Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
"Lucy Cup" update
Author Message
Lucy
Unregistered

 
Post: #1
 
On the Duke: one sport school revisited thread, I did a re-ranking of Sears Cup points based on the sports in which every ACC school participates. Nate dubbed this version the "Lucy Cup".

With the addition of Miami & Virginia Tech, I was curious to see how both schools compared with their new ACC brethren. Here are the results. Please note that the point values have decreased because I had to remove points for Men's Golf, as Miami does not offer this sport (any bets on how quickly they will begin to field one, considering that 8 ACC schools, including VT, ended the season with national rankings? :)):

There are 11 Sears Cup sports in which EVERY ACC school competes:

Men's Cross Country
Women's Cross Country
Football
Women's Volleyball
Men's Track & Field
Women's Track & Field
Men's Basketball
Women's Basketball
Men's Tennis
Women's Tennis
Baseball

Using the points given to each school for these sports on the Sears Cup final standings, here are the new ACC rankings:

UNC - 422.5
Miami - 388.5
Duke - 364
NCSU - 291.5
FSU - 261.5
GT - 212
Clemson - 199.5
Wake - 190.5
Virginia - 174
Maryland - 115
VT - 111.5

Notes: 1) Virginia Tech & Miami both bring excellent women's basketball programs to the table. VT's is ranked equally with NC and Virginia and Miami's at the same ranking as GT's.
2) VT gives the ACC a 6th wrestling program and they rank right in the middle of the current programs.
3) We are all aware that both schools are known for their football programs. In Sears Cup points for football from this year, Miami would be first, NCSU 2nd, MD 3rd, VT 4th, FSU 5th, and VA 6th in points on a national scale.
06-30-2003 08:09 PM
Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


nate jonesacc
Unregistered

 
Post: #2
 
Hey! Maryland isn't last anymore! Athletic powerhouse! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
06-30-2003 10:05 PM
Quote this message in a reply
Terpy
Unregistered

 
Post: #3
 
nate jonesacc Wrote:Hey! Maryland isn't last anymore! Athletic powerhouse! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
:rolleyes:

Lucy's system is flawed because sports like Men's and Women's lacrosse that Maryland (and Virginia) excell at arent counted toward the rankings. In order to maintain national prominence in Lacrosse you would have to devote less resources to say...Women's vollleyball. In effect in Lucy's standings Maryland is penalized for maintaining a great lacrosse program. Likewise if say...Florida State decided to offer and devote serious resources to lacrosse it is possible that their fine Track and Field program would suffer as a result. My point is Maryland shouldnt be penalized for offering (and excelling) in a sport that not all conference teams participate in.

This is not meant to be a rip on Lucy or her system, I havent read the Duke one sport school revisited thread...Im sure her system serves her purpose. Im just pointing out to thick-headed Nate that these rankings dont mean that Maryland is a two-sport wonder or whatever he is inferring.

Anyways Im not certain, but Im pretty sure that Maryland's overall ranking in the Sears Cup is pretty respectable and probably higher than Dukes. It just happens that they are not as successful in the sports that all ACC teams participate
07-01-2003 12:41 AM
Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Lucy
Unregistered

 
Post: #4
 
The only way that a system can be fair is to compare apples & apples. Not every school has lacrosse, or field hockey, or gymnastics. Therefore in this scenario I used only the sports in which every ACC school participates.

Yes, Maryland and Virginia's huge points in lacrosse are left out, but so are the points for Wake's national championship in field hockey, and Clemson's national championship in men's golf. I was trying to bring a modicum of equality into the rankings. I was not trying to make any particular school look bad.

If you would like to see the spreadsheet and see the points breakdown for every sport offered, I would be happy to email it to you. No matter how hard you try to manipulate the numbers, Duke will still be ahead of Maryland in total points. For that matter, so will Wake.
07-01-2003 07:16 AM
Quote this message in a reply
JD Heel
Unregistered

 
Post: #5
 
I can see both sides to this discussion. I agree with Lucy that you need to compare apples to apples... but I also agree with Terpy that (under these rankings) a school can be penalized for maintaining a great program in a sport in which not all ACC schools compete.

For example, there are sports that a majority of ACC schools play -- such as men's and women's soccer -- and I would contend that those sports matter to most of the ACC. So, I don't think you could give an accurate comparison of the schools if you ignored those sports entirely.

I agree that the Sear's Cup system is flawed, but I think that does it about the best way you can do it. It caps the number of sports so that the schools that play the most sports don't automatically score higher every year (in the ACC, that would be UNC).

Perhaps one way that would be fairer would be to take a total of the points that the Sear's Cup would award for a sport and then divide that by the number of sports that a school plays. That would, in effect, give an "average" score. Maybe somebody can do the math on that one. 03-wink

-JD
07-01-2003 12:44 PM
Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


roxborobluedevil Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 161
Joined: Jun 2003
Reputation: 3
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #6
 
Don't forget that Duke's dominance in Women's Golf is left out too.
07-01-2003 12:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Lucy
Unregistered

 
Post: #7
 
JD Heel Wrote:Perhaps one way that would be fairer would be to take a total of the points that the Sear's Cup would award for a sport and then divide that by the number of sports that a school plays.  That would, in effect, give an "average" score.  Maybe somebody can do the math on that one.  03-wink
That makes sense. I have the total Sears Cup points awarded to each school by sport in my spreadsheet at home. I'll see what I can crunch later tonight.

For each school use total points awarded for 2003 divided by # of sports that school plays -- will that satisfy the masses?

(Thanks for the suggestion, JD!)
07-01-2003 01:58 PM
Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


JD Heel
Unregistered

 
Post: #8
 
That sounds good. You might want to make sure that the Sears' Cup lists point totals for sports that aren't included in a school's Sears' Cup total. I know that for UNC, the final Sears' Cup total doesn't include all of the individual point totals because we scored in more than 10 women's sports (but I don't know if they list points for those sports that were left off the total).

Also, you might want to make sure you use the # of sports per school that the Sears' Cup uses. I've seen all over the place that UNC fields 28 sports, but I don't know that the Sears' Cup scores in all 28 of those. And -- for the life of me -- I can't figure out what those 28 are, because TarHeelBlue.com only lists 26 sports.

I hope that makes sense. It sounds like too much work for me -- hence, why I didn't do any of the calculations. 03-wink

-JD
07-01-2003 03:18 PM
Quote this message in a reply
Lucy
Unregistered

 
Post: #9
 
When doing the original calculations, I went through each of the Sears Cup standings spreadsheets (including the preliminary fall & spring ones) for 2003 and listed the points each ACC school earned in the sports used for the Sears Cup. Then I went to each school's official athletic site & listed the sports in which the school fields a varsity team (club teams do not count for Sears Cup points).

Thus my spreadsheet lists every Sears Cup sport, the points each ACC school earned in the 2002-2003 school year, and is color-coded to show the sports in which each school has a varsity team, and which sports ALL ACC schools field varsity teams. IIRC NC State also fields men's & women's varsity rifle teams and UVA fields an equestrian team. These sports are not included in the Sears Cup. There are also sports that are included in the Sears Cup in which no ACC team fields varsity teams, such as skiing and ice hockey (several schools have club ice hockey, but again, these teams do not count towards points).
07-01-2003 04:05 PM
Quote this message in a reply
Upper Deck Chevy
Unregistered

 
Post: #10
 
An idea I had was: rather than not include the points for sports in which some schools don't compete, how about weighting it?

For example, Wake won the title for field hockey, but only 5 ACC schools compete in that sport, so give Wake 100*(5/9)=56 points. Should be fun to crunch :)
07-01-2003 06:20 PM
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.