When I friend of mine worked at Temple the Big East was squeezing them to improve attendance. They came up with a deal that if you got together a group like 30 or more people you not only got in free but they would also send a bus to pick up the group. They had the largest percentage increase in attendance in the nation that year.

As a Temple season ticket holder and graduate, I can tell you that the last post is completely false.

My Take.....

5.SBC. I like how this conference is shoring up geographically. In the short term the future looks good here. If WKU could step up to 1-A and play in the Belt the league would have a nice little 9 member FB conference. Long term this conference will be prone to raids by either CUSA, MAC, or even the WAC. The SBC will have to scramble to maintain 8 1-A programs which is going to hamper attempts to upgrade the TV package.

4.WAC. Benefited from realignment. I like the potential of USU and NMSU. Too bad they couldn't shake away LaTech. The WAC is an easy target for raids by the MWC. The MWC is the vulture circling this conference. The travel costs suck. Not much you can do about that out West. The bowls in this conference are atrocious. All the WAC bowls are played in somebody's home stadium. Really only two bowls because the Hawaii bowl is exclusively for Hawaii and they are normally bowl eligible. These issues will hold this conference back in the future.

3.CUSA. League on the way down. Don't see how adding the four worst WAC football programs year-in/year-out is going to do anything but pull this conference downward in strength. They should of made a move early in the expansion process to take a look at more MAC schools than Marshall and UCF. League could be raided by the Big East or the MWC. Could split because of geography and too much dead weight. The bowls in this conference has are overrated. The Liberty Bowl is good but its played in the home stadium of Memphis, and it goes where Memphis goes..... The GMAC bowl is solid shared with the MAC. Ft.Worth Bowl moves to the MWC with TCU. NO bowl vs. SBC champ has attendance problems. Hawaii bowl vs. the WAC. CUSA has quantity but not quality. On the bright side, this conference has a pretty good chance of a long term existence because they can always raid the WAC or SBC for members.

2.MAC. Master Mid Major. The oldest non-BCS conference and historically the most stable. Only non-BCS conference with a neutral site championship game and basketball tourney. Only non-BCS conference with 2 neutral site bowl games. May have a third neutral site bowl game in Toronto or Indianapolis. The TV deal currently is modest when compared to CUSA but it has a lot of ability to improve in upcoming years with CSTV and ESPNU. While this conference is stable there is always the outside possibility of the Big East raiding someday. Football strength and attendance is always going to be difficult for this league. A remote possibility is a split from this conference by the better football playing schools. With 12 members, the MAC does have the depth to withstand a raid. Overall, the MAC has a promising future for upgrading its bowl and TV status.

1.MWC. Best Non-BCS conference. The MWC has the best TV deal, attendance, and long term potential. One could argue if the Big East is a BCS conference, why not the MWC? Two members with National Championships in football (BYU, TCU). The only non-BCS conference to have a team play in a BCS game. A remote possibility exists for the MWC to be raided by the PAC-10 or the Big XII. Even if the MWC is raided, they can always reload with any WAC or CUSA school they want. Could become a BCS conference in the near future. The future is very bright for this conference but it has a lot of work to do on getting better bowl tie-ins if they want over the non-BCS hump.

0.Big East. Worst BCS conference. A TV deal that when its all said it done is not going to have much more value than the MWC's. No evidence from the play of the new BE football lineup of being able to maintain a BCS bid. Bowls are backing out on this conference left and right because they don't travel well. They do have great basketball which sets them apart from any non-BCS conference. And they can always raid the MAC or CUSA at will for members with that basketball......even if they lose the automatic BCS qualifier. The future does not look exciting here with the Big Time FB status in jeopardy. Could always lose a school or two to the Big Ten or ACC down the road. I just don't see the Big East as having potential to be anything more than a marginal BCS conference.

adeluca6 Wrote:As a Temple season ticket holder and graduate, I can tell you that the last post is completely false.

Maybe you just don't know the right people.



Just say <span style='font-size:30pt;line-height:100%'>NO</span> to Temple.

adeluca6 Wrote:As a Temple season ticket holder and graduate, I can tell you that the last post is completely false.

and it's true that Temple has season ticket holders?

I spend each year traveling to various college football games. I go from Coast to Coast some years. This year I will go from W. Virginia to Tempe, Arizona. I have been dong this for quite a few years now.

