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Let me see now ............ JC now makes $170K going to $190K. KSU might go to $250K. Duquesne will go up to $450K. Let me think about this a while .................................. a little while longer ............................................ Yea, I would stay at Kent .......... at least for another week.

I think it seems safe to say you can color Christian GONE. Reading what he said in the Post-Gazette article (earlier in this post), and the fact he is going to talk with Duquesne, it seems clear he wants to "move up' now. There are negatives to Duquesne - it has to play second-fiddle to Pitt in a town that isn't even a very good basketball town to start with, it has a history of losing, the conference isn't all that much better than the MAC (many years it is ranked just one notch higher). But, it IS in a more highly regarded conference, and one that is not for all intents and purposes a one-bid conference, as is the MAC. Moreover, they can pay him much, much more than Kent ever could. Maybe he won't get the Duquesne job, but there will be plenty of other opportunities. Laign Kennedy has to be now thinking about (and I'm sure he is) basketball post-Christian, thinking about getting the right guy to be the NEXT Waters/Heath/Christian.

Kent 76 Wrote:........... Moreover, they can pay him much, much more than Kent ever could. Maybe he won't get the Duquesne job, but there will be plenty of other opportunities. Laign Kennedy has to be now thinking about (and I'm sure he is) basketball post-Christian, thinking about getting the right guy to be the NEXT Waters/Heath/Christian.

Would someone please explain to me how a Duquesne can pay much more than a KSU.

Football.

Good question, GFlash68. I've often wondered how so many D-I programs can pay their basketball coaches what they do. I would suspect that Axme is correct - the lack of football.

There is the long view to consider for JC's career. Given that he is an ambitious guy and wants to end up at a big program, the next job decision is critical. Five years from now, it won't matter what he did at Kent State if he flops in the next program. Consider:

1. Duquesne is a bottom feeder in the A10 and has been one in recent history. After seeing what happened to Gary Waters at Rutgers, how much of a rebuilding project does J.C. want to take on? If he can't turn around Duquesne, it's a career ender at an early age. Gary Waters left for more money, too, (although not enough). Anyone calling him these days?

2. J.C. hasn't won a post season game as a head coach. If he wins one or two, he gets called for much bigger jobs. He's close here. J.C. likes what he has coming back. So what that the A10 is a multiple bid league...Duquesne is at no risk to get one of those bids any time soon. He may eventually get back to the NCAA there, but it's four-five years down the road. Does J.C. want to wait that long for another shot at an NCAA win, especially when another trip is within site with the Flashes?

3. His boss at Kent State will be on the Selection Committee for the next four years. Current AD at Duquesne is not, and not likely to be.

A couple of things I would like to comment on.

1. If Kent State drops football they don't necessarily become a Cleve. St. or Youngstown St. They could become a Butler, Temple, Gonzaga or Wis-Mil.

2. Also while some people slammed the Horizon league I think you will find that they get multiple bids more often and often are ranked slightly ahead of the MAC. This year 15th vs. our 16th e.g.

One of our problems is in Ohio we really tend to overrate the quality of play in the MAC. Also most of the cities are small markets or in the case of EMU about the 10th most important sports team in a big market. We need to somehow get away from that. Also if you are a casual college sports fan you assume every sport at Kent is as bad as football. If your outside of the Midwest and you ask someone who is the best basketball team in the Mac you are just as likely to hear Miami or Ball St. as you are to here Kent State. To really improve we need to pay our coaches more (let's face it Laing will pick a dog sooner or later) and have some consistency. Leaving the MAC might be the only way as good coaches are more and more shying away from one bid leagues.

Excellent points made, as always, on this board. FlashFan, you are right. It would seem to ME that Christian would be better off in the long run by staying rather than by going to Duquesne, but I have no idea what his thinking may be. Of course, it could all be moot, as he may not even be offered the job. Burden, you may be right, in that MAC fans tend to overrate the MAC (It WAS down this year, and with a few exceptions such as Kent in 2001 and 2002, EMU in the early 90's, Ball State before that, hasn't made much NCAA noise), but my experience is that non-MAC fans in Ohio tend to underrate it. Many feel it isn't much better than D-III, which is, of course, absurd. You could also be right about out-of-state people mentioning somebody other than Kent being the best in the MAC, but coaches, such as Geno Ford, have said that Kent now has somewhat of a name around the country. Of course, if Kent were to hit a rough skid, the teams that have had a name for decades (Miami, especially) would rise quickly back to the top.

Just read that the Gonzaga coach makes $600,000 per year now and is in his fifth year as head coach. As a base of comparison, just hard for me to believe that a school like Duquesne can offer $150,000 less than that to start, given the differences in success and revenue streams between Gonzaga and Duquesne. Also very hard for me to believe that the offer is that great if an OSU assistant turned it down.

One more point, there is the new Mrs. Christian and what she wants to do career wise to consider.

Invest in your strength. Do a BCG growth share matrix analysis on the KSU athletic programs and you will have a clear idea on what to do. Stars, dogs, cash cows, and question marks...

The Horizon is not consistently better than the MAC. The MAC had a horrible year and was only one spot below the Horizon. The Horizon and MAC are pretty equal on top most years with Milwaukee, Butler and UIC having recent postseason success. But the MAC middle is a lot better most years.

Nobody really does know exactly what would happen if KSU dropped down in football, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

The lack of a postseason win hits the nail on the head. A lot of coaches can brag about 18-20 wins a year. But you have to win an NCAA game or two before you move right to the forefront or have a buddy in high places. As good as Murray State has been recently, I don't think their coach gets the job at Cincy without the Cincy connection.

