The energy policy of this administration has been lacking at best. I am very disappointed with Bush so far in this category. Cold fusion has just worked on a small scale at UCLA. It's time to put big time federal backing behind this.

<a href='http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/05/04/27/1930218.shtml?tid=232&tid=126&tid=14' target='_blank'>http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/05/0...&tid=126&tid=14</a>

A little more information

<a href='http://www.aip.org/pnu/2005/split/729-1.html' target='_blank'>http://www.aip.org/pnu/2005/split/729-1.html</a>

Anyway, yes this administration needs to concern itself w/ affordable energy. It is the zeitgeist of this decade.

I have been extremely disappointed that the direction for NASA did not take this on. Instead of bragging about Mars (a disingenious and failed attempt for emotional support), he should have targeted solar energy collectors on the moon, capable of beaming microwave energy to Earth.

Such plans are not new, and have reasonable support among the scientific community. This is the sort of thing that resonates w/ Americans.

The timing is right for a moon shot effort at alternative energies. Someone posted about cold fusion the other day. Solar collector's in space. Biomass has alot of potential with oil being over 50 dollars a barrel. The geopoltical consequences of our dependence on foreign oil merits such an effort. I propose a 10 cent federal tax increase on each gallon of gasoline sold. All of the proceeds go to the funding of such an effort.

Dogger Wrote:I propose a 10 cent federal tax increase on each gallon of gasoline sold. All of the proceeds go to the funding of such an effort.

Are you serious? Federal and state gov't already taxes the **** out of gas.

Sorry, GTS, but the REAL problem is the price of gas. Necessity is the mother of invention. Gas is still an incredible value. What costs more. A gallon of milk or gas? Bottled water or gas? If American's had to pay more for gas, consumption would be cut by a third. Americans are like 3-4% of the world's population but we use over 25% of it's energies. We are energy hogs!! The right loves to TRUMPET ANWR, but the reality is we could really make a difference with consumption. :wave: :wave: :wave:

Quote:Americans are like 3-4% of the world's population but we use over 25% of it's energies. We are energy hogs!!

I'd bet we also produce a much higher percentage of commerce, technology, medical advances, wealth, jobs, philanthropy, and aid compared to our small percentage of the world's population. No one complains about our being "hogs" when they benefit from our goods and services (and charity).

BTW, I do fully agree about how the energy policy needs reworking and how we need to refocus NASA's priorities.

But I just always chuckle when I hear the "Our population is x% while we consume y%" argument. People always talk of our consumption, but never our output.

Motown Bronco Wrote:

Quote:Americans are like 3-4% of the world's population but we use over 25% of it's energies. We are energy hogs!!

I'd bet we also produce a much higher percentage of commerce, technology, medical advances, wealth, jobs, philanthropy, and aid compared to our small percentage of the world's population. No one complains about our being "hogs" when they benefit from our goods and services (and charity).

BTW, I do fully agree about how the energy policy needs reworking and how we need to refocus NASA's priorities.

But I just always chuckle when I hear the "Our population is x% while we consume y%" argument. People always talk of our consumption, but never our output.

Well, that's a democrat for you.....

I agree with you 100%

Well, that's a democrat for you.....

What do you mean forward thinking?

Think about the possiblities if the automakers had to raise the standards and make cars/trucks that raise the average miles per gallon about 5 - 10 miles. Think about the drop in oil usage this relatively small change would bring about. It would mean less money for the oil industries(which are already making huge profits) and more importantly less money going to the MidEast. You would have thought after what happened in the late 70's and early 80's we would have learned our lesson about gas guzzling low mileage cars/trucks. Another sidenote from what I understand Japan's automakers are about ready to capitalize on our repeated mistake again by having the patent for a hybrid car.

Dogger Wrote:Sorry, GTS, but the REAL problem is the price of gas. Necessity is the mother of invention. Gas is still an incredible value. What costs more. A gallon of milk or gas? Bottled water or gas? If American's had to pay more for gas, consumption would be cut by a third. Americans are like 3-4% of the world's population but we use over 25% of it's energies. We are energy hogs!! The right loves to TRUMPET ANWR, but the reality is we could really make a difference with consumption. :wave: :wave: :wave:

yes we do consume 25% of the world's natural resources. but what you forgot to mention, when you were hastily manipulating the stats, is that we produce 25% of the world's natural resources.

RocketAlum Wrote:Well, that's a democrat for you.....

What do you mean forward thinking?

Think about the possiblities if the automakers had to raise the standards and make cars/trucks that raise the average miles per gallon about 5 - 10 miles.&nbsp; Think about the drop in oil usage this relatively small change would bring about. It would mean less money for the oil industries(which are already making huge profits) and more importantly less money going to the MidEast. You would have thought after what happened in the late 70's and early 80's we would have learned our lesson about gas guzzling low mileage cars/trucks. Another sidenote from what I understand Japan's automakers are about ready to capitalize on our repeated mistake again by having the patent for a hybrid car.

No, I wasn't referring to forward thinking, I was referring to tree hugging at the cost of the economy.

Raising taxes, immediately on gas, would do nothing in the short term, except cause the economy to slow down further (maybe you have seen the effects of just the natural rise in prices.) People will have less disposable income to spend on everything else. That is compounded by a multiplier which is based on the propensity to save. This value, as can be seen by our average credit card debt in this country is very low, which means the multiplier is very high. So let's say for example that the propensity to save is 10%, then every dollar spent on gas tax takes $10 out of the economy. Great idea in the short term. I hope you are picking up my sarcasm.....

Now I will agree that a tax can drive behavior. In the case of smoking, if the tax is raised, overnight you can quit smoking and save paying the tax. With gasoline however, it isn't that simple. People are not going to be able to just go out and buy a more fuel efficient car overnight or make the car they currently have more fuel efficient. So a tax on gas doesn't make any sense, because you can't drive behavior in the short term.

If you want to drive change over time, put a gas guzzler tax on SUVs, give an incentive to buy a hybrid, or penalize the car makers for low fuel efficiency (is being done, but the average to hit is pretty easy.) That would be an effective way to drive behavior without crippling the economy.

So, to answer your question, when I said that's a democrat for you, I meant doing something rash & stupid without thinking about the consequences.

:ownd:

Dogger Wrote:Sorry, GTS, but the REAL problem is the price of gas. Necessity is the mother of invention. Gas is still an incredible value. What costs more. A gallon of milk or gas? Bottled water or gas? If American's had to pay more for gas, consumption would be cut by a third. Americans are like 3-4% of the world's population but we use over 25% of it's energies. We are energy hogs!! The right loves to TRUMPET ANWR, but the reality is we could really make a difference with consumption.

P.S. You will notice Dogger never mentioned something smart like you did when you said force automobile manufacturers to raise MPGs by 5-10. If he had said that, I wouldn't have made the comment I did. :wave:

Dogger Wrote:Americans are like 3-4% of the world's population but we use over 25% of it's energies. We are energy hogs!!

You're comparing the US with third world countries that don't have clean drinking water, forget about cars. If you want to make a fair comparison, find the US population compared with the industrialized world.