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The Making of Michael Oher - from NY Times Magazine
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TigersOhMy Offline
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Post: #21
 
the main reason it looks so bad on freeze is that it was well known at briarcrest he wanted to break into the college level of coaching...and what do you know, as soon as a major prospect comes along, hes off to ole miss
09-24-2006 10:15 PM
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TigersOhMy Offline
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Post: #22
 
tigertommy Wrote:
ChattTiger Wrote:
tigertommy Wrote:So how are my Saints to blame? lol
There is a reason our guys go to prep school and it is not just to tour the country. Live with your head in the sand if you want to but it is so they can become eligible same as Oher and Powe tried to.

Oher should have had to go to prep school or Juco to become NCAA eligible. Powe tried to go to prep school, but even then couldn't become eligible. Whereas ours and multitudes of other basketball and football players go to prep school and become eligible. Like it or not, that is the current route players with poor grades or backgrounds take to become eligible to play in the NCAA (other than "passing" correspondence courses.)

Shawne Williams is a good example. He hardly bothered with school his first 2 years at Hamilton. It was realized well into his junior year that he didn't have a chance there. But TA wouldn't let him go, so he waited until his senior year to go to Laurinburg. But he still didn't make it, so he stayed the extra year to become eligible. That is a big difference than passing a year or two worth of credits in a matter of weeks by taking a correspondence course.

Tha main one that looks bad in all of this in my mind is Freeze, not the BC administration. Freeze saw Oher for what he was to him--his meal ticket. And he punched it in for a job with Orgeron.

Freeze is an idiot. He definitely deserves to look bad as much as possible.

i tell you what though, the football team at briarcrest sure could use him back this year lmfao
09-24-2006 10:16 PM
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marktheapostle Offline
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Post: #23
 
tigertommy Wrote:So how are my Saints to blame? lol
There is a reason our guys go to prep school and it is not just to tour the country. Live with your head in the sand if you want to but it is so they can become eligible same as Oher and Powe tried to.

Whatever, man. Sometimes idiotic statements can come from even the smartest minds. And that is a fairly idiotic statement you made.. Laurinberg has been around a very long time and is not a diploma mill.
I thought you were a Tiger fan? I also thought you could be somewhat informed. Sounds like you are neither.
09-24-2006 10:18 PM
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tigertommy Offline
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Post: #24
 
marktheapostle Wrote:
tigertommy Wrote:So how are my Saints to blame? lol
There is a reason our guys go to prep school and it is not just to tour the country. Live with your head in the sand if you want to but it is so they can become eligible same as Oher and Powe tried to.

Whatever, man. Sometimes idiotic statements can come from even the smartest minds. And that is a fairly idiotic statement you made.. Laurinberg has been around a very long time and is not a diploma mill.
I thought you were a Tiger fan? I also thought you could be somewhat informed. Sounds like you are neither.

Come on. These places are not for Thomas Edisons. They are for basketball players needing to get their grades up. Maybe not as bogus as BYU's online prgram but bogus anyway.
09-24-2006 10:22 PM
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RandyMc Offline
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Post: #25
 
IdahoTiger Wrote:The NCAA has threatened to crack down on some of this academic corner-cutting before, and hasn't delivered.

And they will not as long as the memory of the College Football Association (CFA) is still in everyone's head. Revive that if the NCAA gets too cute and away we go........................
09-24-2006 10:30 PM
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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Post: #26
 
Pressed Rat Wrote:B.Y.U. should be kicked out of the NCAA and its accreditation burnt. BYU is a disgrace. This brings into question any degree they've ever issued.

Dr. Raines would crawl on her belly over a mile of broken glass to have the academic prowess of BYU.
09-25-2006 12:02 AM
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steves Offline
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Post: #27
 
Easterwood Wrote:There are alot of Oher's out there, I knew him long before the people
at Briarcrest got involved, if you took Ole Miss out of the equation you
would most likely view this differently. They helped to give him a future
and a bright one at that.
I agree ... and I despise Ole Miss. Give this kid a bit of credit ... and make him responsible for keeping up his end of the bargain ... and that's good all around. I am astonished the NCAA hasn't blown this up by now. We'll see if he makes it to years 2,3 and the NFL. I just feel the Ole Miss folks (you know the ones) will toss him now that the WORLD knows the story. Stay tuned !!! :shhh:
09-25-2006 07:54 AM
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msu65 Offline
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Post: #28
 
