DMS Wrote:funny thing is Sam said he would battle (rap against) me when he was here.....I simply laughed at him. Sam is a horrible rapper. lmfao

Perhaps you could challenge him to a "W-2 off" and see who makes more money - Sam playing football or you rapping. He may simply laugh at you. He may even claim you are "a horrible income earner"...

Kedzman Wrote:

DMS Wrote:funny thing is Sam said he would battle (rap against) me when he was here.....I simply laughed at him. Sam is a horrible rapper. lmfao

Perhaps you could challenge him to a "W-2 off" and see who makes more money - Sam playing football or you rapping. He may simply laugh at you. He may even claim you are "a horrible income earner"...

Kedzman.. what does how much money he makes have to do with how good a rapper he is? Ron Artest and Shaq both are multi-millionaires I'd still much rather listen to what DMS is rapping then them. He didn't say he runs a better 40 or has better hands.

Kedz has a mixed up set of values. WWJD? Not judge someone by their worth, that's for sure. Sounds like Kedz has been riding around in Alum's Denali.

You all have missed the context of my post. I am reluctant to even try to explain, but here goes...


DMS making fun of Sam Hurd by claiming his rap skills are inferior is like me claiming that Garrett Wolfe's comic book collection "is horrible" compared to mine. I don't have a comic book collection, so pardon the analogy. But one's ability to rap or collect comic books is a cheap way to try and level the playing field with an accomplished professional athlete. I just think it is silly. That is why I suggested they compare paychecks. Now do you get it?


For some of you socialists & liberals out there, you seem to have a problem with making money. Since when is making money a "mixed up set of values". And why do we think Jesus has anything bad to say about being productive and earning wealth. The root of all evil is not money. It is the LOVE (compulsion, greed, envy, excessive desire etc.) of money that is the root of all evil. Let's get it straight, boys.

Kedzman Wrote:You all have missed the context of my post. I am reluctant to even try to explain, but here goes...


DMS making fun of Sam Hurd by claiming his rap skills are inferior is like me claiming that Garrett Wolfe's comic book collection "is horrible" compared to mine. I don't have a comic book collection, so pardon the analogy. But one's ability to rap or collect comic books is a cheap way to try and level the playing field with an accomplished professional athlete. I just think it is silly. That is why I suggested they compare paychecks. Now do you get it?


For some of you socialists & liberals out there, you seem to have a problem with making money. Since when is making money a "mixed up set of values". And why do we think Jesus has anything bad to say about being productive and earning wealth. The root of all evil is not money. It is the LOVE (compulsion, greed, envy, excessive desire etc.) of money that is the root of all evil. Let's get it straight, boys.

I don't really think DMS was making fun of him, I think he was just saying that he can't rap and it's probably pretty funny listening to him try to rap. It's not like he said Sam sucks and he can't do anything right.

Kedzman Wrote:You all have missed the context of my post. I am reluctant to even try to explain, but here goes...


DMS making fun of Sam Hurd by claiming his rap skills are inferior is like me claiming that Garrett Wolfe's comic book collection "is horrible" compared to mine. I don't have a comic book collection, so pardon the analogy. But one's ability to rap or collect comic books is a cheap way to try and level the playing field with an accomplished professional athlete. I just think it is silly. That is why I suggested they compare paychecks. Now do you get it?


For some of you socialists & liberals out there, you seem to have a problem with making money. Since when is making money a "mixed up set of values". And why do we think Jesus has anything bad to say about being productive and earning wealth. The root of all evil is not money. It is the LOVE (compulsion, greed, envy, excessive desire etc.) of money that is the root of all evil. Let's get it straight, boys.

You miss the point. It's poor form to even talk about what someone makes or doesn't make. Especially on a damn message board. Who cares?

Kedzman Wrote:You all have missed the context of my post. I am reluctant to even try to explain, but here goes...


DMS making fun of Sam Hurd by claiming his rap skills are inferior is like me claiming that Garrett Wolfe's comic book collection "is horrible" compared to mine. I don't have a comic book collection, so pardon the analogy. But one's ability to rap or collect comic books is a cheap way to try and level the playing field with an accomplished professional athlete. I just think it is silly. That is why I suggested they compare paychecks. Now do you get it?


For some of you socialists & liberals out there, you seem to have a problem with making money. Since when is making money a "mixed up set of values". And why do we think Jesus has anything bad to say about being productive and earning wealth. The root of all evil is not money. It is the LOVE (compulsion, greed, envy, excessive desire etc.) of money that is the root of all evil. Let's get it straight, boys.

Nobody can make fun of anybody that makes more money then them.

Got it.

It is becoming more apparent that the board is being overrun with socialists and communists. In their view, there is no disagreement about issues or opinions. We choose to slander the people who observe that the original post was setting up a "straw man" in a logical argument.

