I saw these guys on MSNBC along with the guy that Kerry pulled out of the water.

The whiners that were not even on the same boat, seem like whiny little wusses that have an agenda and it is to bash Kerry with basically no sense of anything but what they are trying to pass off to the American people.

Here are some things that were pointed out by the guy Kerry pulled out of the water.

1. He said they were recieving sniper fire. That doesnt mean its fire from all sides and all over the place. These guys on the other boats might not of had the same sense of surroundings in THEIR siuation.

2. The U. S. Government along with the U.S. Navy all agree that what happend is what happened so these guys with their 30 year old whine is a little sad.

3. Kerry was awarded his medals based on what other people put him in for. Its not like the Navy or Army or any branch just throws medals around. Especially Bronze & Silver Stars. Oh and the Navy did award these medals based on these events so instead of crying to the american people possibly they should take the argument up with the NAVY!!!!!

4. The accuser also complained about how Kerry came back and helped lead the Veterans against Vietnam and how disgraceful it was. That right there seems like motive to me.

Basically these whiners need to can it and get on with their own lives. Shut up and quit embarassing yourselves. You have another U.S. Senators and war veteran / POW telling you to can it. I mean from the begining this sounded like a bunch of garbage to begin with.

Then when you actually see these men speak out against Kerry their motives shine through. Even bright enough to show through their own bullsh_t.
:eek:

I think you make some good points.

MU ATO Wrote:The whiners that were not even on the same boat, seem like whiny little wusses that have an agenda and it is to bash Kerry with basically no sense of anything but what they are trying to pass off to the American people.

These men served in Vietnam and fought for their country. They have just as much right to say what they believe as Kerry's "Band of Brothers".

You're a disgrace to America to call them names and say they don't have a sense of what's going on. They were 50 yards from him and in the same swift boat company.

Of course SF would think you made good points. After all, we have to attack as baby killers and wussies any vietnam vet that isn't Kerry or isn't supporting Kerry.

You make me sick.

MU ATO Wrote:I saw these guys on MSNBC along with the guy that Kerry pulled out of the water.

The whiners that were not even on the same boat, seem like whiny little wusses that have an agenda and it is to bash Kerry with basically no sense of anything but what they are trying to pass off to the American people.

Here are some things that were pointed out by the guy Kerry pulled out of the water.

1. He said they were recieving sniper fire. That doesnt mean its fire from all sides and all over the place. These guys on the other boats might not of had the same sense of surroundings in THEIR siuation.

2. The U. S. Government along with the U.S. Navy all agree that what happend is what happened so these guys with their 30 year old whine is a little sad.

3. Kerry was awarded his medals based on what other people put him in for. Its not like the Navy or Army or any branch just throws medals around. Especially Bronze & Silver Stars. Oh and the Navy did award these medals based on these events so instead of crying to the american people possibly they should take the argument up with the NAVY!!!!!

4. The accuser also complained about how Kerry came back and helped lead the Veterans against Vietnam and how disgraceful it was. That right there seems like motive to me.

Basically these whiners need to can it and get on with their own lives. Shut up and quit embarassing yourselves. You have another U.S. Senators and war veteran / POW telling you to can it. I mean from the begining this sounded like a bunch of garbage to begin with.

Then when you actually see these men speak out against Kerry their motives shine through. Even bright enough to show through their own bullsh_t.
:eek:

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

They hurt my candidate's feelings

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: '

Tell me, MU, do you denounce Michael Moore's movie?

Because these guys have 3x the credibility of Moore, since you know....they were ACTUALLY THERE.

Anti-Kerry Vietnam Veterans Hold Strong

The following statement from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is in response to an article appearing in the morning edition of the Boston Globe (“Veteran Retracts Criticism of Kerry

all kerry has to do is sign the from to unseal the navy 180 records on him all this stuff will be cleared up. but he wont & it seems to me that kerry has something to hide

safetyeagle Wrote:all kerry has to do is sign the from to unseal the navy 180 records on him all this stuff will be cleared up. but he wont & it seems to me that kerry has something to hide

These guys have every right to say their peace. They were there, and deserve an opportunity to voice their perspective.

But, frankly I hope Kerry stands firm, and doesn't unseal the records.

I don't think this is too relevant to the issues at hand.

Kerry may have got his chance in politics b/c of all this, but he has 20+ years in the field, I'd rather evaluate that.

Jim Ryan got screwed over in Illinois from unsealed records. Bush has been unfairly attacked on 30+ year old events.

I think the high-road is to concentrate on the current issues. I'd rather see the GOP and the talking heads go that route.

DrTorch Wrote:

safetyeagle Wrote:all kerry has to do is sign the from to unseal the navy 180 records on him  all this stuff will be cleared up. but he wont & it seems to me that kerry has something to hide

These guys have every right to say their peace. They were there, and deserve an opportunity to voice their perspective.

