MileHighBronco
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There is one other factor in play here. As mandated by EPA air pollution standards, places like Denver or L.A. require the use of specially blended fuels in order to try and meet the clean air requirements. The high altitude here, and basin geography similar to L.A. makes these areas prone to temperature inversions, which traps the "brown cloud" near the ground and creates the need to special fuels.
There are many "boutique" fuels that are required in the marketplace. It is not a one type fits all and the lack of refining capacity limits suppy.
Oh, one more thing. While the green crowd is crowing about the great E-85 ethanol fuels, some prominent scientists are saying that, believe it or not, ethanol will actually increase certain pollutants. Can't find the link right now. Ethanol may be a step in the right direction, but it is not the silver bullet it is being touted as.
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04-27-2007 05:12 PM |
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DesertBronco
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It'll never be the silver bullet, but it definately would help our supply problems if we had the choice. Brazil has done it, and those 'scientists' wouldn't be the same types that are saying that the planet is warming up, are they?
The cars can run on both quite easily, I have a flex fuel vehicle that will go back and forth and I do so quite often. We need alternatives, not just to be stuck on one.
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04-27-2007 05:31 PM |
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Whinny1
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Well heck, if they can develop a vehicle that runs on shedded cat hair, I'll be in business!!
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04-27-2007 05:58 PM |
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BroncoPhilly
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The long term solution is to move away from carbon based fuels and towards electric fuel cells and fusion generation. Short term we need to stretch our usage by cutting down on electricity, watching where we drive and using hybrid technology in vehicles. In a word, conservation.
The high price of gasoline (and natural gas, electricity) will naturally encourage conservation. I'm sure driving less than I used to. And working my ass off to design and build GM hybrid vehicles that'll bridge us over until fuel cells/full electric become economically viable. I'd say we're a decade away from that technology. Maybe 15 years.
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04-28-2007 01:46 AM |
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DesertBronco
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I didn't realize it was that far out.
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04-28-2007 10:20 AM |
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Chipdip1
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So you dont think the EPA has the power to stop the energy companies? Tell me, when was the last time you saw a nuclear power plant built. Not in some of your lifetimes.
The EPA alone is not that powerful. But when you combine it with a willing media, the NIMBY factor, the loony toon "sky is falling crowd", blend them all together, and you get a powerful force that turns most politicians into spineless wimps, affraid to make tough choices, because the uninformed morons back home, might actually believe the tripe being spewed by the enviro crowd, and might not vote for them in the next election.
Anwar drilling is a no brainer. THERE IS NOTHING THERE other than some single celled omebas frozen stiff in the tundra. But the enviros paint a picture as though oil rigs will harm baby seals, buluga whales, and fuzzy polar bears. The EPA may not be full of great scientists, but they can spin a yarn like nobodies business.
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04-28-2007 11:21 AM |
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ESSSS
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Quote:Well heck, if they can develop a vehicle that runs on shedded cat hair, I'll be in business!!
LOL!!!
You need a "furminator"!!! Have you seen them?
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04-28-2007 11:30 AM |
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DesertBronco
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Yep, the EPA alone is that powerful, they don't have anyone else but that willing media and a few wingnuts supporting them, it's just them against the world, big money, the conservative party, OIL COMPANIES, and they're winning. : lmfao
Keep going, it's getting good.
Quote:Anwar drilling is a no brainer. THERE IS NOTHING THERE other than some single celled omebas frozen stiff in the tundra. But the enviros paint a picture as though oil rigs will harm baby seals, buluga whales, and fuzzy polar bears. The EPA may not be full of great scientists, but they can spin a yarn like nobodies business.
What is the impact on our supply with that oil from there? Especially since that bad old EPA won't let the oil companies refine enough oil as it stands today? I mean, this whole thing is a refinery issue, not a supply issue of oil, so why drill there?
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04-28-2007 12:43 PM |
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MileHighBronco
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DesertBronco Wrote:I mean, this whole thing is a refinery issue, not a supply issue of oil, so why drill there?
While what you say is true, the switch to other non-petroleum technologies will not happen overnight. Allowing drilling in ANWAR will temporarily help bridge the gap and somewhat lessen our dependence on Middle East oil sources. That's all.
I'm all for conservation, developing new technologies, etc. In the meantime, why can't we drill some of the oil that is available to us in our backyard? Thanks to Cuba, China is drilling for oil only 50 miles off of Florida.
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04-28-2007 01:27 PM |
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Whinny1
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OK ESSSS........I bit. I searched on Furminator. The brush/comb looks like a clever idea, but I don't think my cats will give up their Zoom Groom for it.