Incredible what mental lightweights post here and don't understand the logical response of Kedz. The football player Sam Hurd was "one-upped" by the famous rapper DMS. The observation was made that if you are a professional football player, you must therefore be a good rapper. Doesn't follow.

Kedz responds that we should compare W-2s between DMS and Sam Hurd to highlight the absurdity. That is his way of saying in a logical argument, it doesn't follow. The communists and aethists on the board fall for it hook, line, and sinker and begin the personal attack on Kedz. You all need to take a logic course and re-read this thread. You are a joke. - reminds me of what I just observed at the WalMart where my son works. Absolutely stupid people.

"Nobody can make fun of anybody that makes more money then them."
Yep - yet another example of the collosal mental divide to be bridged.

People are not educated enough and people like me and my son who choose to seek education and truth (i.e. God's rules need to be observed) will always dominate people who seek to put others down. You can't point out fallacies in their logical arguments, you need to attach them by minimizing the earlier logical error as a joke or "make fun of".

If you are going to go after Kedz for being a God-fearing Christian, don't exclude me. I am proud to be a God-fearing Christian and I hope then that you treat me with the same disdain. If you can't support your positions in a logical manner, attack the poster. Beautiful.

NIUJDK Wrote:It is becoming more apparent that the board is being overrun with socialists and communists. In their view, there is no disagreement about issues or opinions. We choose to slander the people who observe that the original post was setting up a "straw man" in a logical argument.

Incredible what mental lightweights post here and don't understand the logical response of Kedz. The football player Sam Hurd was "one-upped" by the famous rapper DMS. The observation was made that if you are a professional football player, you must therefore be a good rapper. Doesn't follow.

Kedz responds that we should compare W-2s between DMS and Sam Hurd to highlight the absurdity. That is his way of saying in a logical argument, it doesn't follow. The communists and aethists on the board fall for it hook, line, and sinker and begin the personal attack on Kedz. You all need to take a logic course and re-read this thread. You are a joke.

Or you could summarize and just say that Kedz made a joke and everyone overreacted. I'm not sure why you have to bring communists, socialists and athiests into the mix, because . . .

Quote:- reminds me of what I just observed at the WalMart where my son works. Absolutely stupid people.

. . . last time I checked Walmart was overrun by right wing Christians. Stupidity does not discriminate by religion or political affiliation.

Since you bring it up, and because Kedz always does this, and now that we have an OT board, I'd like to ask this question to both you and Kedz: Why throw out blanket statements where you try to pull religion and political affiliation into a conversation that seemingly has nothing to do with it? I'll give you a pass on the last part of your post because people often go to the "Kedz you're a Christian" comments too often (then again, perhaps he brings that upon himself), but what do athiests, communists and socialists have to do with people overreacting to a joke? What does Political affiliation and religion have to do with most of the random stuff it get's pulled into on this board? With Kedz, I always figure he's baiting the conversation because those are the two subjects he wants to talk about, but there has to be more than that. Not trying to start any political/religious arguments. I'm honestly just wondering why it comes back to that.

Dyno -

I wish I had time to reply to this, but I am up early trying to get packed for a business trip and need to get on the road. I will say this, however... People who have deeply held religious/spiritual beliefs have a worldview that stems from those beliefs. My Christian worldview is fundamentally conservative. That Christian conservatism bleeds into many issues, including politics, economics, family values and culture.

On the flip side, those who have an absense of religious/spiritual beliefs often times have a worldview that stems from those lack of beliefs. They are much more liberal or ambivalent about issues I listed.

There are a lot of shots, cracks, comments that find their way into peoples posts here, even though it is a sports board. When someone takes a side and anchors it with a religious, political, economic, values or cultural position, I like to weigh in. The most recent example of that is how taxes found their way into the thread yesterday re: Garrett Wolfe's new contract package. Taxes are gonna take a huge bite. I believe our progressive tax system (instead of flat or fair taxes) are unfair. This is an example of hard work and success being punished by a tax system run amuck.

Kedzman Wrote:For some of you socialists & liberals out there, you seem to have a problem with making money. Since when is making money a "mixed up set of values". And why do we think Jesus has anything bad to say about being productive and earning wealth.

...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24

:owned:

niuhuskie84 Wrote:

Kedzman Wrote:For some of you socialists & liberals out there, you seem to have a problem with making money. Since when is making money a "mixed up set of values". And why do we think Jesus has anything bad to say about being productive and earning wealth.

...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24

:owned:

Do you think Jesus was referring to the attitude of a man's heart or the contents of his wallet?

How about the parable of the talents?

The Parable of the Talents
14"Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. 15To one he gave five talents[a] of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. 17So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. 18But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.

19"After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.'

21"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

22"The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.'

