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blah Offline
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Post: #61
 
Terry Tate Wrote:
Oddball Wrote:
Oddball Wrote:You get one warning. One more comment like that and you will be singing your song elsewhere.

Translate that.
I just noticed this. Screw your warnings. Ban me.

Typical. :rolleyes:
<span style='font-family:Impact'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>

WOOOOOHOOOO "POOKIE," YOU GONNA GET YOUR WISH!!!!!


NOBODY TALKS LIKE THAT TO A GENUINEY, BONA FIDEY, ADMINISTRATOR TYPE ON MY BOARDS!!!</span></span></span>




[Image: whoop.jpg]
This was probably uncalled for and a little over the top. Although he probably shouldn't have egged the admins on, I hope this banning wasn't driven by differing view points. As much as I disagree with Oddball's viewpoints, the ability to have heated discussions without repercussions are what makes the Spin Room and America great. I hope the admins reconsider or re-evaluate this banning outside the heat of the moment.
11-04-2005 10:39 AM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #62
 
Quote:but I would have to be blind and ignorant to not recognize that there are serious issues regarding this administration.

Every "problem" you see is through the blinders of partisanship. YOu see us invading Iraq as a "problem" , I see it as necessary. You see a crime in the leaking of Plame's name despite the fact it doesn't qualify as one.

You and those on your side hate Bush with a passion not seen since Reagan was in office. When you start from hate and work from there problems are all you'll ever see.

Quote:What frustrates me and elevates( or should I say forces me to digress)my level of emotion -is that everytime ANYTHING remotely negative is said about your guy you come SCREAMING to his defense-and deride those who have a dissenting opinion.

I come with facts to address the constant set of lies that come from the lips of those on here of your political stripe. Legitimate criticism I have no problem with. This doesn't include Bush manufactured Iraq for Halliburton, Bush lied, Bush knew about 9/11 and did nothing etc. These are paranoid delusions of the moveon.org crowd who'd try and pin the assassination of JFK on Bush if they thought it would stick.

Quote:Has he not made one error that he/you will admit to?

Yes. Prescription drug benefit, no veto on spending, Harriet Miers, letting fat Teddy write the education bill thinking that he would not attack him afterwards about it. These are all things I've said were errors on here at some point before. But the looney left on here doesn't want legitimate discussion and disagreement. THey want Bush lied, Bush is a traitor, guns don't kill people Bush does et. al.

When people begin from a position of hate and move forward from there there is no reasoning with them or having legit discussion. Goofball is a perfect example. On numerous occassions in the face of concrete facts he held tight to disproven and paranoid fantasies about this administration. Your side is perpetuating a myth that Joe Wilson is a saint (he's a proven liar), that leaking Plames name was treason (even though Libby wasn't even indicted for it) Saddam never had WMD's (despite that Clinton, Pelosi, Kerry, Rockefellar and more said he did before Bush ever came to the presidency) that Bush knew 9/11 was going to happen but did nothing and the list goes on. These aren't legitimate disagreements they are willful distortions of the truth that stem from a venomous hatred of one man. And you really have the nerve to act shocked that there are those that will defend him?

I welcome legitimate disagreements and debate about the administration and their policies. However seldom if ever is that what we get.
11-04-2005 10:54 AM
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gruehls
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Post: #63
 
Nasty Wrote:oh yea answer the original question...if you can.
wellsir, i think this was the original question:

Nasty Wrote:When was the last time HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF US CITIZENS marched AGAINST a sitting president Righty?


and i'll answer it with a different question: who says there were hundreds of thousands? not your buddy michael moore, from whose website you seem to have selected some pics (as noted by the always brilliant ninerfan1).

wow! a whole 500 in chicago?

<a href='http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=4763' target='_blank'>thousands or hundreds of thousands?</a>
11-04-2005 12:29 PM
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mossmaidi Offline
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Post: #64
 
Am I missing something here. Read the below. It seems you Bush fundamentalists on this board are the only ones that approve of Bush's performance so far lol. It's pretty bad when more than 60% of Americans question his personal integrity!!!!!



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - For the first time in his presidency, a majority of Americans questioned President George W. Bush's personal integrity as his approval ratings on key issues fell to new lows in an ABC News/Washington Post poll published on Thursday.

