RandyMc Wrote:

Open Secrets Wrote:I wish some people here would actually go over and find out what it's really like over there. I went, came back, and it changed my entire perspective. The world is different when you aren't blindly ignorant.

If you went, I GUARANTEE that you did not see Isreali soldiers shooting at statues of Mary for target practice nor did you see them bombing or setting a seige on churches.

I am neither blind nor ignorant but I am not stupid either. I know people that go to Isreal every year, including my in-laws. I know people that LIVE in Isreal (and I am not Jewish, either, so do not think that I am biased toward Isreal). These things you posted are not correct and it is imbecilic to try to convince anyone that they are true.

I have met in private with Yassir Arafat. I have extensive ties to people in both Israel and Palestine, including political figures. I have seen pictures and video footage that no one on this board will likely ever see. The reason? The American government would never let it happen.

I know a family whose family member was killed, execution style, for breaking curfew. This is a Christian family, they despise the suicide bombers, and some of them want to come to America to seminary. This is not a terrorist family. Yet, one man leaves his house, and is killed. What kind of message does this send to the Palestinian children who sit and watch their father die for walking down the street?

jjburtzel Wrote:

Open Secrets Wrote:Once again, someone fails to follow a logical flow and decides to assume we are equating drunkenness with terrorism. :rolleyes:

No...you misunderstand. You're trying to tell me that if I say someone is a terrorist because they have taken part in terrorists activities during their lives, then anything anyone has ever done must be treated equally.

Your argument essentially is:

You can't say someone is a terrorist because, for various reasons, they do not take part in it anymore (allegedly), just as you wouldn't call a person who used to abuse alcohol a drunk. It's not the same...you've made a false analogy.

Tell me...would you let a 'former' child molestor baby sit your children? Why would I try to negotiate peace with a 'former' terrorist?

Again, I am not simply equating the two, but I am drawing a parallel between them.

I see it's evident you don't care about forgiveness. That's a shame. It's a principle that most of the people in this world seem to throw in the toilet.

RebelKev Wrote:

jjburtzel Wrote:

Open Secrets Wrote:

Skipuno Wrote:When I heard that terrorist (Arafat) was in the hospital, I thought maybe he would die and leave this world a better place.  :D

Arafat is no terrorist. I have met the man in private and I can tell you that he is no terrorist. Does he have a sketchy history? Yes. But he is not a terrorist.

What? Please elaborate...just because you didn't drive the explosives into the shopping square doesn't mean you're not the terrorist. I'm curious as to the circumstances in which you met him..

EXACTLY!!!!! Hitler, to my knowledge, didn't gas anyone, and he built ROADS!!! Oh, he must be a good guy. :rolleyes:

Reading back on this, this is one of the stupidest things I have ever said.

My apologies to EVERYONE. I don't know what the hell I was thinking. Maybe typing too fast without thinking.

Sorry.

RebelKev Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:

jjburtzel Wrote:

Open Secrets Wrote:

Skipuno Wrote:When I heard that terrorist (Arafat) was in the hospital, I thought maybe he would die and leave this world a better place.  :D

Arafat is no terrorist. I have met the man in private and I can tell you that he is no terrorist. Does he have a sketchy history? Yes. But he is not a terrorist.

What? Please elaborate...just because you didn't drive the explosives into the shopping square doesn't mean you're not the terrorist. I'm curious as to the circumstances in which you met him..

EXACTLY!!!!! Hitler, to my knowledge, didn't gas anyone, and he built ROADS!!! Oh, he must be a good guy. :rolleyes:

Reading back on this, this is one of the stupidest things I have ever said.

My apologies to EVERYONE. I don't know what the hell I was thinking. Maybe typing too fast without thinking.

Sorry.

what's wrong with it? i thought it was completely logical. if you thought that you offended Jews, you would be wrong. i wasn't the least bit offended.

Hitler didn't gas anyone? I know he gassed millions. Which is why I don't know why I said that unless I was thinking of UBL, but typing Hitler. That might have been one of the nights I came back from TGI Friday's in Killeen playing trivia. Trust me, I know Hitler sucks and only wish he could've been captured alive so he could have been executed.

flyingswoosh Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:

jjburtzel Wrote:

Open Secrets Wrote:

Skipuno Wrote:When I heard that terrorist (Arafat) was in the hospital, I thought maybe he would die and leave this world a better place.  :D

Arafat is no terrorist. I have met the man in private and I can tell you that he is no terrorist. Does he have a sketchy history? Yes. But he is not a terrorist.

What? Please elaborate...just because you didn't drive the explosives into the shopping square doesn't mean you're not the terrorist. I'm curious as to the circumstances in which you met him..