23"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

24"Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'

26"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

28" 'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

Kedzman Wrote:

niuhuskie84 Wrote:

Kedzman Wrote:For some of you socialists & liberals out there, you seem to have a problem with making money. Since when is making money a "mixed up set of values". And why do we think Jesus has anything bad to say about being productive and earning wealth.

...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24

:owned:

Do you think Jesus was referring to the attitude of a man's heart or the contents of his wallet?

How about the parable of the talents?

The Parable of the Talents
14"Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. 15To one he gave five talents[a] of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. 17So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. 18But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.

19"After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.'

21"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

22"The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.'

23"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

24"Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'

26"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

28" 'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

Did I mention - that I love the new set up of this board...Preach on fellas!!!

Kedzman Wrote:Do you think Jesus was referring to the attitude of a man's heart or the contents of his wallet?

wallet. taken in context, the quote was referring to a rich man (as in monetarily) who asked jesus what he had to do to get into heaven. jesus' response was to tell him to sell all of his possessions, give his money away to the poor, and then come follow him. the man was unwilling to do this because of his great wealth.

niuhuskie84 Wrote:

Kedzman Wrote:Do you think Jesus was referring to the attitude of a man's heart or the contents of his wallet?

wallet. taken in context, the quote was referring to a rich man (as in monetarily) who asked jesus what he had to do to get into heaven. jesus' response was to tell him to sell all of his possessions, give his money away to the poor, and then come follow him. the man was unwilling to do this because of his great wealth.

Wrong answer. Attitude. He did not sell his possessions because it was too great a sacrifice for him personally. He held the value of his wealth above the value of a relationship with the God that created him.

You assumption is illogical. Are you suggesting that there is a monitary line in the sand and no one above a certain net worth is eligible for heaven? That makes no sense. There are a lot of fantastically wealthy people who are quite generous and good stewards of their wealth. They understand that all of their talent and ability comes from God because God created them. They also understand that everything in this world is created by God, and therefore, we must be good stewards of those resources. When wealth is stewarded properly, it is a blessing and God is pleased. When wealth is hoarded and God is not honored, it is a barrier between man and God.


Money is not the root of all evil. It is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil.

Kedzman Wrote:Wrong answer. Attitude. He did not sell his possessions because it was too great a sacrifice for him personally. He held the value of his wealth above the value of a relationship with the God that created him.

Actually, that's what I thought 84 was saying.

I'll have more from my original question at a later time.

Quote: That makes no sense.

to be fair, theres a lot in the bible that dosent make sense.

Quote:There are a lot of fantastically wealthy people who are quite generous and good stewards of their wealth.

this is true. however, you could also look at the story of the woman who gave away just a few cents, which is all she had. and she was held in a much higher regard than the man who gave away a small fortune, but it was just a fraction of his wealth.

im not saying theres an imaginary line in the sand. and you make a valid point, which very well could have been what the passage was getting at. but those who are entrusted with wealth have a much greater weight places on their shoulders. "the last will be first, and the first will be last." im not religious, but its a good debate.

niuhuskie84 Wrote:

Quote: That makes no sense.

to be fair, theres a lot in the bible that dosent make sense.

Quote:There are a lot of fantastically wealthy people who are quite generous and good stewards of their wealth.

this is true. however, you could also look at the story of the woman who gave away just a few cents, which is all she had. and she was held in a much higher regard than the man who gave away a small fortune, but it was just a fraction of his wealth.

Hey, we all know what you are getting at on this, but why you would hold a rich man in lesser regard than a poor person, just because the richer man gave away a lesser percentage of his wealth?

This is the same crap you hear from people who decry that the US is a poor giver of foreign aid, when based on percentage of GDP. Expressed as a percentage of GDP, Norway's contributions were highest at 0.87% or approximately $4.2 billion, while the USA was only .16% or approximately $19 billion. However if you were on the receiving end of aid, who would you rather have filling your coffers? The Netherlands or the USA?

I give around $500 + bucks to NIU every year, as that is about all I can afford after mortgage, kid, investments, car payments, food, gas, clothes, dog food, 10 bags of mulch from ACE and my coke habit (Coca Cola, damnit!)

Surely you don't hold me in higher regard than the recent large donors to NIU - if you do I eagerly await NIU's decision to strip the Barsema name from campus, and rename every thing Lord Stanley Hall, because I guarantee my donation is a larger percentage of my earnings than the Barsema donations..

(OK probably not a larger percentage, but the point remains. I really just wanted to write Lord Stanley Hall)

sure, in practice, the more money you give the greater impact it has. however, if youre talking about this from a religious/theological standpoint, and looking at extreme personal sacrifice rather than giving away an amount that is comortable (even if that amount is very high), i think the prior is probably held in a higher regard.

the key word is to live "humbly". and i think that is exponetially more difficult for a wealthy person than a poor one. not saying its impossible, but by the very nature of being rich, definitely more difficult. and when compared to the rest of the world, your average middle class american is most certainitly rich.