[quote="nashvillegoldenflash"] [quote="Dodo"]I'm not sure about the graduation stats posted, because last I saw, Miami has an 80% graduation rate, which is top five in the country.

Numbers published in 2003 are for individuals entering college between 1993-1997 and earning degrees within six years.

Although the current graduation rate may be higher than the reported 38%,

[/quote]
They are higher. Numbers from 1993 and 1994 are from Faust's kids. They are to be disregarded. Use Owens numbers from 1995 - 2002 and you will get a better picture of Owens graduation rates...which are outstanding (well over 50% overall, topping 70% two seasons ago). To bash Owens because of Faust's ineptitude is weak.

From what I understand, Akron has the lowest graduation rate in the MAC. [/quote]
Then you understand W-R-O-N-G. Do your research before you spout lies. As with the Kent guy above, you can not count Faust's 1993 and 1994 classes with Owens. Do your searches from 1995 classes and beyond and you will find overall graduation rates exceeding 50%, which is well above the norm in D-1A football.

Dodo Wrote:And while we're on the topic, is Pees really in trouble, or not? 

Because on November 17, 2000 Dean Pees agreed to a two-year contract extension and the contract keeps Pees at Kent State through June 30, 2005 (the 2004 season), I don't believe Kent will get rid of him this year. Of course, Kent could buy out his contract if it wanted to release him before his contract expires but everyone knows that is not likely to happen. But because I live in Nashville and am "out of the loop" from hearing any rumblings from the Kent community, you might want to rely on my fellow brethren from Northeastern Ohio for their thoughts on this matter.

Having followed your advice and completed the research you failed to do, I discovered the following:

The most recent entering freshman class for which NCAA data is available is the entering class of 1996-1997. At <a href='http://www.ncaa.org/grad_rates/2003/d1/RPT00005.html' target='_blank'>Akron</a>, 43% of the scholarship football players that entered college in 1996-1997 graduated by the spring of 2003 (i.e., within six years, which is the NCAA's measurement point).

Comparable 1996-1997 figures for the entire MAC follow:

Western Michigan: 76%
Ball State: 72%
Toledo: 67%
Kent: 68%
Central Michigan: 61%
Ohio: 59%
Eastern Michigan: 55%
Buffalo: 54%
Miami: 53%
Marshall: 50%
Akron: 43%
Bowling Green: 42%
Northern Illinois: 35%
Central Florida: 29%

A few observations:

-- No. Miami's numbers are not acceptable to me. They seem to be trending up under Hoeppner, and some of us, at least, plan to keep the pressure on the AD about this.

-- Keep in mind that coaches frequently pad their NCAA-reported graduation rates by counting walkons (kids that have to get through the ordinary admissions process) or giving you a number that counts only players that spent all four years in the program (i.e., disregarding transfers, quits, or flunkouts).

-- Although Akron's 43% looks low, it's still a better rate than the average Akron student. Only 36% of Akron's 1996-1997 freshmen completed a degree at UA within six years.

Terry Pluto is against the firing:

<a href='http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/7281514.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/7281514.htm</a>

Captain Kangaroo Wrote:They are higher. Numbers from 1993 and 1994 are from Faust's kids. They are to be disregarded.&nbsp; Use Owens numbers from 1995 - 2002 and you will get a better picture of Owens graduation rates...which are outstanding (well over 50% overall, topping 70% two seasons ago).&nbsp; To bash Owens because of Faust's ineptitude is weak.

If what you are stating is correct regarding Owens' graduation rate, then you have my deepest apology for posting the NCAA graduation rates that I found on the Internet and implying that Coach Owens is responsible for the low graduation rate that was reported. You are absolutely correct when stating that Owens should not be responsible for Faust's recruits.

Again, my deepest apologies!!!

It is good that you defend your program. Just continue to support the Akron Athletic Department and I am sure everything will work out for the best.

Sorry Dick, but Dodo's still a dick.

Captain Kangaroo Wrote:

Dodo,Nov 17 2003, 02:35 PM Wrote:

From what I understand, Akron has the lowest graduation rate in the MAC.

Then you understand W-R-O-N-G. Do your research before you spout lies. As with the Kent guy above, you can not count Faust's 1993 and 1994 classes with Owens. Do your searches from 1995 classes and beyond and you will find overall graduation rates exceeding 50%, which is well above the norm in D-1A football. [/quote]
Lies? I said, "from what I understand." I didn't claim to have done research. Nor do I care to do research on Akron.


Lighten up, Francis.

Nice article by Pluto

ViennaPhantom Wrote:Nice article by Pluto

I agree wholeheartedly. Some of the following quotes from the article demonstate that Owens made significant improvement with Akron's graduation rate. My suggestion that Owens had a poor graduation rate while at Akron was completely wrong and for that I am deeply sorry. After reading the article, many will agree with Pluto that Owens should not have been fired. I only wish him the best.

"Not if the coach has brought stability to a program -- a graduation rate better than 50 percent in the past four seasons and very few players in legal trouble."

"Not if the coach has recruited a lot of local players, most of whom have left (or will leave) school with diplomas."

"It came down to us not winning enough games,'' Owens said. "I wish we had won more. But I also think we did a lot of things right. When I came here, we had a 1-10 record, and the graduation rate was 17 percent. It's been a battle.''