I have a real problem with people saying that we will overlook fabricated grades because it will give a kid a better life. The College system was never meant to rehabilitate or give opportunities to kids who can't pass high school. University sports were meant for students. Even though College Football is big business there are still minimum requirements and plenty of deserving players available to fill available scholarships. Yes, there are people out there who can play sports and go to school. Are they the best players? Some are, some are not. But, you can't discount the fact that they did not have 6 hours a day to spend on the basketball court, because they had to study everynight. I played four sports in high school and I can tell you, from experience, I would have been even better if I could practice all night and not study. The University system is not a charity. I do not have a problem with accepting underpriviledged kids, who made less than stellar grades in ahead of someone who did better in school. Especially when those kids had less guidance and no support system. But I draw the line at fabrication. If a kid needs special assistance, because he has no support system, then that is the area to focus on. Then if his character is strong enough, he will take the opportunity and make the best of it. I worked as the Basketball strength coach, for one year as a graduate assistant. It was under Dana Kirk but I won't single anyone out. There were some young players who had no work ethic and zero character on that team. I would try to get them to lift weights. Their excuse was that they did not want to be fat when they were older. Yes, some people still believed muscle turned to fat in 1981. When we ran in conditioning they would loaf and do just enough to get by. They were extremely talented, but they would not attend a class if it killed them. I would have to go check their, "Marriage and the Family" and "Driver's Education" classes. (I'm not kidding) to make sure they at least showed up. Generally they did not. If you look at where these promising players ended up, you can see where their careers eventually went. Character rises to the top eventually. On the opposite end, our football team was 50-50 black and white. I could not name one player, off that team that did not work hard and attend class. We did not have a single academic problem, and when it came time to lift weights and run, everyone participated to their fullest abilities. Although the program started deteriorating at the end of our tenure, I was proud to be associated with everyone of those people. So don't misconstrue this as a racial topic. It is not.
I have changed my position on this over the years. I believed it did not matter if a college athlete graduated. At least he would have the opportunity to say he attended Memphis State in a job interview even if he only had a minimal education. Maybe he would learn something while he was there. But I have seen the waste that still occurs because an opportuntiy is given to someone who does not deserve it and I stopped supporting that ideal years ago.
I spent three years, with two other's, trying to help a young man, in middle school, who was very underpriviledged. He lived with his Grandmother and had not had any parental supervision for years. He lived in one of the worst neighborhoods you will ever see. 4 and 5 year olds roam the streets at 2:00 in the morning, while everyone knows if you wanted drugs, you could just drive down this street. Police stopped venturing in because nails were strategically placed in the street to flatten car tires on any vehicle that did not belong. This was one of the best athletes I have ever seen. I believe he would have been a different story if he had supervision at home. But he did not and eventually ended up out of school. Yes, our local school could have kept him enrolled and he would have ended up being a can't miss major college athelete. But it would not have been right.
09-25-2006 09:48 AM
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Tigerx3 Offline
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Post: #29
BYU
UM2001GRAD Wrote:
Pressed Rat Wrote:B.Y.U. should be kicked out of the NCAA and its accreditation burnt. BYU is a disgrace. This brings into question any degree they've ever issued.

Dr. Raines would crawl on her belly over a mile of broken glass to have the academic prowess of BYU.

Just because BYU has a good rep doesn't mean that they should be allowed to get away with this. Correspondance courses have always been a sore spot when accredidation teams visit but for the most part people look the other way.

I have worked in both higher ed and secondary settings and I can tell you that fraud is rampant with this practice. There is almost no way to verify who does the work. I had a kid visit me last week who came in waiving a correspondance high school diploma under my nose. He could not add, he could not read, and never put an ounce of effort in school prior to his removal from our program. Now he has a piece of paper in his hand that "validates" his academic achievement. He is not an athlete so there is no one out there to front him. He will hit a brick wall with any test or any class he takes in any level of college.