Quote:Invest in your strength. Do a BCG growth share matrix analysis on the KSU athletic programs and you will have a clear idea on what to do. Stars, dogs, cash cows, and question marks...

Amen. I just don't think any of us have the courage to put under the big, sick dog in the KSU athletics budget.

My thinking is that Duquense may be looking at Jim Christian to fix a sick program. Makes a certain amount of sense - his ability to recruit from lower level Div-1 (Warzysnski and Q) and JC (Youngblood, Smith) suggest that he could turn that program from terrible to pretty good in just a couple of years. As bad as things have gone, I would think that Duquense would be pretty happy to score some 18-20 win seasons.

Getting to another level is still a question mark. Christian still hasn't won a post-season game, and it wouldn't get easier at a program that's been in the dumper for so long. The A-10 is a pretty good confernence, but it isn't all that much better than the MAC. Christian could follow up the success of Waters and Heath; he'd be on his own in Duquense. He would have the problem of trying to convince a kid moving up that D is a better choice than a SIU or a Kent (might be a tough sell for a while).

Christian will get attention, but I would be surprised if he took this one unless there are some underlying reasons that we don't know about. It seems like a step backwards in almost every way except for salary. I don't buy the multiple bid argument at all, especially with how the mid-majors handled themselves this year; I would think that the committee will put a little more faith in the new RPI and the Missouri States and Hofstras won't be on the outside in the future.

Sometimes, it's knowing when to wait for the better offer that is the key. Waters failed that and paid the price (though he will find another D-1 job, don't worry about that).

I want to post my previous proposal for a package to retain JC one more time. This package should not break the bank and there are items in the package that corporate sponsers could provide.

Quote:-Base salary $300K
-Goal oriented bonus possibilities $100k
-Media and University PR contract: $100K
-Receive the proceeds from his own BB camps: ??
-Percentage of shoe contract
-Use of new automobile
-Annuity for each 5 year period on the job: $1M
-Penalty owed by JC if he leaves prematurely except for his 5 named schools.

This is a reasonable deal if we at KSU are serious. It is below what a major program would offer. If JC likes where he is, and I would guess that he does, this is close enough to maybe get a commitment from him. What do you think?

There is no reason why KSU can not become a Gonzaga. I believe that Gonzaga's playing venue as a capacity about equal to ours. The above package is not big time, but it offers enough perks and base to keep a coach if he is otherwise happy. There is an opportunity in BB that does not exist in FB for KSU. BB can become a profit center for KSU. However, it will take additional investment. More importantLy, we must get into a position that programs in the MVC and A10 do not even look at our head coaches. I would like to think that if a Duquesne had a hot head coach, and we were searching for a new head coach, the Duquesne coach would be interested in us. WHY NOT? We have a way to go but the returns are enormous.

I agree, GF68. Would also not be surprised if what we are offering JC is not to far off your proposal.

There are some key people at and around Kent State that want to be aggressive to keep J.C. Fortunately, his boss is one of them.

Just thought I would provide some data. I looked up the RPI ranking's of the MAC and Horizon league and found the following.

5 year avg. - MAC=12.6, Horizon= 15.4 Most of the difference was
2004-05 where MAC was 10 and Horizon was 19.

10 year avg (includes old MCC Conf) - MAC= 12.6, Horizon=15.3 Again
in this case most of the difference was 2004-05 above
and 1996-97 where MAC was 10 and MCC was 25

In general MAC is slightly better but for some reason the Horizon occasionally has a very bad year. Again I feel in this neck of the woods we equate the Horizon League with Cleveland State and feel it is much worse than it really is. It would be assuming all MAC basketball is equivalent to the EMU and CMU teams of the last few years.

Every statistic will have its highs and lows. But the average is the most likely outcome. The Horizon by its standards had an average year. The MAC was well below average and only one spot below it. But the point is moot for two reasons. 1. KSU is not dropping football down to 1-A any time soon. 2. If KSU dropped its football down, it would be an extreme disappointment if it settled for the Horizon. UW-Milwaukee is the only school similar to KSU's size in the league and would be a step back athletically for the whole KSU athletic department.

I equate the Horizon to the fact that Wright State was their fourth or best team this year. Was OU, Toledo and Northern Illinois better than Wright State? Significantly. And that would be consistent every year beyond the Horizon's top 2 or 3.

Accoring to this feature in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, they "believe" J.C. talked to Duquesne yesterday. A new name has entered the picture, the head coach at Northeastern, who did interview yesterday. The same paper published Friday that Groce was the lead candidate, and just mention today they are unsure of his status.

Some interesting tidbits:

1. The salary is published here at $350K, not $450K. Not pocket change by any means, but much closer to what we can match, especially with GF68"s package.

2. Duquesne has had one 20 game win season in the last twenty years, and that was '93-'94. One of their recruits just asked out of his commitment. This is quite a turn around job.

3. The Duquesne AD really wants Groce. They are friends from Xavier days. Why does J.C. want to come in as a "second choice" to an assistant? Wouldn't he want to go as the "must have" candidate if expected to work a miracle?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06087/677432-135.stm

Good stuff FlashFan. Keep the news acoming.

More on the Duquesne story. Apparently, Groce has removed his name from consideration. Now, if a 33 year old assistant turns down $350K a year for a head coaching gig, what does that tell you about this job?

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-revi...37529.html

P.S. You'll love the line about the Dukes looking for someone from a "smaller" program.