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Very interesting article on EMU in the Detnews
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #1
Very interesting article on EMU in the Detnews
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../702190375

I read a lot of posts on boards and get frusrated by the "God, Country and EMU..." (alums from other schools can substitute their school for EMU).

Lot of rah, rah stuff which masks that EMU is in a deep slump (but might pull out of it before this decade is over).

I remember being very optimistic about EMU in the 90s where almost everything went right including many new buildings and success with athletics, etc. ('95 EMU FB was fun and '91 and '96 hoops were for the history books).

I remember having a conversation maybe last November with a distinguished emeritus faculty. I have his hand written note at my computer. It indicated that CMU is "growing in enrollment and stature" (actual quote) while things not looking too good for EMU.

CMU has been growing very nicely (as indicated by the graph) and GVSU has literally exploded in growth while EMU has lost enrollment 4 years running and WMU has had even bigger declines.

I really believe GVSU has gained notice because of their FB team. It always happens - a school breaks out in sports and applications for admission rise big time.

CMU might be poised to grow more the rest of this decade.

P.S. I wonder if GVSU is gaining at WMU expense????
02-19-2007 04:59 AM
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emu steve Offline
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I might add about graduation rates
Folks on these boards wonder why there isn't more spirit, alumni contributions, etc. etc. at EMU?

One of the damning statistics from that article is the low percentage (in both absolute percentages and relative to EMU's peer schools) of students graduating within 6 years.

I'd love to see a rank order correlation between this kind of academic measure and alumni contributions.

My guess (and it seems intuitively obvious to me) that schools where kids go and live on campus, graduate in four years, and watch successful athletics will more closely align themselves with their school.

Schools where kids just go to get a piece of paper (diploma) don't do well in terms of alumni spirit and contributions.

I see it more as a 'systemic' issue ("EMU is what it is"). EMU is not full of kids from out of state, like UofM or MSU, who CAN'T go home for the weekends. They stay around, party, and attend athletics.
02-19-2007 05:28 AM
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huroncowboy Offline
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Post: #3
 
I can't speak for how things are now, but when I was in business school many who attended already had full time jobs and were working on taking classes to get a degree part time and yes they commuted back and forth to school, home and work. That may explain part of the graduation lag. Also depending on the major it takes more years ie my daughter graduated from CMU in teaching and it was a five year program. Sit out a term to earn money etc and again you might a lag there. I'm not sure this explains the whole picture but it may explain some of it.

I think the article fails to mention besides the president house problem the fact that many alum for better or worse are still split on the Huron vs Eagle thing. We lost a "unique" brand when we lost the Huron title.

The problems as I read them are administrative decisions and regent inaction (sleeping at the wheel) and that the AD department for a time was a disaster. Graggs, Genyk and Rams as well as the other programs are suffering from the train wrecks left by others. To their credit they are trying to do something positive and keep the programs alive and running with a chance for success.

EMU doesn't act in a vacuum. Pell grant funding I believe was slashed and student loan interest rates went up although Congress is looking into making student loans more affordable. However that doesn't explain why enrollment has dropped at EMU and grown at other places. It used to be that when I went to EMU tutution was the cheapest at any of the major colleges. I wonder where EMU now ranks with that.

The university I thought had hired an alum fund raiser who I have yet to hear from although kudos to Graggs I'm now hearing from the AD office once a month.

I don't think of myself as rah rah more frustrated than anything else but not willing to throw in the towel. In fact I purchased my first season ticket football ticket last year (50 yard line with no one taking any seats around me-how sad) and increasing donations. Better to be part of the solution than part of the problem.
02-19-2007 10:15 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #4
Lot (!) of mistakes were made
yep, Miami, CMU, etc. went through the mascot issue without a train wreck like we did.

I hate to bring up ghosts from M-Dead board but remember our old friend who posted every week or two about websites and merchandise.

Here is the Wayne State site.

http://wsuathletics.cstv.com/school-bio/...rwear.html

Great merchandise. No silly Swoop. An "agressive" Warrior 'W' vs a kids' mascot.

EMU can do better. 03-idea and I mean ACROSS the board. I'm not just talking about websites and merchandise - those are secondary issues.

EMU needs to get this train back on track.
02-19-2007 11:34 AM
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TheWoodenNickle Offline
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Post: #5
 
Question: Has EMU's enrollment dropped because of EMU's well-publicized issues or has enrollment dropped because the State economy is struggling? My thought is that both are contributors but that the State economy is the signifigant factor. The Detnews report implies that EMU's issues are the reason behind the decrease.

Many of the students tuitions are paid for, either directly or indirectly, by the Big 3. When those companies suffer the regions economy suffers. That includes EMU. EMU is closer geographically to Detroit than WMU and CMU.

You also have the GVSU factor. The overall student population among the 4 schools on the chart went up 10% during the 10 year span. WMU and EMU both lost student during this period and CMU had only a modest gain. GVSU's student count has grown nearly 50% in this timeframe! Perhaps students are choosing GVSU over the MAC trio (did the reporter even look at this chart before writing the article?). It's kind of like the auto industry. WMU, EMU, and CMU are the Big 3 and GVSU is Toyota. It's all about market share.

For those of us that work everyday with statistical tools there is nothing more frustrating than seeing a reporter make conclusions based on assumptions. The data should do the talking.
02-19-2007 03:15 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Wooden Nickle my take on your comment/question
I really don't see a State of Michigan issue here.

I see students making choices among similar institutions.

GVSU has gotten to be the "HOT" school among the schools below UofM and MSU for students West of Lansing. (it doesn't hurt to be the "Boston Celtics" of D-II FB).

Kids from the Western part of Michigan this decade seem to be picking GVSU over WMU.

EMU's attendance drop isn't very great (6%) so I wouldn't try to write too much into it.

I see other paragraphs in the article as more damning to EMU especially that statement from the VP of a higher education think tank.
02-19-2007 03:50 PM
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EMUAARON Offline
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Post: #7
 
as far as graduation rates, we have a low graduation rate for two reasons.

One, we accept a lot of students that other schools don't. Our philosophy is to give everyone a chance. Since we take more academically risky kids, obviously more are going to drop out. It is the unfortunate result of a worthwhile cause.

Also, a lot of students transfer into and out of Eastern. Now, if a student goes to EMU for 2 years, then transfers to Western and graduates, we are counted as having one student who did not graduate, and Western does not have this student count in their data at all. The school of record is the first 4 year university you attend. This leads to skewed data for all universities, especially EMU, since so many students transfer into and out of our school.
02-19-2007 04:17 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #8
I agree Aaron that this data
are hard to interpret accurately.

Maybe the best datum or data (at least to my mind) is the number of credit hours completed by all students for a particular sememster (e.g., fall) over time (longitudinal data).

I found that data for Wayne State. Their numbers were VERY impressive, a 16% increase from '97 to '06.

I'd like to see similar data for C/E/WMU, and GVSU.

Bottom line: credit hours completed and degrees awarded would seem to be two measurables for a university.
02-19-2007 05:48 PM
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