EXACTLY!!!!! Hitler, to my knowledge, didn't gas anyone, and he built ROADS!!! Oh, he must be a good guy. :rolleyes:

Reading back on this, this is one of the stupidest things I have ever said.

My apologies to EVERYONE. I don't know what the hell I was thinking. Maybe typing too fast without thinking.

Sorry.

what's wrong with it? i thought it was completely logical. if you thought that you offended Jews, you would be wrong. i wasn't the least bit offended.

You sound to me like an ethnic jew who has rarely and is not planning on practicing the Jewish faith. Are you a practicing Jew?

It's ironic. This is just in my experience, but it seems to me like the majority of practicing Jews in both Israel and the US are not violent zionists. Perhaps I have only experienced certain populations of Jews, but I have seen an interesting trend.

Open Secrets Wrote:You sound to me like an ethnic jew who has rarely and is not planning on practicing the Jewish faith. Are you a practicing Jew?

It's ironic. This is just in my experience, but it seems to me like the majority of practicing Jews in both Israel and the US are not violent zionists. Perhaps I have only experienced certain populations of Jews, but I have seen an interesting trend.

excellent guess captain. i am an ethnic Jew who feels no need to practice any religion. i very much dislike religion, because most of the stuff is made up, and because it's probably way too boring to go to church or temple.

is it just your experience, gulliver?

flyingswoosh Wrote:

Open Secrets Wrote:You sound to me like an ethnic jew who has rarely and is not planning on practicing the Jewish faith. Are you a practicing Jew?

It's ironic. This is just in my experience, but it seems to me like the majority of practicing Jews in both Israel and the US are not violent zionists. Perhaps I have only experienced certain populations of Jews, but I have seen an interesting trend.

excellent guess captain. i am an ethnic Jew who feels no need to practice any religion. i very much dislike religion, because most of the stuff is made up, and because it's probably way too boring to go to church or temple.

is it just your experience, gulliver?

I'm not surprised in the least. What bugs me about those who aren't practicing Jews is that many of them use scripture from the Torah to justify zionism.

Open Secrets Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:

Open Secrets Wrote:You sound to me like an ethnic jew who has rarely and is not planning on practicing the Jewish faith. Are you a practicing Jew?

It's ironic. This is just in my experience, but it seems to me like the majority of practicing Jews in both Israel and the US are not violent zionists. Perhaps I have only experienced certain populations of Jews, but I have seen an interesting trend.

excellent guess captain. i am an ethnic Jew who feels no need to practice any religion. i very much dislike religion, because most of the stuff is made up, and because it's probably way too boring to go to church or temple.

is it just your experience, gulliver?

I'm not surprised in the least. What bugs me about those who aren't practicing Jews is that many of them use scripture from the Torah to justify zionism.

i definitely don't use scripture from the torah. actually, i can't use scripture from the torah, seeing as how i have never even come close to reading it.

I'm not saying you personally. It's a trend that exists in Israel mainly, and to an extent in America.

It's funny, most of the hardcore Israel supporters in America are Christians!

That's come along way from Martin Luther's days.

10 points to whoever can tell me what God explains to Zechariah when he sees the Menorah.

I'll start you off. "Not by force..."

Open Secrets Wrote:10 points to whoever can tell me what God explains to Zechariah when he sees the Menorah.

I'll start you off. "Not by force..."

"Not by force or by might, but with My spirit"

True words to be remembered.

Very similar to Acts 5:38-39

"Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God."

God told Zachariah to tell Zerubbabel that everything was unto the Lord.

But, I fail to see the context in this thread.

Schadenfreude Wrote:Somehow, I don't think you would believe this under any circumstances -- even if Open Secrets gave you a IMAX video tape of it all and sworn depositions from a dozen witnesses.

.....well, since he can't then it is a moot point, isn't it?

RandyMc Wrote:

Open Secrets Wrote:10 points to whoever can tell me what God explains to Zechariah when he sees the Menorah.

I'll start you off. "Not by force..."

"Not by force or by might, but with My spirit"

True words to be remembered.

Very similar to Acts 5:38-39

"Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God."

God told Zachariah to tell Zerubbabel that everything was unto the Lord.

But, I fail to see the context in this thread.

It's obvious that the Israeli government places no value on the words behind the Menorah. Sharon is definitely taking positive steps to further the peace process. But, I am mainly talking about the kind of people who are pressuring Sharon not to remove settlements.

My point is that zionism, to 99% of the practicing Jews I know, is a peaceful ideology. They live by the words of God rather than the might of the Israeli tanks. Whereas many of the ethnic jews, hungry for land, will try anything to get their agenda across, including using the Torah.