provided to other employers.

Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.



Find this article at:
<a href='http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/03/31/college.military.ap/index.html' target='_blank'>http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/03/31/co...y.ap/index.html</a>
03-31-2004 05:04 PM
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joebordenrebel Offline
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Post: #2
 
Hey, can we go ahead and reinstitute the draft, too?

Let's stop focking around and get serious about being a fascist state!
04-02-2004 06:45 PM
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DukeofDrums Offline
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I don't see a problem with the original article.
04-07-2004 11:59 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #4
 
The only problem is why is there a separate bill for this?

Universities can have federal funding withheld or be sued if they don't provide equal sports teams/access for women according to their proportionality of enrollment...

they can be sued if they get rid of drug addicts...

Why isn't military recruitment simply part of the free speech that universities so proudly promote?
04-07-2004 01:09 PM
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joebordenrebel Offline
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Post: #5
 
"Why isn't military recruitment simply part of the free speech that universities so proudly promote?"

Because the military's policy against gays is discriminatory?

I mean, I don't know much about this issue. . .come to think of it, I don't really know much at all. . .I just get on here everyday and expose my ignorance to the world for all to see. . .but, um now where was I going with this?

Oh, right. It seems to me that these same universities deny the KKK, skinheads and other groups who are based on limiting freedom. Maybe they don't. I don't know. But that seems to be a good reason for keeping the military off campus.
04-07-2004 05:55 PM
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Schadenfreude Offline
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Post: #6
 
Picture two men walking over to the ROTC office and informing the officer in charge:

"Sir, my boyfriend and I would like to join ROTC."

These two men obviously would not be accepted.

This is discrimination based on sexual orientation -- and many universities have a policy that specifically prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation.

I remember when Bowling Green updated (or added; I forget which) its policy in the early 1990s. The policy specifically exempted ROTC from the policy. It pretty much had to.

With this bill, the federal government is basically telling states to shove their antidiscrimination policies up their asses.

Conservatives often have a great deal to say about the proper role of the federal government. Almost invariably, it is accompanied by a complaint about how liberals always want to exceed the proper role of the federal government and dictate to states decisions better left to them.

But here we have conservatives using the federal goverment to impose their vision of America on all of these united states.

It is far from the first time.
04-07-2004 08:14 PM
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DukeofDrums Offline
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Post: #7
 
Problem #1...
Schadenfreude Wrote:Picture two men walking over to the ROTC office and informing the officer in charge:

"Sir, my boyfriend and I would like to join ROTC."


Have you ever heard of "Don't ask, Don't tell?" It was signed by The Hon. Fmr. Pres. Clinton. If my memory serves correctly. If they didn't tell, they would have been accepted.


I personally do NOT believe the universities should recieve DEFENSE funding if there is not an ROTC program on campus.


Common Sense wasn't a Common Virtue.
04-08-2004 08:43 AM
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joebordenrebel Offline
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Post: #8
 
So, the "discrimination based on concealment" is a fairer doctrine?

Just because a Dem passed it doesn't make it palatable to me.
04-08-2004 09:35 AM
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Schadenfreude Offline
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Post: #9
 
DukeofDrums Wrote:Have you ever heard of "Don't ask, Don't tell?" It was signed by The Hon. Fmr. Pres. Clinton. If my memory serves correctly. If they didn't tell, they would have been accepted.
I've never heard of a university with "don't ask, don't tell" policy, though.
04-08-2004 10:05 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #10
 
Schadenfreude Wrote:Picture two men walking over to the ROTC office and informing the officer in charge:

"Sir, my boyfriend and I would like to join ROTC."

These two men obviously would not be accepted.

This is discrimination based on sexual orientation
We disagree on this. People make choices, sometimes that means they lose opportunities.

"Sexual orientation" is a choice. Again, I encourage you to read <a href='http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/080105625X/qid=1081515673/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-0227600-2914377?v=glance&s=books' target='_blank'>an excelent treatise</a> on the subject. It's far more informative than the emotional rhetoric of the 'news' media.
04-09-2004 08:01 AM
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joebordenrebel Offline
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Post: #11
 
"'Sexual orientation' is a choice."

