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David Krysakowski Offline
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Post: #1
 
The MAC will only have Temple for 3 seasons, then they will return to the Big East as a full member.
 
06-19-2005 08:55 AM
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Gang Green Offline
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Post: #2
 
If the Big East does split...who says Temple is a lock to be chosen. They need to improve their athletic programs...especially Football.

If the Big East does split, They'd probably add four programs so they can have a conference championship game. Conference would be all sports.

Schools I think they'd consider would be:
Penn State (longshot)
Notre Dame (longshot)
Memphis
Temple
Toledo
Bowling Green
Miami (Ohio)
N.ILL
East Carolina
Central Florida
Marshall
Army
Navy
U. Mass (upgrade from 1-AA)

Current Members:
UConn
Rutgers
Syracuse
Pitt
Cincy
So. Florida
Louisville
West Virginia

My prediction of the 4 teams added:
1) Memphis
2) Toledo
3) Temple
4) Navy (football only); Add another program for all sports except Football.

I think they would only add one team from Ohio since they already have Cincy. Bowling Green and or Miami (ohio) would be good choices also. N.ILL could also be a strong consideration.
 
06-19-2005 01:52 PM
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75rjm Offline
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I disagree with you. The BE never wanted Temple. I and many long term Temple fans have said this for years. They proved this when they gave us the Boot. Not one current BE team voted to keep us. They never respected us and I really do not see them offering us a spot. It will be the same old BE. I hope we continue with the MAC, grow with them. The only way I would change my mind is if the BE takes teams like BG, NI, Miami, and Telodo. Or if the MAC and C-USA would merge and start a new conference. I am fed up with the BE.
 
06-20-2005 06:56 AM
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David Krysakowski Offline
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Post: #4
 
I disagree with you. Villanova didn't want Temple to become a full member. That's it.
 
06-20-2005 07:48 PM
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75rjm Offline
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I know that Villanova never wanted Temple. You can think and say whatever you want, the rest of the powers to be didn't want us either.
 
06-21-2005 07:34 AM
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Every village has to have an idiot, if you think of ncaabbs.com as a villiage, you can find the special place that David Krysakowski holds here.
 
06-24-2005 06:41 AM
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FishPro123 Offline
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From what I know about the Temple-MAC deal, the percentages for Temple being in MAC for all sports in five years are a lot higher than being in BE. Somewhere between 80-20 and 98-02. Take that for what is is worth. 04-drinky
 
06-25-2005 02:03 PM
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PhillyPhlash Offline
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Post: #8
 
The BE tried to get rid of Temple since the year they joined. The only way they get back in is by dominating the MAC. As Marshall has proved, it is certainly possible. Then again UCF and Buffalo also disprove that same theory.
 
06-25-2005 05:27 PM
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NIUGAHuskie Offline
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Post: #9
 
Don't be in such a rush to get back into the Big Least. The MAC is a good conference, and could be a great fit for Temple, but if you come in for a few years and split like CFU did, we'll never know. The MAC is moving up in the collegiate sports world. I think you'll get more appreciation here then you ever did (or will get) in the BE. I hope the relationship between Temple and the MAC is better than it was with CF or MU.
 
07-18-2005 03:36 PM
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coolhandred Offline
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Post: #10
 
Temple is a very good fit with the MAC schools. We Owl fans are happy in our new home. I agree the chances are very good for joining the MAC in all sports in the next 5 years after Cheney retires.
 
07-19-2005 07:50 AM
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Philly Brian Offline
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Post: #11
 
I am sure that if football splits from the BigEast than it will get a new conference name. It will most likely pick up plenty of tv contracts and bowl affiliations. Temple could certainly be part of this as well as some other MAC teams. But right now the BigEast looks stable for more than 3 years. I would say they could last anywhere from 5 to 10 years. Sure Notre Dame would be a longshot but they have had the BigTen beg them to join many times. This tells me that they don't really want to be part of an established powerhouse conference like the BigTen. I think that ND would be happy to being the marquee team in a conference with only two or so other strong teams.
 
