Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Why cant we all just get along?
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
bigolhawg Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 479
Joined: Jun 2002
Reputation: 0
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #1
 
As I orginally posted on the ASU board:

I keep hearing Arkansas fans on the Razorback board here and just in conversation when I'm out and around the state make fun of Arkansas State and say they are happy that the school is in serious danger of dropping down to D-1AA.

Whats the big deal? We should support and encourage State, as nothing annoys me more than only having one viable college team in our state.

Razorback fans that try and keep the Indians down are only hurting this state and themselves by not encouraging some in-state competition. If Mississippi can support three strong football programs, I know Arkansas can.
07-20-2002 12:32 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


calling_the_hogs Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,096
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 5
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #2
 
People would support Arkansas State if Indian fans, no offense, got a grip and stopped blaming Arkansas for their personal troubles.

I used to support both UA and stAte, as did many Arkansas fans. Little by little stAte fans wore myself and other Razorback fans down. ASU decided to move up to Division I-A in football. The result put them in a ton of debt that was being paid for by Arkansas taxpayers. The main problem stems b/c the Jonesboro metro area is approx. 77,000, and of those 77k, about 50k of them are Razorback fans first and foremost.

State then demanded (not asked, demanded) that they get a chance to play Arkansas. Frank Broyles said no, and issued a set of guidelines in which he'd let stAte play UA in football. Among these were that 1) the state pop. of Arkansas has to exceed 4 million, and 2) Arkansas State must average a home crowd even or bigger than the smallest SEC stadium (Vandy's at 41,500). State fans exploded and began to blame Frank Broyles for everything wrong with the ASU athletic program. This goes as far as even saying Broyles had a conspiracy to keep ASU off the back front cover of Hooten's Arkansas Football. Just ludicrous. Instead of rolling up their sleeves, winning some games, and trying to sell their program, they go and attack the Razorbacks. They even tried to mock with bumper stickers saying "How long will the HOGS run?". Arkansas fans started ignoring them, because they were little babies who demanded a free handout, instead of trying to build an athletic program through hard work like UA did.

Frank's reasons, though, in my opinion, are sound ones. Coach Broyles built the Arkansas program from the ground up. With Orville Henry's help, the Razorbacks became the team of the state and earned a fan base and media monopoly. Notice the word earned in there. Broyles knew the state population and knew what kind of fan base and media were needed to keep UA a nationally prominent program. Having your annual rival as a Sun Belt team, when you're in the SEC, is not only bad business, but it risks the fan base and media attention that UA has. Would you, as an Athletic Director, risk years of hard work building a fan base and media market to play some little school in Jonesboro who just turned D-1 and haven't worked to create a fan base, instead just expected it to come, and then when it doesn't, whine about it? Hell no.

The stAte protests grew further. Rep. David Rackley, an ASU grad and big Indian fan, created a bill forcing a permanent yearly game between Arkansas and Arkansas State. This was the true trigger, as Arkansas and ASU fans went to war on the issue. Led by Rep. Bill Pritchard (R-Elkins), the bill was soundly defeated, 85-26.

State fans used to attract big crowds, because Razorback fans from Jonesboro and NE Arkansas would go watch them if the Razorbacks were on the road. This isn't happening anymore, though, because ASU fans attacked the one fan base they need to stay 1-A. ASU's athletic program is in so much debt, playing 1-A schools, that their President attempted to move roughly $2 million of AR TAXPAYER MONEY from their academic program to their athletic program. Students have to pay a fee to try and cover their bills. There simply isn't enough support for ASU to maintain 1-A status, and it'll continue to be that way if ASU doesn't mend fences and stop this idiotic anti-HOG rhetoric.

On a last note... Mississippi might have 3 1-A teams, but go check <a href="http://www.ncaachampionships.com" target="_blank">www.ncaachampionships.com</a> and see how many nat'l titles they all have, and then check their attendance figures. Athletic programs are all about business. If Wal-Mart moves into a town, stays a long while, builds a customer base..then a K-Mart is built and suddenly they demand the same customer base, though selling worse products...is that fair? Arkansas v. Arkansas State would bring Arkansas State up, but it will bring the UA dramatically down fiscally. Razorback fans who truly love the UA won't stand to see our school sink to a lower level b/c of the whining of people in Jonesboro.