Fewer than half -- 40 percent -- said Bush was honest and trustworthy. Separately, 67 percent rated his handling of ethics in government negatively and fewer than half called him a strong leader, another first, according to the poll.

Sixty percent of Americans disapproved of his overall job performance, which ABC said was "a level unseen since recession chased his father (George Bush) from office." That compared with a 39 percent approval rating, the poll said.

Even in his own party, just under half of Republicans -- 49 percent -- now strongly approve of Bush's job performance, a 22-point drop from the start of the year when Republicans gave Bush a 71 percent job approval rating, ABC said.

Bush has contended with a number of political setbacks in recent months, including growing concern about the Iraq war and rising casualties, soaring gasoline prices, the slow federal response to Hurricane Katrina, and the indictment of Vice President Dick Cheney's former aide, Lewis Libby, in the CIA leak investigation.

Fifty-two percent of those polled said the CIA leak case indicated broader problems with ethics in the administration. Fifty-nine percent in the ABC News/Washington Post poll said Bush's top political adviser, Karl Rove, who remains under investigation, should resign.

According to the poll, Bush also lost ground in support for his handling of the Iraq war and the economy.

Fifty-five percent said the Bush administration intentionally misled the public in making its case for war, up 12 points from last spring, the poll found.

On Iraq, 60 percent said the war was not worth fighting, up 7 points since August to another high, and 73 percent called the level of U.S. casualties "unacceptable."

Bush scored a 61 percent disapproval rating for his handling of the economy. Sixty-five percent said the economy was in bad shape and 68 percent said the nation was on the "wrong track," the most since 1996, the poll found.

The poll of 1,202 adults was conducted from Sunday to Wednesday and had an error margin of plus or minus 3 percentage points.
11-04-2005 01:50 PM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #65
 
mossmaidi Wrote:Am I missing something here.

Yes.

Quote:It seems you Bush fundamentalists on this board are the only ones that approve of Bush's performance so far lol. It's pretty bad when more than 60% of Americans question his personal integrity!!!!!

I really couldn't care less. A greater % than that didn't want us in WWII, were they right? All the mainstream media feeds day in and day out is Bush lied, Bush lied, Bush lied. That can take a toll. However rest assured, if gas prices were lower his approval rating would be higher.

When you research, study and have facts on your side you dont' need polls or moveon.org to tell you what to think.

In the end it doesn't matter if 60% question it, he's still the president and not JOhn Kerry. That eases my mind.
11-04-2005 02:19 PM
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mossmaidi Offline
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Post: #66
 
You should tell that to half of the Republicans that disapprove of Bush as well. What a joke of an administration?!?! He will be remembered most for how he dwindled the reputation of the US both domestically and internationally. Don't you know that people laugh at us inside and outside this country!?! It really is humiliating. But then again you wouldn't know since you haven't ever traveled outside your own state of Texas, Alabama, or whatever uneducated red state you are from.....
11-04-2005 02:24 PM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #67
 
Quote:Don't you know that people laugh at us inside and outside this country!?!

Yeah, it keeps me awake at night. :rolleyes:

Quote:But then again you wouldn't know since you haven't ever traveled outside your own state of Texas, Alabama, or whatever uneducated red state you are from.....

Wow, been a bigot long? And here the myth was only republicans could be ignorant and bigoted.

FYI junior I've been to Austria, Kiev, London and Switzerland. I have a college degree, am getting my masters and work for a Fortune Top 10 company. While I know that doesn't rank up there with your job as a fry cook or the welfare check you collect each month I'm pretty proud of it.
11-04-2005 02:29 PM
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blah Offline
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Post: #68
 
mossmaidi Wrote:You should tell that to half of the Republicans that disapprove of Bush as well. What a joke of an administration?!?! He will be remembered most for how he dwindled the reputation of the US both domestically and internationally. Don't you know that people laugh at us inside and outside this country!?! It really is humiliating. But then again you wouldn't know since you haven't ever traveled outside your own state of Texas, Alabama, or whatever uneducated red state you are from.....
Ha Ha Ha....

I'm sure you get to interact with a lot of people, daily, when you ask them if they want fries with their order.

I work for an internationally based company and have been to over 30 different countries on 5 continents.

Over the last 10 years on all my travels there has only been one thing that I have seen foreigners laughing at us as a country for. No, it wasn't Bush or his administration, although he may not be liked internationally, it was Clinton and his "girlfriend" Monica. They thought it was extremely funny that a preseident of the most powerful country on earth couldn't keep it in his pants.