07-19-2005 12:45 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #12
 
2 subjects.........

On the subject of Temple back to the Big East, I think its unlikely.

1.Temple had 15 years in the Big East to show what it could do and wasn't able to make it happen. Why try the same candidate again if they didn't perform the first time around at the job?

2.Villanova. Temple has absolutely no shot at returning to that conference until they are out of the equation. Its not given that VU will go with the basketball schools after the split, and its unclear about how many years into the future it will be (5, 10, more?)

3.Rutgers. This school is only 1 hour from Philly, with some of the Philly metro actually being in New Jersey. With Rutgers being a monster school having a branch campus in Camden, NJ....the Big East probably figures it has a school close enough to Philadelphia to count it in its footprint. Rutgers is weak enough in football as it is and doesn't need a competitor.

4.Pitt. The Big East wants to keep the new conference lean and mean for football. If you already have the clear second best in Pennsylvania with Pitt, why would it make any sense to add another PA program to the Big East because it would hurt the effectiveness of Pitt's recruiting.


For Temple to get back into the Big East, the football schools are going to have to split from the basketball schools AND either Pitt or Rutgers will have to be picked up by the Big Ten.
 
07-19-2005 01:28 PM
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victory engineer Offline
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Post: #13
 
Kit Cat saying rutgers branch campus in camden has an affect on Philadelphia is like saying we are all going to become university of phoneix fans....or Indiana university of pennsylvania is going to turn out hoosier fans across the state.... come on

Rutgers can't even get intrest in south jersey let alone Philadelphia. Actaully rutgers can;t even get the intrest of town of new brunswick let alone philadelphia... heres one for you thats like saying your a threat to kentucky.

*********************************
Your first point means nothing... when you start it
"Temple had 15 years in the Big East to show what it could do" Do you really belive this??? i could see if you said we had 7 years but 15 come on ...the stake was in temples heart years ago. You know what forget it.. your are so right

*********************************

Yeah and if the big east splits nova will not go 1-A so that point is moot also...

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Don;t you have a stop light to go marvel at?
 
07-19-2005 02:12 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #14
 
On the second subject.....

As you may know, OU was the founding member of the MAC.....a conference we developed on the principal we would find other public universities in other states to form a more regional conference. This is opposed to OU's previous conference (Ohio Athletic Conference) that mainly featured private colleges from Southern Ohio.

Since the early 50's, OU, Miami, BG, KSU, UT, and WMU have been members of the MAC. The MAC was successful in bridging the southern Ohio schools (OU, Miami) and the northern Ohio schools (BG, KSU, UT) into one conference. The MAC largely failed in its mission to entice out-of-state members. Marshall joined in 1954 for its first tour of duty, but couldn't hack the MAC's academic standards and were dropped in 1968.

The MAC finally convinced NIU, Ball State, EMU, and CMU to join in the Mid 70's....mostly to prepare the MAC for the 1-A/1-AA divisional split. EMU has always been a dud for the league, and are probably only in the MAC because Central Michigan demanded it. In 1981, the MAC went to a full round robin 9 game conference schedule, and this ticked NIU off because they didn't want to be stuck playing Eastern Michigan. NIU gave the MAC an ultimatum, either EMU goes or we go. The MAC stuck by EMU and NIU left in 1986 to position itself for the Big 8 by the year 2000. The conservative leadership of the MAC damaged the conference.

As the independent era came to a close in the early 90's, the MAC once again made a boneheaded move and brought Akron into the MAC. Kent State was struggling at the time in football, and the MAC decided to put another team right next door to them to increase the competition. This was the 6th Ohio school to join the MAC, and both schools sucked mightily in football until the last couple of years.

Finally the MAC made a smart move by bringing NIU back in with a new market Buffalo and an upgraded Marshall in the late 90's. The MAC was starting to get somewhere with a televised championship game, and later a second bowl. The mistakes of EMU and Akron have been learned.....you must expand your footprint. Then came the UCF and Temple out s, inconceivable a decade earlier.

