Redwingtom Wrote:Don't know if this has any bearing on offensive player of the year award or not, but the nominee list for the Vern Smith Award as the overall MAC player of the year does not include Gradkowski nor Wolfe. It has Lance Moore and Josh Haldi, so if the schools have to nominate their players for Offensive POTY, Bruce and Garrett may not even be eligible to be voted for.

It does not, but it's a good point to bring up. The Vern Smith award is based on teams' nominations, and I fully understand our nominating Josh Haldi over Wolfe after Garrett's late season mistake, plus Wolfe's likely two more years. And Josh proved his worth to this team in the first 3 games - 1-2 without him.


As for the all-MAC teams, those are media and coaches votes, I believe, and nominations for all rewards are irrelevant here. I think Jacobs had some great stats, but I'd sure like to see the voters look past just that and look at the amazing stats Garrett Wolfe put up. Plus, we did a pretty darn good job containing Jacobs in our matchup - he got a big chunk of yardage and a TD pass late when we were up big.

Wolfe averaged over 200 yards per start! That is absolutely phenomenal when you're talking about 6 games. In addition, in another game - in only one half - he had over 200 yards. Not to mention the fact that he's leading the nation in scoring - I do believe that scoring is the most important part of sports.

By comparison (since someone on the main MAC board made this argument:

Michael Turner (2003) - 12 games/12 starts, 310 carries, 1,648 yds, 5.3yds/carry, 137.3yds/game, 14 TDs, 19 recpts, 230yds, 3TDs, 3 KO returns, 58 yds. All-purpose - 1,936yds, 161.33 yds/game, 5.83yds/touch; 17 TDs, 1.42 TDs/game, 8.5 pts/game.

Garrett Wolfe (2004) - 10 games, 6 starts, 241 carries, 1,572 yds, 6.5yds/carry, 157.2yds/game, 17 TDs, 10 recpts, 117 yds, 3 TDs, 11 KO returns, 231yds. All-purpose - 1,920yds, 192yds/game, 7.33yds/touch; 20 TDs, 2 TDs/game, 12 pts/game.

Keep in mind that Garrett's stats are done in 2 less games and without the benefit of getting significant carries in 3 other games. He had 34 carries and 3 receptions in the first three games, and 1 carry in the first half against BG.

As far as MAC Offensive Player of the year goes, it should be hands-down Garrett Wolfe. The majority of his work - 1,470 rushing yds and 17 TDs - was accomplished in six and a half MAC games. Do the math - that amounts to 226 yds rushing and 2.6 TDs per MAC game. You're telling me that Jacobs' stats, while impressive in their own right, are more impressive than that? And oh yeah, Wolfe's team was 7-1 in the MAC, with the one loss being the game he missed. And oh yeah, Wolfe didn't have the benefit of racking up 652 yards and 8TDs passing against two pathetic teams (SEMO St & Temple - NIU played Maryland, Iowa St and the best team in 1AA, So Illinois).

I think it's clear. The numbers Wolfe put up in the conference season are THE story of the year outside of who won the divisions. If everyone is too enamored with some passing stats to not see how unbelievable Garrett's stats are, then they aren't paying attention.

No doubting Wolfe's stats are awesome, but what did he do in the biggest game of the year for NIU when they needed him most against Tole_o? His incident on that Saturday night took him out the running for any POTY year awards IMO. He will still garner a second or HM team selection most likely.

Sat, Sep 4 at Minnesota L 21-63 --
Sat, Sep 11 at Kansas L 14-63 --
Toledo lost its first two games by a combined total of 126-35 with Gradkowski!!!
This was a disgrace to the MAC! Bowl games are against non-Mac opponents.

Sat, Sep 4 at (2) Oklahoma L 24-40 --
Sat, Sep 11 Southeast Missouri State W 49-10
BG's Jacobs lost by only 16 points to a much much better team than Minnesota or Kansas.

Against non MAC teams Jacobs performed alot better than Gradkowski !

Finally BG beat Temple W 70-16, Toledo only beat Temple 45-17, hence Jacobs over Gradkowski again!

Final tally: BG 143-66
Toledo 80-143
Who has a better non MAC record?

Redwingtom Wrote:No doubting Wolfe's stats are awesome, but what did he do in the biggest game of the year for NIU when they needed him most against Tole_o? His incident on that Saturday night took him out the running for any POTY year awards IMO. He will still garner a second or HM team selection most likely.