Feel free to retort with your own real world experiences outside of the blue states of NY and CT.
11-04-2005 02:47 PM
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mossmaidi Offline
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Post: #69
 
I totally disagree that people outside the US laugh at us more about Clinton & Monica issue vs Bush. Hands down it is Bush that they talk about most. When I was in Brussels, Germany, and Amsterdam last December, the first thing they brought up was the election and who I voted for. They ask where I am from and I tell them Ohio and they would laugh saying you must have voted for Bush. They knew more about the elections than some people about the States. You must be in denial about how badly the US is thought of outside this country. If you've seriously been outside this country in the 2 last 2 years, you'd know that being a US citizen is a liability and you would have never felt that during the Clinton years.

Also, haven't you seen the thousands of protesters in Argentina alone protesting Bush's visit. Is it pure coincidence that everywhere Bush travels outside the US that he is protested? He is the most disliked President in US history. I think if you ask Kerry he'd be relieved that he didn't win the election, because the mess that Bush created cannot be cleaned by anyone....
11-04-2005 03:37 PM
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Post: #70
 
Quote:When I was in Brussels, Germany, and Amsterdam last December, the first thing they brought up was the election and who I voted for.

Well I know it would bug me terribly if people in a country that has a 12.5% unemployment rate and another that has legalized drugs and prostitution didn't approve of who I voted for.

Quote:You must be in denial about how badly the US is thought of outside this country. If you've seriously been outside this country in the 2 last 2 years, you'd know that being a US citizen is a liability and you would have never felt that during the Clinton years.

Exactly, cause Europeans are all about a chief exec that gets hummers in the oval and cheats on his wife. I'm surprised they didn't give him a medal for it.

Being a US citizen is a liability? Yeah, that why so many want to be one and are coming here in droves, many illegally. How many refugees do you read about crossing the ocean to realize their dream of freedom in Germany or France? :rolleyes:

And also bare in mind, no one is keeping you here.

Quote:Also, haven't you seen the thousands of protesters in Argentina alone protesting Bush's visit.

Why should we give a crap? They don't vote, they don't pay taxes and they don't contribute to the economy of this country by in large unless they're exporters. You want to bet me your pay check none of them would stop trading with us?

Quote:Is it pure coincidence that everywhere Bush travels outside the US that he is protested?

News flash fella every US president is protested when he travels outside the country, even Clinton. It's only those of your political stripe that really give a damn.

Quote:He is the most disliked President in US history.

Nah, Reagan was pretty well hated to. It's amazing how keeping the world safe for democracy does that to a president over seas.

Quote:I think if you ask Kerry he'd be relieved that he didn't win the election, because the mess that Bush created cannot be cleaned by anyone....

Yeah, I'm sure that's what he'd say.

:roflol: :roflol: :laugh:
11-04-2005 03:53 PM
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mossmaidi Offline
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Post: #71
 
Quote:Nah, Reagan was pretty well hated to. It's amazing how keeping the world safe for democracy does that to a president over seas.

Keeping the world safe for democracy, now that is really laughable :roflol:
11-04-2005 04:09 PM
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blah Offline
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Post: #72
 
mossmaidi Wrote:
Quote:Nah, Reagan was pretty well hated to. It's amazing how keeping the world safe for democracy does that to a president over seas.

Keeping the world safe for democracy, now that is really laughable :roflol:
I didn't see you list your occupation. Does that mean we were right on the McDonald's guess? Or are you in the Peace Corp?
11-04-2005 04:17 PM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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Post: #73
 
mossmaidi Wrote:When I was in Brussels, Germany, and Amsterdam last December, the first thing they brought up was the election and who I voted for. They ask where I am from and I tell them Ohio and they would laugh saying you must have voted for Bush.
Wow, that's tacky.

I consider myself (traditionally) conservative, but I'm not a fan of the Bush Administration. However, that would've gotten under my skin if I were in your shoes.

I wouldn't even remotely consider asking a European visitor about who they vote for, quiz them on their unemployment rate or laugh about their riots, let alone bringing up as the "first thing" I ask.

Again, that's just gauche.

Quote:If you've seriously been outside this country in the 2 last 2 years, you'd know that being a US citizen is a liability and you would have never felt that during the Clinton years.