And the Furminator Deshedding solution and Shampoo? To use on cats? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Surely those folks jest! You couldn't PAY me to attempt that.
Which has nothing to do with the price of gas, actually. Heh.
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04-28-2007 03:51 PM |
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DesertBronco
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What's the estimated impact of the oil from there?
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04-28-2007 04:57 PM |
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MileHighBronco
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Don't have figures but have heard it is definitely not huge. But every little bit helps in the short term, don't you think?
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04-28-2007 05:16 PM |
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Chipdip1
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Quote:What is the impact on our supply with that oil from there?
Not sure, but outside of drilling for more oil on our own land, we have few options other than to keep complaining every summer when there's a brownout, and keep bitching because gas prices are too high, and keep complaining about our dependence on foriegn oil. In 15 or 20 years we'll have a hybred that doesnt cost 40k, and that has been around long enough to work out the bugs. In the mean time keep the status quo and *****.
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04-28-2007 05:33 PM |
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DesertBronco
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You guys have no clue, that will have hardly any impact on the issue. Drilling more oil is a band aid solution at best, and as you appropriately pointed out, the issue is deeper than just getting our hands on oil in the ground, (blame the epa if you feel better, that's not the case)
Our future can't depend upon it, and we had better figure out a way to make things go without fossil fuels sooner rather than later.
The answer is that Anwar will mean nothing.
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04-28-2007 09:01 PM |
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Chipdip1
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The difference is our own oil has an imediate impact. Technelogical solutions while on the horizon, are not imediate. We are one temper tantrum (by Chavez, or the Saudis) from $6 a gallon gas. We have the technology to get oil out of the ground and off shore that in the past we could not get. But of course the eco-nuts would rather we suffer at the pump, than risk disturbing a couple of mating sea turtles with an offshore drilling rig.
Or how bout this for a creative "carbon offset." Since Sadam decided to torch 500 wells and put a decades worth of carbon dioxide in the air, how bout we just take the damn oil fields and call it even. We'll use the profits from the oil to plant millions of trees just the way Al Gore's carbon offset company supposedly is doing (but isnt).
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04-28-2007 09:37 PM |
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BroncoPhilly
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Quote:I didn't realize it was that far out.
Cost is the issue with fuel cells, DB. We can make them right now, in high volume. But they cost about 4 times the price of a comparable internal combustion engine powered vehicle. We need to reduce the cost and make them more practical.
We'll do it, but it will take a few years to get the prices down. Just hard work and perspiration will resolve the cost issues. You will start seeing fuel cells become a significant part of our energy picture before you and I depart this earth. Well, maybe you anyway.
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04-28-2007 10:34 PM |
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DesertBronco
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Quote:The difference is our own oil has an imediate impact.
The amount of oil Anwar is going to yield will have an immediate impact? You sure?
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04-29-2007 12:22 AM |
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Chipdip1
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Immediate in that you pump it, refine it, use it.
The same cant be said for hybreds that cost 40-50k. Sure you save a little on gas, but you could have just bought a 30k vehicle and you'd 20k left over for fuel. Until the technology is in mass production, and the cost goes down, a hybred is not a viable alternative for the average Joe/Joan
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04-29-2007 12:26 AM |
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DesertBronco
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Not talking about hybrids, other forms of fuel, you were discussing Anwar. It won't be immediate, it won't be here until 2010, and most is slated for export due to logistical challenges the last I heard. I benefits the oil company that wins the drilling contract, nobody else.
Besides, like you said, they can't refine it anyway, our whole problem is a refinery issue, right?
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04-29-2007 12:28 AM |
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michmaster
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If they started drilling today the oil from Alaska would have an impact in 2012 when the oil is finally ready to be pumped and transported through pipes to a refinery or a new refinery is built. That oil probably wont be a major influence on the prices of oil because quite frankly the oil companys are happy making more than double what they did in 2000 in net profits. The Alasking drilling is just a conservatve political ploy to try to bring down enviornmentalists which dip specializes in. Notice the shots at the frozen tundra and sea turtles.
Supply and demand doesnt work with oil because it is a need now not a want. People have to pay wat they charge so they charge up the rear end for it. And of course the government wont do anything because the oil industry and oil executives gives a ton of money to the conservatives. When is the last time you got a 200m dollar pention for retiring after working 2 years? It happens all the time in the oil industry. The supply of the oil is not the problem increasing supply wont decrease cost.
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04-29-2007 07:58 AM |
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