But, frankly I hope Kerry stands firm, and doesn't unseal the records.

I don't think this is too relevant to the issues at hand.

Kerry may have got his chance in politics b/c of all this, but he has 20+ years in the field, I'd rather evaluate that.

Jim Ryan got screwed over in Illinois from unsealed records. Bush has been unfairly attacked on 30+ year old events.

I think the high-road is to concentrate on the current issues. I'd rather see the GOP and the talking heads go that route.

i agree, but kerry has made an issue out of his vietnam record, if he has nothing to hide then unseal the records & lets get on with the real issues.

Kerry's war record
Robert Novak (archive)

August 9, 2004 | printer friendly version Print | email to a friend Send

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The television ad that aroused the wrath of John McCain and journalist supporters of John Kerry just begins deconstruction of the Democratic presidential candidate's war record. "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry," a 214-page critique of his performance in Vietnam and the antiwar movement, is off the presses ahead of schedule.

I have read the book and found it is neither the political propaganda nor the urban legend that its detractors claim. It is a passionate but meticulously researched account of how Kerry went to war, what he did in the war and how he conducted himself after the war. The very serious charges by former comrades deserve answers but so far have produced only ad hominem counterattacks.

Why should details of what Kerry did more than 30 years ago be part of this election campaign? Only because the senator has made them integral to his strategy. Kerry as war hero received more attention at the Democratic National Convention than plans for the future. Thus, what he did in his shortened four months of combat becomes a valid campaign issue.

John E. O'Neill, co-author of "Unfit for Command," replaced Kerry as commander of Swift Boat PCF 94 in 1969 and has been confronting him since 1971. O'Neill told me he is no George W. Bush partisan and probably would have supported John Edwards had he been nominated for president, but is committed to keeping Kerry out of the Oval Office. Thus, reversing the usual formulation, the assault on Kerry is personal but not political.

O'Neill told me neither he nor his co-author (Jerome R. Corsi, a writer and expert on the Vietnam antiwar movement) has had contact with the Bush White House or the Bush-Cheney campaign. He said he and Corsi, on their own initiative, went to conservative Regnery Publishing to offer the book.

The co-authors paint Kerry as a reluctant warrior. Contrary to claims by Kerry's supporters that he served two combat hitches in Vietnam, his one-year term aboard a guided missile frigate was far from action. His four months in the brown water navy were terminated eight months early by a third Purple Heart wound, none of which required hospitalization.

The book's strength is the vehemence of testimony by swift boat veterans, alleging that Kerry "gamed" the system to win decorations and later betrayed comrades by charging war crimes. Typical is the quote by Bob Hildreth, commanding an accompanying boat: "I would never want Kerry behind me. I wouldn't want him in front of me, either. And I sure wouldn't want him commanding our kids in Iraq and Afghanistan." Some 200 "Swiftees" on May 4 signed a letter to Kerry demanding full release of his service records.

The book's weakness is support for Kerry's presidential campaign by his swift boat crewmates, presumably people who knew him best. O'Neill told me that these former sailors served with Kerry no more than five weeks. Jim Rassmann, now part of the Kerry presidential campaign, was a Special Forces lieutenant spending a few days with Kerry when he fell or was knocked off the swift boat while under fire and was fished out of the Mekong River by the future candidate.

The "band of brothers" was organized by Kerry, according to this book. It tells of a 2003 telephone call to Adm. Roy Hoffmann, who commanded swift boats in Vietnam, telling him he was running for president. Hoffmann, mistakenly thinking it was former Sen. Bob Kerrey, "responded enthusiastically." Once the admiral realized it was John Kerry, "he declined to give Kerry his support." Hoffmann is quoted as saying, "I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be commander in chief of the armed forces of the United States."

"Unfit for Command" sends a devastating message, unless effectively refuted. Perhaps most disturbing are allegations that Kerry's combat decorations are unjustified. His first Purple Heart, the book alleges, was accidentally self-inflicted. His commander, Grant Hibbard, is quoted as saying: "I didn't recommend him for a Purple Heart. Kerry probably wrote up the paperwork and recommended himself." Full release of documents demanded by his critics could settle this claim quickly if it is unwarranted.

What it boils down to is this:

The only record that Kerry has in the Senate is one that will backlash against him at every turn. He is not worthy of being President because of his voting record, and he himself knows it.

So, he'd rather run on his Vietnam record, a record that is irrelevant to the highest office in the land.

If Kerry wants to run entirely on this stupid war record, then he better not pout when his servicemen call his record into question.

MU ATO Wrote:Then when you actually see these men speak out against Kerry their motives shine through. Even bright enough to show through their own bullsh_t.
:eek:

I would say thats also true for Mr Moore. :D

<a href='http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf' target='_blank'>Why Fahrenheit 9/11 is nothing but a bunch of crap</a>