Dude, you're not going to pull the "what did he do in the big games" stuff out, are you? Your guy had shaky stats at our game, in a decisive loss, then had good stats, though not nearly his same completion percentage, losing his other big game. Wolfe had 200 yards in one half to make BG look second rate.

Sorry - the "big game" argument doesn't work here. Wolfe showed up more and was 1-1. As for second team or HM - I hope you're joking. If Wolfe isn't POTY, he's easily the top votegetter for 1st team RB.

sterling1man Wrote:Sat, Sep 4 at Minnesota L 21-63 --
Sat, Sep 11 at Kansas L 14-63 --
Toledo lost its first two games by a combined total of 126-35 with Gradkowski!!!
This was a disgrace to the MAC! Bowl games are against non-Mac opponents.

Sat, Sep 4 at (2) Oklahoma L 24-40 --
Sat, Sep 11 Southeast Missouri State W 49-10
BG's Jacobs lost by only 16 points to a much much better team than Minnesota or Kansas.

Against non MAC teams Jacobs performed alot better than Gradkowski !

Finally BG beat Temple W 70-16, Toledo only beat Temple 45-17, hence Jacobs over Gradkowski again!

Final tally: BG 143-66
Toledo 80-143
Who has a better non MAC record?

Okay, to continue your logic:

Friday, November 23rd, Gradkowski defeats Jacobs

sterling1man Wrote:Sat, Sep 4 at Minnesota L 21-63 --
Sat, Sep 11 at Kansas L 14-63 --
Toledo lost its first two games by a combined total of 126-35 with Gradkowski!!!
This was a disgrace to the MAC! Bowl games are against non-Mac opponents.

Sat, Sep 4 at (2) Oklahoma L 24-40 --
Sat, Sep 11 Southeast Missouri State W 49-10
BG's Jacobs lost by only 16 points to a much much better team than Minnesota or Kansas.

Against non MAC teams Jacobs performed alot better than Gradkowski !

Finally BG beat Temple W 70-16, Toledo only beat Temple 45-17, hence Jacobs over Gradkowski again!

Final tally: BG 143-66
Toledo 80-143
Who has a better non MAC record?

Gradkowski doesn't play defense for Toledo. Our defense was the embarrassment. Oh well though, we beat BG and are playing in the MAC Championship while Omar and his little friends watch it on TV! :rofl:

Redwingtom Wrote:No doubting Wolfe's stats are awesome, but what did he do in the biggest game of the year for NIU when they needed him most against Tole_o? His incident on that Saturday night took him out the running for any POTY year awards IMO. He will still garner a second or HM team selection most likely.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense...I mean who cares about stats right?

Especially the biggest stat of them all scoring. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Please no more posts from people who make no sense, it's getting hard to take!

HuskieDan Wrote:

Redwingtom Wrote:No doubting Wolfe's stats are awesome, but what did he do in the biggest game of the year for NIU when they needed him most against Tole_o?  His incident on that Saturday night took him out the running for any POTY year awards IMO.  He will still garner a second or HM team selection most likely.

Dude, you're not going to pull the "what did he do in the big games" stuff out, are you? Your guy had shaky stats at our game, in a decisive loss, then had good stats, though not nearly his same completion percentage, losing his other big game. Wolfe had 200 yards in one half to make BG look second rate.

Sorry - the "big game" argument doesn't work here. Wolfe showed up more and was 1-1. As for second team or HM - I hope you're joking. If Wolfe isn't POTY, he's easily the top votegetter for 1st team RB.

Yeah...but at least Jacobs played in both big games...and played well.

My only point is that Wolfe will lose votes because of the off field incident, not to mention that I don't think he even played that much in the first three games of the season did he?

Also for Jacobs, he played one half against SEMO, one half against Temple, three quarters against CMU, one half against Ball State, one half against Western and did not attempt hardly any throws against Marshall in the fourth quarter.

Redwingtom Wrote:

HuskieDan Wrote:

Redwingtom Wrote:No doubting Wolfe's stats are awesome, but what did he do in the biggest game of the year for NIU when they needed him most against Tole_o?  His incident on that Saturday night took him out the running for any POTY year awards IMO.  He will still garner a second or HM team selection most likely.

Dude, you're not going to pull the "what did he do in the big games" stuff out, are you? Your guy had shaky stats at our game, in a decisive loss, then had good stats, though not nearly his same completion percentage, losing his other big game. Wolfe had 200 yards in one half to make BG look second rate.

