Oddball Wrote:Bring something of substance...just once, please? Pretty please?

Why? You never do. You're a bag and a half of blowhard gas. I'll respond in kind until I see a reason for something different, if not (unlikely) better.

rickheel Wrote:Sorry this thread is about Kerry. You know, the man with thousands of positions....... :wave:

Now, I know logic is over pretty much every neo-con head in here so let me see if I can put this in a way you can all understand. . .

If you accuse a man of "waffling," then the facts ought to be present to back up the charge. Otherwise, it's just mindless mudslinging.

Nevertheless, I countered with the admission that the RWAM has effectively associated "waffle" with "Kerry" (relevancy 100%).

And then I added to the discussion by calling the pot black. A thousand times as black.

(notice charge provided with Exhibit A)

Perhaps you boys can just ponder that for a while and then get back to us with a rebuttal.

OK, I will play! Check on his stand(s) on abortion...........check on his vote(s) on military funding........that will keep ya busy a while..........

Look, you're the one making the charge. At least be man enough about it to do your own digging! :roflol:

And while you're working on actually having to substantiate your argument (geez! what a pain, I know!), you can chew on this:

Bush claims to be a candidate for "working people"

<a href='http://www.georgewbush.com/News/photoalbum.aspx?gallery=13' target='_blank'>Shaking Hands with working stiffs</a>

and yet he has done more to erode workers' rights than any president since Reagan.

Dumbya:

--blocked a rule requiring that federal contracts be given only to companies without extensive criminal records on workplace violations;

--killed OSHA workplace ergonomic rules more than ten years in the making;

--required government contractors to post notices discouraging workers from joining unions;

--rescinded a rule requiring labor-relations consultants and attorneys to report their labor-busting activities to the Department of Labor;

--proposed paying welfare recipients sub-minimum wage;

--eliminated Labor Department reporting of mass layoffs and plant closings.

For the past decade or so, the increasing income disparity between the wealthy and the poor and working class has been unprecedented in U.S. history. If the average pay for production workers had risen at the level as CEO pay, the annual workers salary would be $120,491.00 - not $24,668.00. The wealthiest 1% of Americans control about 38% of America's wealth. The bottom 80% control 17% of America's wealth. The top 1% of stock owners have 48% of stock holdings.
<a href='http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1023-04.htm' target='_blank'>Is this what you call class warfare?</a>

Granted, much of that was Bill Clinton but it's only gotten worse since Bushie took office.

<a href='http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0905-02.htm' target='_blank'>Ta-Dah! More giveaway to the rich!</a>

<a href='http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0821-09.htm' target='_blank'>Hell even the dead people want Bush gone</a>

<a href='http://www.labornet.org/viewpoints/meister/bushlies.htm' target='_blank'>King George even uses 9-11 in order to bust unions</a>

Now, the left wing attack machine (is there such a thing) may not have "associated bald-faced liar" with George W. Bush, but that doesn't make the sobriquet any less appropriate.

The media and the GOPpers have been all over Kerry because he changes his mind, can't make up his mind, feels the way the breeze is blowing and heads in that direction, etc.

That is the nature of a politician. They rarely make up their minds, well until they reach a point in which they have to. All politicians, GOP, DEM, Indies, Greens, Reform, Commie, Nazi, etc. they all change their minds because no one would get any votes if they didn't coordinate their message with public opinion.

The American Republic is an always has been based on coalition and compromise. Politicians compromise their core ideology to get elected, and then they collude with other politicians in other compromises to get their pet projects through.

Bush in 2000 said a bunch of things that were not true, impossible and things he would not pursue. The media and a bunch of Bush haters in my neck of the woods complained and bellyached about it. I calmly explained that Bush's actions were those of any politician. They make claims and send out their message until they get alot of negative feedback on it, then they change their mind(s). Bush does it, Kerry does it, Nader does it, Perot did it, and every human being this world over changes their mind at some point or another.

All this waffling mud being slung at Kerry is a diversion from the real issues.

Nonetheless, Kerry is a poor candidate the Dems' establishment backed for the nomination. They should have picked Edwards if they want to beat Bush, or come up with someone who didn't even seek the nomination. Kerry is too much of an easy target using these waffle-issue diversions.

If anyone wants to slam Kerry, all they have to do is point to that meeting he had with Tim Russert on Meet the Press. He looked pretty unpresidential on that day, and that sums it up for me.

Again, in 2004 and the race for the White House, the American electorate is faced with a non-choice:

1. George "The neo-Butcher of Baghdad" Bush: is he a man or a chimp, has GW Bush fully evolved? ***or***
2. John "The Waffling Ketchup King" Kerry: can he make up his mind, or does he consult his wife's money before thinking?

People, the two-party system has failed. Kerry, if he should rise to the presidency (I think not), would continue with the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive war, and would downplay his liberalism by stealing GOPper issues and passing them off as Democratic issues.
Bush (and he will win in a landslide) will merely keep plugging away at the problematic policies he's already set and give more freedom to the big corporations before extending more tax cuts to the working poor and middle class. And there's the sinister possibility that the Administration will throw caution to the wind and do whatever the hell they want to do in their second and last term (and we all know Cheney is not running for pres. in 08, Guiliani has the inside track to that).

There is no friggen choice, both candidates suck. Bush worse than Kerry, but I wouldn't be too enthused about who wins.

This election is like Florida State playing Miami, I couldn't give a fock who wins! It's just one bunch of criminals against the other group of crooks! :chair:

Well put, as usual, comrade. I couldn't agree more.

This choice is no choice whatsoever. The gas or the chainsaw. Hmmmm. Guess I'll just watch some more teevee, smoke some more pot and pretend not to care.

It's not really apathy that's killing democracy in America. It's outright disgust.