"And Owens has won in some key areas, especially in terms of stability away from the field. Three years ago, his program was honored by the NCAA Coaches Association for having a 70 percent graduation rate."

jupitertoo Wrote:Don't know how they can justify this, given the budget fiasco in the state of Ohio right now.&nbsp; Whacking a coach after a winning season....hmmm. Could there be more to this story than we know?

What is the "budget fiasco in the state of Ohio" and what does it have to do with UA's football coach? The 'story' is, a 3rd place finish in the division is not what we aspire to.
:chair:

Z-P Wrote:Sorry Dick, but Dodo's still a dick.

Why? Because I stated the truth about Lee Owen's dirty coaching philosophy? MMMM.......KAY!

ElusiveQB Wrote:I'm both upset and disappointed...as are most of the players.&nbsp; There is going to be some serious renovations going on in that program...I'm talking losing not only just coaches but players too.

IMO, its a ridiculous and stupid decision.

In Akron everything is 2nd rate....whether its the facilities, the support, etc.

Facilities and coaching are being upgraded. Support will follow. Get on board or get out of the way.

REALIST Wrote:Akron football is on the upswing.&nbsp; A new coach and new attitude.&nbsp; Players will not leave in masses.&nbsp; Any current juniors can't go to another 1-A school or they would be out of time to play.&nbsp; Any sophs would have only one year left.&nbsp; They could all go to a 1-AA school but would have to get a release from the new coach.&nbsp; You can't transfer without a release from your current school.

The new coach will be annonced by new year's day and the Zips will be on the right track. :D

I don't believe 1-A transfers lose a year of eligibility, they just have to sit out a season before playing at another school. A few younger Zips may transfer but for a junior it's probably not worth it for 1 more season. I'm sure they will want to meet the new coach before deciding. It may be a lean recruiting year now that we're in transition. IMO what we need badly is an announcement, design drawings and timetable on a new stadium, then we'll see some real "acceleration".

nashvillegoldenflash Wrote:

ViennaPhantom Wrote:Nice article by Pluto

"Not if the coach has brought stability to a program -- a graduation rate better than 50 percent in the past four seasons and very few players in legal trouble."


"It came down to us not winning enough games,'' Owens said. "I wish we had won more. But I also think we did a lot of things right. When I came here, we had a 1-10 record, and the graduation rate was 17 percent. It's been a battle.''

"And Owens has won in some key areas, especially in terms of stability away from the field. Three years ago, his program was honored by the NCAA Coaches Association for having a 70 percent graduation rate."

I assume Devil Grad will dismiss these statistics as fabrications? I'm glad I didn't pay your hourly rate for research. DG. Then again...at $125.00 per hour...you probably spent all of 13 seconds on your shoddy Google search...that means I would have owed you $0.45. Actually, 45 cents for shoddy, slanted research sounds about right? :D

In summation: If you are complaining about Owens graduation rate, you have no clue what you're talking about. That's ok. You can always hide behind the "I don't care to research Akron" excuse if facts contradict your argument.

Below is an excerpt from a 2001 article highlighting football programs with graduation rates exceeding 70%. I don't see Miami...but...son of a gun...THERE'S AKRON? :eek:

********************************************************************
Baylor honored for graduation rate
Monday, Jul 2, 2001
By Staff


WACO, Texas (BP)--The Baylor football program has been recognized by the American Football Coaches Association for graduating 70 percent or more of its football players, the organization announced this week.

Notre Dame and Vanderbilt share the 2001 AFCA Academic Achievement award for recording a 100 percent graduation rate. Baylor joins 27 other institutions in being recognized for graduating 70 percent or more of their football players, including seven institutions that had a graduation rate of 90 percent or better.

The institutions receiving honorable mention are: Akron, Ball State, Baylor, Buffalo, Duke, Hawaii, Indiana, Iowa, LSU, Marshall, Michigan, Mississippi State, Nebraska, Northwestern, Oregon, Penn State, Rice, South Carolina, SMU, Syracuse, Texas Tech, Tulane, Tulsa, Virginia, Wake Forest, Washington State, Western Michigan, Wyoming.

My shoddy, slanted research came directly from the NCAA's official graduation rate reports, something you could find on line and double-check for yourself.

The AFCA numbers always run higher, and I tried to offer you a couple of explanations for that. Herd fans could attest that this is a question that has bugged me for a couple of years. (Pruett routinely wins these AFCA awards while reporting official rates to the NCAA of around 50%.) I have heard Hoeppner discuss a Miami graduation rate of 90% that he touts to parents of recruits, but I believe that counts all players (including walkons) who spend at least four years in the program -- the difference, I guess, is that he chooses not to report this more selective number to the AFCA.

I did not suggest that you fabricated anything. Rather, I pointed you toward the one consistently calculated common baseline source of data and suggested reasons why the numbers Lee Owens cites on his own behalf might differ.

And, FWIW, my hourly rate $410. Let me know where to send the bill.

Now kindly shut the ****** up and stop questioning my integrity.

Can I borrow 20 bucks?

What? To buy pumpkin-flavored beer for the MACC tailgate? Uhhh, no.

Dodo will just have to bring his own, I guess.