Sorry - the "big game" argument doesn't work here. Wolfe showed up more and was 1-1. As for second team or HM - I hope you're joking. If Wolfe isn't POTY, he's easily the top votegetter for 1st team RB.

Yeah...but at least Jacobs played in both big games...and played well.

My only point is that Wolfe will lose votes because of the off field incident, not to mention that I don't think he even played that much in the first three games of the season did he?

Also for Jacobs, he played one half against SEMO, one half against Temple, three quarters against CMU, one half against Ball State, one half against Western and did not attempt hardly any throws against Marshall in the fourth quarter.

Wolfe didn't have nearly as many touches in our first three games, but he did score in each of them. And my point is this - 95% of Wolfe's stats were generated in 6.5 MAC games. If we're naming the MAC O POTY, what better player to name than the one that had staggering stats generated mostly in the MAC season.

Jacobs was great this year, but his numbers are not really outrageous stats. They're damn good, no doubt. But averaging 225 yards per MAC game is a hell of a lot more staggering than 300 yds per game passing.

You're right - he may lose votes for missing the one game. But I still say that Wolfe's stats are downright bizarre, while Jacobs' are very impressive.

QUOTE (sterling1man @ Nov 26 2004, 03:38 PM)
Sat, Sep 4 at Minnesota L 21-63 --
Sat, Sep 11 at Kansas L 14-63 --
Toledo lost its first two games by a combined total of 126-35 with Gradkowski!!!
This was a disgrace to the MAC! Bowl games are against non-Mac opponents.

Sat, Sep 4 at (2) Oklahoma L 24-40 --
Sat, Sep 11 Southeast Missouri State W 49-10
BG's Jacobs lost by only 16 points to a much much better team than Minnesota or Kansas.

Against non MAC teams Jacobs performed allot better than Gradkowski !

Finally BG beat Temple W 70-16, Toledo only beat Temple 45-17, hence Jacobs over Gradkowski again!

Final tally: BG 143-66
Toledo 80-143
Who has a better non MAC record?

Gradkowski doesn't play defense for Toledo. Our defense was the embarrassment."

First two games: Jacobs scored 11 TD's versus Gradkowski who scored only 5 TD against a much weaker defense! Clearly Oklahoma has a far better defense than Minnesota or Kansas!
To add to Jacobs’s superiority, is that he does not have the quality of receivers which Gradkowski has, yet his stats are head and shoulders above Gradkowski's!

Against Temple: Jacobs beats Gradkowski by 10 TD - 6 TD (Same defense!)
The BG-Toledo game Gradkowski outscored Jacobs 7-6 TD. Yet Gradkowski had far better receivers.
That is only one game! (What about the other 10).

I understand the rocket faithful believe the ALL MAC prediction should be based on one game, and the other 10 should be ignored.
We call that pseudo-Rocket science!
The only way you can rank Gradkowski (who is great) against a much greater Omar Jacobs is by using emotional arguments which ignore statistics!

To choose the best QB in the MAC overall statistics should be the major deciding factor.
To ignore them is complete folly! Do Toledo fans prefer Gradkowski simply because he is one of their own? Does race play a factor?

To rank Gradkowski ahead of Jacobs or Wolfe despite the latter two having much better stats smells of narrow mind ness and possibly bigotry.

I challenge Rocket fans to take an honest look at their evaluating criteria?

I've been reading this set of MAC boards for a couple years now, yet the only place that race is ever brought up is this board. I do not understand it.


Making an argument for Gradkowski it quite easy - he's the leader of the best team in the West and arguably the best team in the conference, no matter how bad their defense was early in the season. And all-conference does not necessary have to entirely come down to comparing stats that specifically - the big point is that each have some phenomenal QB stats.

As for race - I really think some posters need to get some actual evidence to back their outrageous claims before spouting them off.

Thought it was interesting during the halftime show that Scott Lowenburg mentioned the Motor City Bowl as one bowl that the Huskies were still pushing hard for. Something just tells me this is where the Huskies end up. I think the MCB really wants NIU this year.
I've already emailed the director of the MCB pleading the Huskies case.

MaddDawgz02 Wrote:Thought it was interesting during the halftime show that Scott Lowenburg mentioned the Motor City Bowl as one bowl that the Huskies were still pushing hard for. Something just tells me this is where the Huskies end up. I think the MCB really wants NIU this year.
I've already emailed the director of the MCB pleading the Huskies case.

They're lobbying everyone, but I sincerely doubt we'll be in the MCB.