Having graduated from Eastern Michigan, Michigan, and Florida, I have some insight to the MAC. I would not intend to portray that Eastern is any kind of force in football. Their record is obvious. What I do detect, however, is what another poster said about MAC marketing and name recognition. The MAC, outside of the Midwest is not very well known. Folks refer to them as little schools with little knowledge that WMU has 27,000 students, CMU has 26,000, etc. They mean little by athletic prowess, I suspect.

I have watched the college football world turn into a kind of mess. This mess involves money, money, and more money. There are only about 50-60 schools that really "count" nowadays thanks to the nasty BCS system and it's bowl tie ins. This leaves a whole lot of schools on the "outs". The MAC, CUSA, and Sunbelt are for the most part on the "outs", getting crappy bowls at best.

I foresee in the future the dark spectre of government intervention as it appears the big time schools are hell bent to continue on down the path to keep the money in the hands of the big Conferences. This will force the smaller Conferences to cry foul and in will jump Congress using it's powers under the Sherman Anti-Trust Act to try and restore some stability to the collge ranks. Not a good solution I feel, but one which I see as inevitable.

Back to the MAC. What they need to do is market their Conference, not just play in the Big House, or at Oklahoma now and then. Let the rest of the country know the conference, it's traditions, its decent record against top BCS teams, and it contributions to professional ranks. This is a first start. They also need to step up and be a voice against the Big Conferences domination of the places where all the money resides, in the bowl venues. To stay silent is to stay Mid-Majaor or even less.

:D

Gatorama Wrote:They also need to step up and be a voice against the Big Conferences domination of the places where all the money resides, in the bowl venues. To stay silent is to stay Mid-Majaor or even less.

I agree the MAC really needs to promote itself, and really stand up to certain injustices that happen to Mid-Majors. If the league really starts making comments like I know we can play in a BCS game if given the opportunity. I would like the MAC to challenge some of the big money schools through the media that we deserve a certain bowl game over their 5th school. The MAC needs to start calling out other schools and conferences, and people might start to know about the MAC, and think it’s a conference on the rise. The MAC needs to be more aggrieve about everything.

Temple's football attendance isn't as bad as some of you of this board might think it is. Check out the numbers:

1999: 20,771
2000: 18,612
2001: 18,440
2002: 19,077
2003: 24,137
2004: 16,456

adeluca6 Wrote:Temple's football attendance isn't as bad as some of you of this board might think it is. Check out the numbers:

1999: 20,771
2000: 18,612
2001: 18,440
2002: 19,077
2003: 24,137
2004: 16,456

Thats because of the conference they were in. Even if I wasn't a Temple fan and lived in the area and a big time school was playing in Philadelphia I would go to. You put Temple in the MAC and they draw less than 16K a year. Temple played BG at home this past season and if I remember correctly they only had around 12k or so, and BG has gained national exposure over the last few years. What will happen if Temple was ever in the MAC and the lower tier teams in the MAC come to visit? Temple's attendance marks over the past couple years that you are showing won't even come close if they joined the MAC. Can't reflect on what they have done in the past because that is like comparing apples to oranges when you compare the Big East to the MAC.

Sorry, just cruising around NCAAbbs and decided to join in on this thread.

My overall rankings reflect Platt's, but here goes...

Overall
5) Sun Belt
4) WAC
3) MAC
2) C-USA
1) MWC

Quality of Football
5) Sun Belt
4) WAC
3) C-USA
2) MWC
1) MAC

National Media Recognition
5) Sun Belt
4) WAC
3) MAC
2) MWC
1) C-USA

Just my $0.02, but it will be interesting to see what everyone thinks after 5 years. The whole topography of conference alignment might very well undergo another major uphevel.

Take care, and good luck...!!!

Falcon Frenzy Wrote:

adeluca6 Wrote:Temple's football attendance isn't as bad as some of you of this board might think it is.&nbsp; Check out the numbers:

1999: 20,771
2000: 18,612
2001: 18,440
2002: 19,077
2003: 24,137
2004: 16,456

Thats because of the conference they were in.