If I were King, the only way I would accept correpondance courses would be if video feeds were used during testing to confirm students were doing their own work. Many universities (including the U of Memphis) use two-way video in distance learnig classes along with a graduate student or other paid monitor. There is no credibility otherwise.
09-25-2006 10:31 AM
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BinghamptonNed Offline
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Post: #30
 
[quote]Sean sent the test to Utah by Federal Express, and the B.Y.U. people promised to have the grade ready by 2 o
09-25-2006 11:02 AM
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bmglennreb Offline
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Post: #31
 
Just a small point, but a guy for LSU, Keiland Williams, that also went the Hargrave route was let in using the BYU correspondence course route. Personally, the whole BYU thing sounds like a loophole that needs to be closed, but until it is, they should treat every athlete that uses them the same. They shouldn't pick and choose whose correspondence courses to accept and whose to reject. I also don't blame coaches for using it. If the NCAA is allowing the courses to count, and it allows you to get an athlete into school, coaches will do it.

Basically, my point is they need to close the loophole and shut down the BYU correspondence practice. They just need to make sure they reject all of the courses for all athletes at all schools and not accept some athletes and reject others. In other words, if you're going to let academics be a farce in college football, let it be a farce for everyone and call it a day. If you're going to get real about it, get real for everyone, and make no exceptions for the big money schools.
09-25-2006 11:38 AM
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griffin Offline
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Post: #32
 
The classes at BYU were set up for their students who travel worldwide for a period of time - and the audience they are wanting to reach - I don't think this was ever meant to be for other studetns to take advantage of.
09-25-2006 11:40 AM
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ChattTiger Offline
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Post: #33
 
bmglennreb Wrote:Just a small point, but a guy for LSU, Keiland Williams, that also went the Hargrave route was let in using the BYU correspondence course route. Personally, the whole BYU thing sounds like a loophole that needs to be closed, but until it is, they should treat every athlete that uses them the same. They shouldn't pick and choose whose correspondence courses to accept and whose to reject. I also don't blame coaches for using it. If the NCAA is allowing the courses to count, and it allows you to get an athlete into school, coaches will do it.

The NCAA's problem with Powe's course didn't have to do with his taking them, but with the fact that his work on them could not be verified. His own tutor accused him of cheating on them. Yes, the loophole does need to be closed. But just because other students used them to get in doesn't mean that they should have looked the other way in Powe's case.
09-25-2006 12:18 PM
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TG4 Offline
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Post: #34
 
msu65 Wrote:I worked as the Basketball strength coach, for one year as a graduate assistant. It was under Dana Kirk but I won't single anyone out. There were some young players who had no work ethic and zero character on that team. I would try to get them to lift weights. Their excuse was that they did not want to be fat when they were older. Yes, some people still believed muscle turned to fat in 1981. When we ran in conditioning they would loaf and do just enough to get by. They were extremely talented, but they would not attend a class if it killed them. I would have to go check their, "Marriage and the Family" and "Driver's Education" classes. (I'm not kidding) to make sure they at least showed up. Generally they did not.

You had my full support in this post until you made it a personal issue and coming from an old teammate makes it even worse. I'll have you know that I attended almost every class session for "Doc" Henderson and got a "B" in Marriage and the Family. I also got an "A" in Crime and Deviant Behavior. Opted for Badminton and Archery instead of Driver's Ed since I already knew how to drive.
09-25-2006 02:38 PM
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memphodude Offline
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Post: #35
 
I think it's a fantastic story.

Yes I believe Freeze probably saw some success for himself with oher.
But in the end who is it really going to benefit.
We're not talking about some kid who's parents used their child to make a better life for themselves.
This is a kid who was forced through by no choice of his own, and not because he was so talented.
Someone else stated he could've turned to crime, but just didn't.

I've never been a fan of Tuohy mostly because of his mouth.
But I give him alot of credit for this and especially his wife.

This kid had no shot at any kind of life and would've spent most of it at 201 Poplar had things continued.
This wasn't about HS/College football, it was about people seeing someone as a person and meeting a need he could never do for himself.

Did they play the system to get him into college? Absolutely.
That's the way the NCAA wants it. If not they'd change it.
They're not ignorant of it.
And kudos for making it work for this kid.

The difference between him and Powe is Powe had a parent.
She knew what was going on and let it!
It's her job to fight for her child.

The real villian in all this is not Tuohy, Freeze, or BYU.
The criminal in ALL of this is...the MEMPHIS PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.