Only way I'd let stAte play UA would be...

1) Arkansas State expanded their stadium to over 40,000
2) Arkansas State became self-sufficient..aka the state taxpayers don't have to fund their program
3) Arkansas State averages over 40,000 in attendance
4) Arkansas State joined a better conference football-wise...at least Conference USA.

Til then, stop whining at us, stop blaming us for your own problems, and prove to us you can make it in 1-A. THEN we'll play you.

WPS
07-20-2002 01:55 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Rebel_Rx Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,273
Joined: Apr 2002
Reputation: 3
I Root For:
Location:

Crappies
Post: #3
 
i might be confused about how ark fball works
but i don't think who ark plays is your decision
i know we don't have any say so in who Ole Miss plays
does ark fball work differently
07-20-2002 02:12 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


calling_the_hogs Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,096
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 5
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #4
 
Lynnie

As far as I know, athletic directors choose which schools they play. Coaches have some clout in the decisions, but ADs set it all up.

I know for football Coach Broyles and Coach Nutt make the deals as a team. For hoops, Broyles has let Stan Heath create his own schedule, and baseball, Van Horn got to take Nebraska off b/c he was coach there last year.

But as football is concerned, Coach Broyles makes the big decisions...Coach Nutt has some say.

WPS
07-20-2002 02:30 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Rebel_Rx Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,273
Joined: Apr 2002
Reputation: 3
I Root For:
Location:

Crappies
Post: #5
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by calling_the_hogs:
Only way I'd let stAte play UA would be...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
07-20-2002 02:42 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


whos_your_dawgy Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 752
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 3
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #6
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by calling_the_hogs:


On a last note... Mississippi might have 3 1-A teams, but go check <a href="http://www.ncaachampionships.com" target="_blank">www.ncaachampionships.com</a> and see how many nat'l titles they all have, and then check their attendance figures. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Since when do championships have anything to do with supporting a school?

As far as attendance figures go...

Population of Arkansas......2,673,400
UA attendance..................60,705
ASU attendance.................10,776

Population of Mississippi...2,844,658
UM attendance..................45,740
MSU attendance.................42,351
USM attendance.................25,649

Even Jackson State averages 29,067 fans a game.

So, based on population, I don't see why Arkansas couldn't support two D-1A football teams. IMO, it's good for the state of Mississippi to have 3 solid programs. That being said, I'm NOT supporting UM or USM. I don't think UA fans should have to support both schools. Some may want to do it, and that's fine, but I wouldn't expect it.
07-20-2002 04:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
calling_the_hogs Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,096
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 5
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #7
 
Lynnie... I say that acting as if I was AD.

You forgot this part Cass

"Athletic programs are all about business. If Wal-Mart moves into a town, stays a long while, builds a customer base..then a K-Mart is built and suddenly they demand the same customer base, though selling worse products...is that fair? Arkansas v. Arkansas State would bring Arkansas State up, but it will bring the UA dramatically down fiscally."

I'm not saying that the state of Arkansas can not support 2 Division 1-A teams. What I am saying is that the state will NOT support two Division 1-A teams if one school (ASU) is running their department into debt using taxpayer money (in fact running it so badly into debt that their AD, Paul Griffin, quit after 7 mths.), while the other (UA) is completely self-sufficient and in the black.

UA has been the only game in town for a long time. The whole state backed the Razorbacks from the get go, similar to Nebraska. Now ASU has gone 1-A. ASU had two choices... 1)build a strong fan base by getting UA fans from NE Arkansas to go watch them when UA is away, and saying that fans could support both schools, or 2) try to build one by visciously attacking UA and then trying to get the state legislature to FORCE a rivalry between the schools. They chose the latter, and it has backfired on them. Not only are they not getting a lot of fan support, they're turning on the fans in NE Arkansas that they sorely need to stay 1-A. Need proof? The Indians managed a home game against Ole Miss...and still had over 11,000 empty seats. Over 5,000 of the 22,000 were Ole Miss fans. ASU doesn't have the fan base, and it's all, according to them, Frank Broyles's fault.