Hey, I guess I'm just close-minded but I stopped listening as soon as I read that.

Okay, okay, if I read your b.s., will you read mine?

<a href='http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Class/his374/TheoLect.html' target='_blank'>http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Class/his374/TheoLect.html</a>

Good bunch of links on both sides of the debate here:

<a href='http://www.fsw.ucalgary.ca/ramsay/gay-lesbian-bisexual/4a-genetic-biology-gay.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.fsw.ucalgary.ca/ramsay/gay-lesb...biology-gay.htm</a>
04-09-2004 05:33 PM
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Post: #12
 
The communist's plan is finally coming to fruition. They are starting to succeed in destroying us from the inside. :D
04-09-2004 06:30 PM
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Schadenfreude Offline
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Post: #13
 
DrTorch Wrote:"Sexual orientation" is a choice.
I'll never believe this for as long as I live.

Sorry.
04-09-2004 07:07 PM
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Post: #14
 
Schadenfreude Wrote:
DrTorch Wrote:"Sexual orientation" is a choice.
I'll never believe this for as long as I live.

Sorry.
Tell us from your experience. Was it a choice for you or something you were born with? :D
04-09-2004 07:22 PM
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BTW, if it's not a choice then it's a mental illness. It goes against the order of nature. Two dudes cannot have a child. Two women cannot have a child. THAT is biology and they are, by definition, freaks of nature.
04-09-2004 07:24 PM
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Post: #16
 
RebelKev Wrote:
Schadenfreude Wrote:
DrTorch Wrote:"Sexual orientation" is a choice.
I'll never believe this for as long as I live.

Sorry.
Tell us from your experience. Was it a choice for you or something you were born with? :D
You think that's funny?
04-09-2004 09:22 PM
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Schadenfreude Offline
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RebelKev Wrote:BTW, if it's not a choice then it's a mental illness. It goes against the order of nature. Two dudes cannot have a child. Two women cannot have a child. THAT is biology and they are, by definition, freaks of nature.
<a href='http://www.salon.com/it/feature/1999/03/cov_15featurea.html' target='_blank'>http://www.salon.com/it/feature/1999/03/co...15featurea.html</a>
04-09-2004 09:22 PM
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safetyeagle Offline
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if this article is in salon it must be true. give me a break
04-09-2004 10:13 PM
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safetyeagle Wrote:if this article is in salon it must be true. give me a break
<a href='http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/0304/07animals.html' target='_blank'>http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion.../07animals.html</a>
04-10-2004 07:29 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #20
 
joebordenrebel Wrote:"'Sexual orientation' is a choice."

Hey, I guess I'm just close-minded but I stopped listening as soon as I read that.

Okay, okay, if I read your b.s., will you read mine?

<a href='http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Class/his374/TheoLect.html' target='_blank'>http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Class/his374/TheoLect.html</a>

Good bunch of links on both sides of the debate here:

<a href='http://www.fsw.ucalgary.ca/ramsay/gay-lesbian-bisexual/4a-genetic-biology-gay.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.fsw.ucalgary.ca/ramsay/gay-lesb...biology-gay.htm</a>
The second link was a page full of other links...which I didn't have time to explore all of them. The first one was interesting. A nice analysis of the base theories. However, I believe reality is a synthesis of several of these ideas...they need not be mutually-exclusive.

Don't misunderstand that when I say that, "sexual orientation is a choice," that I am denying outside influences. Frankly, culture and genetics do play a role. Those who would argue exclusively for one or the other (and ironically many Christians do this) are obfuscating the argument and wasting alot of resources.

What I am saying is, that despite influences from the outside, orientation is ultimately a choice. This choice will have consequences; some will be natural consequences, some may be imposed by the social order. An individual may dislike the latter, and try to change them, but the natural consequences will still develop.

Quote:I'll never believe this for as long as I live.

That's your choice SF. Folks held to the concept of phlogiston for a long time.
04-12-2004 08:02 AM
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