The NYT should do a book on how many lives have been derailed, destroyed, and railroaded into a life of misery and tragedy because of the Memphis public school system.
It should be shut down for all the good it does.
09-25-2006 04:18 PM
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ChattTiger Offline
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Post: #36
 
Quote:The real villian in all this is not Tuohy, Freeze, or BYU.
The criminal in ALL of this is...the MEMPHIS PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.

The NYT should do a book on how many lives have been derailed, destroyed, and railroaded into a life of misery and tragedy because of the Memphis public school system.
It should be shut down for all the good it does.

Run for a school board seat and try to fix the problems. This isn't isolated to MCS, even within this county (gasp!).

And I'm not sure he would have wound up at 201 Poplar--by all accounts, he stayed away from that lifestyle, or he would have never had the chance he has now.
09-25-2006 05:55 PM
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Cletus Offline
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Post: #37
 
memphodude Wrote:I think it's a fantastic story.

Yes I believe Freeze probably saw some success for himself with oher.
But in the end who is it really going to benefit.
We're not talking about some kid who's parents used their child to make a better life for themselves.
This is a kid who was forced through by no choice of his own, and not because he was so talented.
Someone else stated he could've turned to crime, but just didn't.

I've never been a fan of Tuohy mostly because of his mouth.
But I give him alot of credit for this and especially his wife.

This kid had no shot at any kind of life and would've spent most of it at 201 Poplar had things continued.
This wasn't about HS/College football, it was about people seeing someone as a person and meeting a need he could never do for himself.

Did they play the system to get him into college? Absolutely.
That's the way the NCAA wants it. If not they'd change it.
They're not ignorant of it.
And kudos for making it work for this kid.

The difference between him and Powe is Powe had a parent.
She knew what was going on and let it!
It's her job to fight for her child.

The real villian in all this is not Tuohy, Freeze, or BYU.
The criminal in ALL of this is...the MEMPHIS PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.


The NYT should do a book on how many lives have been derailed, destroyed, and railroaded into a life of misery and tragedy because of the Memphis public school system.
It should be shut down for all the good it does.


In my opinion this attitude is the part of the basis for the existing problems with the Memphis City Schools and our "Great" Country in general.

Nobody raises our kids but us. If you expect the City School System to raise your kids then you get what you deserve.

When you have 2 wage earners in a Family then there's less time for parents to spend time with their children's academics and discipline.

Too often in today's Society parents expect the Teacher to not only to teach their children the ABCs but also instill discipline in their lives.

But the School Systems have outlawed Corporal Punishment.

I know when I was in school I didn't want to get any licks.

Will that solve all the problems; no. Because just like Academics; discipline must start at home.

But the description of what the American Family "is" has drastically changed since the 1960/70's.

School's shouldn't be raising our children. We should. If you don't want to or can't raise children then don't have them. Show some personal discipline and responsibility.

More single Parent homes, more illegitimate births, more crime, less discipline.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

Despite my suprise & anger over the BYU classes; God Bless the Tuohy's.

They should be lauded for the Love and selfless generosity.

Quote:Proverbs 22:9

He that seeks to relieve the wants and miseries of others shall be blessed. (Pr 22:10)


.
09-25-2006 07:53 PM
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TG4 Offline
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Post: #38
 
Cletus Wrote:
memphodude Wrote:I think it's a fantastic story.

Yes I believe Freeze probably saw some success for himself with oher.
But in the end who is it really going to benefit.
We're not talking about some kid who's parents used their child to make a better life for themselves.
This is a kid who was forced through by no choice of his own, and not because he was so talented.
Someone else stated he could've turned to crime, but just didn't.

I've never been a fan of Tuohy mostly because of his mouth.
But I give him alot of credit for this and especially his wife.

This kid had no shot at any kind of life and would've spent most of it at 201 Poplar had things continued.
This wasn't about HS/College football, it was about people seeing someone as a person and meeting a need he could never do for himself.

Did they play the system to get him into college? Absolutely.
That's the way the NCAA wants it. If not they'd change it.
They're not ignorant of it.
And kudos for making it work for this kid.

The difference between him and Powe is Powe had a parent.
She knew what was going on and let it!
It's her job to fight for her child.

The real villian in all this is not Tuohy, Freeze, or BYU.
The criminal in ALL of this is...the MEMPHIS PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.