I don't think it was. In 2001 Temple had it's 2nd largest home crowd of the season for their game against Toledo. The only game that drew more was against Miami Fl. Their other Big East games drew less than Toledo did.

rocketfootball Wrote:

Falcon Frenzy Wrote:

adeluca6 Wrote:Temple's football attendance isn't as bad as some of you of this board might think it is.  Check out the numbers:

1999: 20,771
2000: 18,612
2001: 18,440
2002: 19,077
2003: 24,137
2004: 16,456

Thats because of the conference they were in.

I don't think it was. In 2001 Temple had it's 2nd largest home crowd of the season for their game against Toledo. The only game that drew more was against Miami Fl. Their other Big East games drew less than Toledo did.

I realize many schools "pad" their attendance figures, but I would love to see some audited numbers on Temple's 2004 football season.

I was at The Linc for the BG-Temple game, with an announced attendance of 12,316. That number could only have been accurate if they were counting hands, possibly fingers.

rocketfootball Wrote:

Falcon Frenzy Wrote:

adeluca6 Wrote:Temple's football attendance isn't as bad as some of you of this board might think it is.  Check out the numbers:

1999: 20,771
2000: 18,612
2001: 18,440
2002: 19,077
2003: 24,137
2004: 16,456

Thats because of the conference they were in.

I don't think it was. In 2001 Temple had it's 2nd largest home crowd of the season for their game against Toledo. The only game that drew more was against Miami Fl. Their other Big East games drew less than Toledo did.

I am just going by the yearly averages not individual games. I used BG as an example to show "right now" if they only drew 12k for BG this past season, averaged 16k for the year with a Big East schedule, I don't see how their numbers will be about the same or better with a MAC schedule.

travel cost for cusa are better than most think... for UCF its cheaper than the mac.. many cusa schools are in major citys with major airports.. much cheaper to fly there.. when ucf checked it travel for football goes down other sports go up... but we still come out way ahead with the bigger tv deal.. Marshall found much the same.. travel was going up but overall revenues went up more.

The problem with the MAC is that it has been dominated by only a small number of teams during the past few decades. Marshall,Miami, Toledo, and Bowling Green. Northern Illinois has also emerged. Kent State, Akron, Ohio, EMU,CMU, Ball State,UB and Ohio have poor track records in football recently. Having a wide open season like basketball would really make the conference stronger. Ohio a good year is 4-7. That doesn't get the big crowds out. If Ohio were pull an early upset and contend late into the MAc season, then the Ohio alumni base would raise attendence figures. Same for Kent State. Both these programs have been down for 30 years. If Solich were to beat a ranked Virginia Tech in 06'in Athens, this would really turn the Ohio program and the MAC around in a hurry. The tough schedules that Ohio and Ball State play next year give the MAC a chance to pull some upsets that would get national attention.Last year Toledo let the MAC down by embarrasing the league in losses to Minnesota and Kansas. We can not have out top teams get their butts kicked by mid level big ten and big 12 teams. The MAC must also give up playing I-aa teams. Bowling Green and Miami both talk about being top 25 calibur then schedule Liberty and Indiana State. Same thing for NIU playing SIU. If we are to be considered a BCS conference, then we must play 1-a teams as a conference. Ohio has scheduled cream puffs like this too. This includes basketball where Miami plays Findley, Bowling Green played Bluffton and Kent State played Notre Dame of Ohio. These teams could have played any of 326 teams, but didn't. And we wonder why we are 1 bid league when top teams whimp out and then wonder why their bubble is busted because they lack enough quality wins non-conference. Miami and Bowling Green playing Michigan and Oklahoma is what helps this league. Ohio playing VMI doesn't. Winning non-conference football games is the key. Playing football teams like Kentucky, Indiana, Duke, Vanderbilt, Baylor and Kansas are smart for the MAC. These are are BCS teams that are very beatable for most Mac teams. Ohio's win at Kentucky was a big win as far as image for the MAC. This was an SEC team getting waxed at home by a bottom feeder of the MAC. Nobody in Lexington, KY will doubt the MAC again.

OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote:Ohio's win at Kentucky was a big win as far as image for the MAC. This was an SEC team getting waxed at home by a bottom feeder of the MAC. Nobody in Lexington, KY will doubt the MAC again.

God bless the Bobcats for what they pulled off down there.

But don't blow it *completely* out of proportion.

Bowling Green won down there 20 years ago.

I really think that the MAC teams need to try & schedule smart. For example: Play 1 big time school, 1 historically lower level BCS school, and 1 Div 1A non-BCS school (from SBC or WAC).