This whole issue is NOT about can Arkansas support two Division 1-A programs. It's about ASU whining and crying because the rest of the state doesn't agree, or care, about them in any way. The Indians made it clear that their rival was Arkansas. If you don't believe me... check out their board Tribal Grounds, or The Indian (http://www.astate.net I think), where they have the UA logo burning. The Razorbacks, on the other hand, do not consider ASU their main rival. Most HOG fans could care less about them, and it hacks ASU off. They then go out and say that if you're for ASU, you can't be for UA. The result? Attendance levels of under 11,000.

This state always has and always will be Razorbacks first. If ASU wants to stay alive, they have to earn their share in attendance and fan base, and mend a lot of bridges with UA fans.

WPS

<small>[ July 20, 2002, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: calling_the_hogs ]</small>
07-20-2002 07:05 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


HogQueen Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 100
Joined: Jul 2002
Reputation: 3
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #8
 
If State Fans would stop wanting UA to play them....then everything would be ok...

State is putting it on themselves..
07-21-2002 08:34 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SouthsideTheTrueRebels Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 53
Joined: Jul 2002
Reputation: 0
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #9
 
Okay,

I'm very open about this subject and have 2 views basically.

First of all, Josh Driscoll who is the QB of stAte is my cousin, so I've got to see their side of the argument too. stAte does bring a lot of this on themselves. They've always hated Arkansas fans and the Razorbacks. It's almost gotten personal. ASU is decent at best. They did almost beat Ole Miss last year. I don't see why they don't average more fans. There has to be a reason their AD stepped out. State just doesn't have the fan support to be a big time school.

On the other hand, JFB's guidelines are kind of strict. He shouldn't expect stAte to average 40,000. I don't believe their stadium even holds 40,000. JFB is not responsible for their problems, however. ASU doesn't have near the enrollment as the UofA. They just about have to have taxpayer support especially with a 2nd tier program.

When it comes down to it, in my opinion, State needs to stop griping. That's one reason Arkansas won't play them. If Arkansas win's, i'm sure State will say they cheated or come up with some classic excuse. JFB could lower the guidelines and atleast give State the time of day. Or if we don't play them in football, I don't see why we couldn't play them in basketball or something like that.

Just something to think about!
07-21-2002 09:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


bigolhawg Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 479
Joined: Jun 2002
Reputation: 0
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #10
 
If UA played State every year, it would only benefit State. I know this, and so does everyone else. But, the point is, that UA should be helping State all it can, because two viable D-IA programs in this state is great for everyone involved.

It makes sense that State fans put the blame on Uncle Frank because he is the one that placed goals for State to reach in order to play UA. Frank should be trying to help State acheive those goals instead of setting them higher than could ever be reached.
07-22-2002 04:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
calling_the_hogs Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,096
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 5
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #11
 
Why should Frank Broyles try and help stAte?

Frank's job is to help UA, and UA only. He does that to the best of his ability, and it's incredible what he has done in his time here.

If UA played stAte, UA is risking a whole lot. First, media coverage. Secondly, UA/stAte fans might become full stAte fans. State hates UA so much, we lose fan support. Third, recruiting. Arkansas has to recruit against Tennessee, Ole Miss, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, etc. for recruits. The last thing UA needs is trouble recruiting in-state, which is exactly what State would do for them.

Simply put, playing State is bad business for UA. It helps them, and hurts us, even if we kick their butts every single time we played 'em.

Finally, State needs to, again, drop this "all of our problems are Frank's fault". That's BS, and everyone knows that too. ASU needs to worry about putting a winning product on the field. When they can do that, and start attracting big crowds for games..then their complaints will get a lil noise. The Indians lost to a 1-AA team with a GIRL on it last year. There needs to be some major priority shifting in J'Boro.

WPS

and PS - go to Tribal Grounds and listen to those Indian fans. With what they say about UA, why on God's green Earth should we EVER help them. They're digging their own graves, screw 'em!

<small>[ July 22, 2002, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: calling_the_hogs ]</small>
07-22-2002 04:48 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.