The NYT should do a book on how many lives have been derailed, destroyed, and railroaded into a life of misery and tragedy because of the Memphis public school system.
It should be shut down for all the good it does.


In my opinion this attitude is the part of the basis for the existing problems with the Memphis City Schools and our "Great" Country in general.

Nobody raises our kids but us. If you expect the City School System to raise your kids then you get what you deserve.

When you have 2 wage earners in a Family then there's less time for parents to spend time with their children's academics and discipline.

Too often in today's Society parents expect the Teacher to not only to teach their children the ABCs but also instill discipline in their lives.

But the School Systems have outlawed Corporal Punishment.

I know when I was in school I didn't want to get any licks.

Will that solve all the problems; no. Because just like Academics; discipline must start at home.

But the description of what the American Family "is" has drastically changed since the 1960/70's.

School's shouldn't be raising our children. We should. If you don't want to or can't raise children then don't have them. Show some personal discipline and responsibility.

More single Parent homes, more illegitimate births, more crime, less discipline.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

Despite my suprise & anger over the BYU classes; God Bless the Tuohy's.

They should be lauded for the Love and selfless generosity.

Quote:Proverbs 22:9

He that seeks to relieve the wants and miseries of others shall be blessed. (Pr 22:10)

Cletus,

You have been known to post some real doozies but this one is by far your best effort. Well said.
09-25-2006 08:10 PM
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btiger Offline
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Post: #39
 
Cletus Wrote:
memphodude Wrote:I think it's a fantastic story.

Yes I believe Freeze probably saw some success for himself with oher.
But in the end who is it really going to benefit.
We're not talking about some kid who's parents used their child to make a better life for themselves.
This is a kid who was forced through by no choice of his own, and not because he was so talented.
Someone else stated he could've turned to crime, but just didn't.

I've never been a fan of Tuohy mostly because of his mouth.
But I give him alot of credit for this and especially his wife.

This kid had no shot at any kind of life and would've spent most of it at 201 Poplar had things continued.
This wasn't about HS/College football, it was about people seeing someone as a person and meeting a need he could never do for himself.

Did they play the system to get him into college? Absolutely.
That's the way the NCAA wants it. If not they'd change it.
They're not ignorant of it.
And kudos for making it work for this kid.

The difference between him and Powe is Powe had a parent.
She knew what was going on and let it!
It's her job to fight for her child.

The real villian in all this is not Tuohy, Freeze, or BYU.
The criminal in ALL of this is...the MEMPHIS PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.


The NYT should do a book on how many lives have been derailed, destroyed, and railroaded into a life of misery and tragedy because of the Memphis public school system.
It should be shut down for all the good it does.


In my opinion this attitude is the part of the basis for the existing problems with the Memphis City Schools and our "Great" Country in general.

Nobody raises our kids but us. If you expect the City School System to raise your kids then you get what you deserve.

When you have 2 wage earners in a Family then there's less time for parents to spend time with their children's academics and discipline.

Too often in today's Society parents expect the Teacher to not only to teach their children the ABCs but also instill discipline in their lives.

But the School Systems have outlawed Corporal Punishment.

I know when I was in school I didn't want to get any licks.

Will that solve all the problems; no. Because just like Academics; discipline must start at home.

But the description of what the American Family "is" has drastically changed since the 1960/70's.

School's shouldn't be raising our children. We should. If you don't want to or can't raise children then don't have them. Show some personal discipline and responsibility.

More single Parent homes, more illegitimate births, more crime, less discipline.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

Despite my suprise & anger over the BYU classes; God Bless the Tuohy's.

They should be lauded for the Love and selfless generosity.

Quote:Proverbs 22:9

He that seeks to relieve the wants and miseries of others shall be blessed. (Pr 22:10)


.

Cletus, That makes a great fantasy. You're right things have changed since the 60's and there is as much chance of "things" going back to the way they were as there is of Santa coming down your chimney this December.
09-25-2006 08:15 PM
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Pressed Rat Offline
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Post: #40
 
Despite my suprise & anger over the BYU classes; God Bless the Tuohy's.

They should be lauded for the Love and selfless generosity.


I might agree with you if this guy played the trombone, but left defensive end with NFL potential to play at his Alma Mata. Maybe I'm too cynical, but that is too big of a stretch for me.
09-25-2006 08:20 PM
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