That way - 1 good payday & possibly 2 wins if you have a good team. If you get lucky, maybe 3 - 0. I think that Ball State is scheduling crazy - BC, Missouri & Purdue all in the same season. Their team may have been mentally destroyed right out of the chute.

It might be smart for the League itself to try & set-up something with say - the WAC. Kind of like the Big 10 / ACC challenge they do in basketball - only the MAC could do it in football. Just an idea.

99Tiger's rankings...

5. SBC
4. WAC
3. MAC
2. CUSA
1. MWC

Where did my rankings come from? I tried thinking about FB and BB, overall national perception, tradition, and TV revenues.

I think everyone would agree that the SBC is currently in the worst shape. The WAC can be solid in FB (Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii), but they're pretty bad in basketball and they're a MWC expansion from desperation mode.

The MAC probably has the most to gain right now. They've really exploded onto the scene recently with the FB success. BB...eh, they don't really come to mind. (I'm sure you'll let me know what I'm missing) But they're also stable. The TV $$ doesn't seem to be following the recent growth in respect.

CUSA is in the most dangerous position...frankly put, we have a lot to prove and a lot to lose (beyond what we've already lost). Southern Miss has been a traditionally strong program...Marshall was the darling of ESPN for a while and are well known...Memphis is getting much more attention beyond basketball recently...well, I won't bore you with the rest. In the end, this conference could splinter quite easily or just implode while trying to prove that we haven't lost a step.

The MWC is in the best shape...they have a BCS appearance...a Final Four appearance...and even though most can't point out where their schools are on a map, people know them. The also have a lot to lose, but that's just because they are on top of the non-BCS heap at this time. Taking TCU from CUSA certainly didn't hurt their status either.

BTW...IF Memphis were to go to the BE...an additional loss to CUSA would be the Liberty Bowl which has already publically stated its interest in maintain relations with whatever conference Memphis is in. IMHO, that may be our trump card if there is another round of expansion.

Kit-Cat Wrote:0.Big East. Worst BCS conference. A TV deal that when its all said it done is not going to have much more value than the MWC's. No evidence from the play of the new BE football lineup of being able to maintain a BCS bid. Bowls are backing out on this conference left and right because they don't travel well. They do have great basketball which sets them apart from any non-BCS conference. And they can always raid the MAC or CUSA at will for members with that basketball......even if they lose the automatic BCS qualifier. The future does not look exciting here with the Big Time FB status in jeopardy. Could always lose a school or two to the Big Ten or ACC down the road. I just don't see the Big East as having potential to be anything more than a marginal BCS conference.

The Big East will be fine. Louisville is a Top 10 program, Pitt is projected as a Top 15 or 20 program next year (they were one of the youngest teams in the nation last year), West Virginia just picked up, arguably, the best running back in the nation, Cincinnati is bringing in a Top 50 recruiting class, South Florida a Top 40, etc., etc. Being a marginal BCS conference though still makes it the 6th best conference in America. As for being raided by the ACC and Big Ten, the ACC isn't going past 12 (neither is the SEC), and the Big Ten has no interest in anyone other then Notre Dame. The Big East has as much room for potential then any conference. I don't know why there are people who act like every conference in America other then the Big East can improve. As for bowls backing out "left and right", the Big East is also adding a big time bowl (Big Apple Bowl), probably the Liberty Bowl if Memphis joins and still have the Insight and Continental Tire Bowls. There is also talk of an Indy Bowl and a Bowl down in West Virginia, the conference will be fine Kit Kat.

99Tiger Wrote:But they're also stable. The TV $$ doesn't seem to be following the recent growth in respect.

nice post...just wanted to offer my opinion on one thing. First the MAC needed to get the initial contracts to get on TV alot, which they did and I believe ESPN was pleased with how it turned out. Next you worry about the money. Next contract might not be as much as CUSA, but I bet it's pretty close. Last year might have been a trial year to see how the ratings would go and if they'd be consistant, which I believe the ratings were excellent across the board. The big year the MAC had in football 2 years ago with all the MAC schools downing big name programs opened up the way for a tv contract, and that will lead to a higher paying contract because of its success.


Cats Claw, don't forget about the bowl that their trying to get sanctioned in Toronto that's supposed to be a MAC-BE matchup.