But why wouldn't I be treated as an individual over there, instead of being judged by who's sitting in the White House?

mossmaidi, your comments are actually representing a damning picture for Europeans, not us. If I'm chastised as I step off the plane over there, just based on my nationality, then they have more problems than we do.

(FWIW, I was overseas last year, and haven't felt any judgemental wrath from them. Although, this was Eastern Europe, and not Western Europe)
11-04-2005 04:19 PM
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gruehls
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Post: #74
 
mossmaidi Wrote:
Quote:Nah, Reagan was pretty well hated to. It's amazing how keeping the world safe for democracy does that to a president over seas.

Keeping the world safe for democracy, now that is really laughable :roflol:

no doubt the citizens of iraq, lebanon, egypt, every country formerly situated behind the iron curtain, et al, share your skepticism as to the role the US plays and has played in keeping the world safe for democracy.

interesting that you find the concept funny though.
11-04-2005 04:24 PM
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Post: #75
 
gruehls Wrote:
mossmaidi Wrote:
Quote:Nah, Reagan was pretty well hated to. It's amazing how keeping the world safe for democracy does that to a president over seas.

Keeping the world safe for democracy, now that is really laughable :roflol:

no doubt the citizens of iraq, lebanon, egypt, every country formerly situated behind the iron curtain, et al, share your skepticism as to the role the US plays and has played in keeping the world safe for democracy.

interesting that you find the concept funny though.
The former Soviet Union's ineptitude and corruption had more to do with its fall than anyting that Reagan did.
11-04-2005 05:26 PM
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blah Offline
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Post: #76
 
mossmaidi Wrote:Also, haven't you seen the thousands of protesters in Argentina alone protesting Bush's visit. Is it pure coincidence that everywhere Bush travels outside the US that he is protested? He is the most disliked President in US history. I think if you ask Kerry he'd be relieved that he didn't win the election, because the mess that Bush created cannot be cleaned by anyone....


Quote:MAR DEL PLATA, Argentina - An anti-American rally turned violent Friday as more than 1,000 rioters clashed with police, setting bonfires in the streets and destroying storefronts across about six square blocks less than a mile from the inauguration of the fourth Summit of the Americas.

This matches up with the information you listed. Anti-American crowd, hating Bush and America as a whole.

Quote:The violence in Argentina came after a massive, peaceful march by about 10,000 demonstrators who listened to Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez urge them to fight U.S. policies, including a proposal to create a hemisphere-wide free trade agreement.

The rest of the story.... So who is this Hugo Chavez? Let's see below....

Quote:In 1992, there was an attempt by rebellious entities within the Venezuelan military, led by Lieutenant Colonel Hugo Chávez, to remove two-time democratically elected president, Carlos Andrés Pérez, from power. The coup ultimately failed, and Chávez and his supporters were jailed for treason. Pérez, meanwhile, was eventually impeached and convicted for corruption. The coup also brought about the death of 80 civilians and 17 members of the armed forces. Chávez's role in resisting a president generally perceived as corrupt by the lower classes made him a prominent, admired figure among them. Chávez was eventually released from jail in 1994 by Perez's elected successor, Rafael Caldera.

Chávez was elected president in 1998 with 56% of the vote as part of a new political party, the Movement for the Fifth Republic. His platform, (Bolivarian revolution), called for the signing of a new constitution written by a Constituent Assembly and approved by referendum in 1999. Chávez was re-elected in 2000 under the new constitution with 59% of the vote. In November 2000, the National Assembly granted Chávez the right to rule by decree for one year, and in November 2001, Chávez made a set of 49 decrees, including large reforms in oil and agrarian policy. Those decrees made him even more popular with the poor.

Much to the displeasure of the United States government, Chávez openly admits to attempting to establish socialism in Venezuela and flaunts close ties with Cuban President Fidel Castro. The most recent examples of his self-proclaimed socialist program include expropriation of plantations that owner-occupants claim are private property. Although political parties supporting Chávez have consistently won a majority of seats in parliament, Chávez has only slowly been able to gain control of most branches of the government. The government has often had to create new grassroots public services in the form of "missions" to avoid going through the corrupt bureaucracy.

So, a communist dictator is leading an anti-American rally. Yeah, I'd say we should definitely be concerned about that. 03-nutkick

<a href='http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9904968/' target='_blank'>Linky</a>

<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela' target='_blank'>Linky 2</a>
11-04-2005 05:55 PM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #77
 
uhmump95 Wrote:The former Soviet Union's ineptitude and corruption had more to do with its fall than anyting that Reagan did.
No it really didn't.

Corruption in a wholly government run country has no effect on it because it's the status quo. When the government controls all aspects of law and order corruption doesn't hurt it. I know that things like that are a favorite talking point of the left because of they hated Reagan with a passion that was second only to Bush.

Reagan was not soley responsible, but he was the catalyst that brought them down. History is very clear on Reagan's role in bringing down the Soviet Union, and it wasn't small by any stretch of the imagination.
11-04-2005 08:39 PM
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mossmaidi Offline
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Post: #78
 
Carter: Americans were misled on war
Former president says Bush policy 'radical departure'

Friday, November 4, 2005; Posted: 7:54 p.m. EST (00:54 GMT)

Manage Alerts | What Is This? ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Former President Jimmy Carter said Friday that there isn't "any doubt" the American people were misled about the war in Iraq and that President George Bush's policy on the war is a "radical departure from the policies of any president."

In an interview with CNN, Carter addressed some of the comments made in his new book, "Our Endangered Values: America's Moral Crisis." In the book he says the Bush administration was determined to attack Iraq using "false and distorted claims after 9/11."

Carter said the Bush administration spoke of mushroom clouds, weapons of mass destruction and the threat of thousands of Americans dying to garner support for the war. No weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq.

He was careful to say he didn't know whether intelligence was misinterpreted or purposely twisted, and Carter praised the attempts by his fellow Democrats in Congress to press efforts to look into the matter. (Watch how the Senate went into secret session over the intelligence used to back the war -- 3:05)

"If the investigation would go ahead and proceed, as Democrats have been trying to in the Senate now for more than 18 months, then we will know the circumstances under which the American people -- and I think an entire world -- was misled about what was going on in Iraq," he said.

Carter added that he had seen no evidence the White House was involved in the CIA leak investigation that ensnared Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, last week.

Libby is accused of lying to investigators and a grand jury probing the disclosure of the identity of a CIA officer whose husband had challenged administration claims that then-Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had been trying to restart his nuclear weapons program.

Carter also said that the administration's pre-emptive strike doctrine directed against the possible future use of weapons of mass destruction is a spurious basis for a war when there is no immediate threat to America's security.

"We'll bomb, strafe and send missiles against their people even though our security's not directly threatened," he said. "This is contrary to international law. It's also contrary to what every president has done in this country for more than 100 years, Democrat or Republican."

As the former president spoke from the Carter Center in Atlanta, Georgia, protests in Mar del Plata, Argentina -- where Bush is attempting to promote free trade among the 34 nations comprising the Summit of the Americas -- had turned violent. (Full story)

Shown live footage of the protests, Carter said the United States' reputation in the world is as low as it's been in his lifetime and that the United States has lost its prestige, authority and influence in Latin America. He added, however, that the chief opponent to the Free Trade Area of the Americas, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, is a "demagogue." (Read about Congressional passage of the Central American Free Trade Act)

Before the protests turned violent, Chavez denounced capitalism to thousands of demonstrators from his perch in front of a six-story banner of communist revolutionary Che Guevara. Protesters, including Argentine soccer legend Diego Maradona, listened as Chavez claimed he would "bury" the Free Trade Area of the Americas proposal. Maradona wore a shirt accusing Bush of war crimes, while protesters called the U.S. president a "terrorist" and a "fascist." (Watch the protests -- 1:25)

Carter defended Bush and dismissed as rhetoric the words of the Venezuelan president.

"The personal attacks on the president and the condemnations of America by Hugo Chavez from Venezuela, I think, are completely unjustified and uncalled for," Carter said. "Chavez is a difficult person with whom to deal personally. I know from my own experience."

Carter was voted out of office in 1980 -- 25 years ago on Friday -- after Iranian militants took Americans captive in the U.S. Embassy in Tehran. The hostages were freed after 444 days as Carter left office.
11-04-2005 08:42 PM
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Post: #79
 
Jimmy Carter. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :laugh: :roflol:
11-04-2005 09:16 PM
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Post: #80
 
Ninerfan1 Wrote:Jimmy Carter. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :laugh: :roflol:
:lolup: :lolup: :lolup:
11-04-2005 09:21 PM
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