The MAC has been around for 60 years. Its made mistakes and its made improvements. The question is how far can this conference go with its current 12/13 alignment? It appears that 3 bowls are about the limit for this group because of geography and small fan bases. If its only going to be 3 bowls, why not split them among a 9 team basketball conference.

In basketball, the MAC has been a 1 bid league for the last 5 years. Why would Temple want to join the MAC in basketball when the A-10 just upgraded with Charlotte and St.Louis? The only way it would make sense is if Temple was part of a slimmed down MAC of 9 schools for higher SOS for Gonzaga like effect. Then it might be worth considering a 9 team MAC BB conference vs. a 14 team A-10.

I'm telling you Temple fans this because I know you are a new member, and I know OU is talking about putting together a new MAC....smaller and better for basketball.
 
07-19-2005 02:44 PM
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BGSUalum1987 Offline
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Post: #15
 
Kit-Cat Wrote:I'm telling you Temple fans this because I know you are a new member, and I know OU is talking about putting together a new MAC....smaller and better for basketball.
[Image: bsmeter.gif]
 
07-19-2005 03:02 PM
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victory engineer Wrote:Kit Cat saying rutgers branch campus in camden has an affect on Philadelphia is like saying we are all going to become university of phoneix fans....or Indiana university of pennsylvania is going to turn out hoosier fans across the state.... come on

Rutgers can't even get intrest in south jersey let alone Philadelphia. Actaully rutgers can;t even get the intrest of town of new brunswick let alone philadelphia... heres one for you thats like saying your a threat to kentucky.
I didn't mean to be offensive, but in my opinion Rutgers is to a degree in the Philadelphia market. Philly TV stations will cover Rutgers athletics because New Jersey is in its broadcast radius. Big East games will be very attractive to the Philly market because of the proximity of Rutgers and its BCS status.

The MAC claims Indianapolis, Chicago, Cincinnati, and Pittsburgh as markets for regional broadcasts even though none of those markets have a MAC school closer than 50 miles away. The Ohio-Marshall game was broadcasted on Fox Sports Pittsburgh......neither school is anywhere near Pittsburgh, but it shows the MAC thinks regionally when it comes to TV. I would have to assume the Big East would do the same within its footprint.

Regards to the Kentucky comment, UK is like 3 hours away in a totally different market. We are due north of Charleston WV, not Kentucky and they broadcast OU athletics in West Virginia with our flagship station being down there. We are in the same market as Marshall going south, then to an increasing degree to the north with Ohio State.

Marshall wanted to stay in the MAC, on condition that the MAC drop EMU, Akron and other non assets universities for a slimmer league. The MAC refused to do this so they moved to CUSA. Marshall is a Fresno State, and I'm in favor of pulling a MWC and keeping them out of a new MAC because they invade OU's marketspace.
 
07-19-2005 03:07 PM
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BGSUalum1987 Offline
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Kit-Cat Wrote:I didn't mean to be offensive, but in my opinion Rutgers is to a degree in the Philadelphia market. Philly TV stations will cover Rutgers athletics because New Jersey is in its broadcast radius. Big East games will be very attractive to the Philly market because of the proximity of Rutgers and its BCS status.
But you are being offensive and here's why...

You're talking to people who LIVE IN THE PHILADELPHIA MARKET.

Quote:but in my opinion Rutgers is to a degree in the Philadelphia market

However, your opinion has been refuted by people who have actual, first-hand knowledge and experience. Most folks would take that information into account and "adjust" their opinion accordingly.

Quote:Philly TV stations will cover Rutgers athletics because New Jersey is in its broadcast radius.

Again, history and reality are quite different that what you say WILL happen.

Quote: Big East games will be very attractive to the Philly market because of the proximity of Rutgers and its BCS status.

Again, history and reality are quite different that what you say WILL happen.

Kit-Cat, tune in here. Not only do I have first-hand knowledge of the market - I live in it, I also have access to deep market data since I work for a media company.

So let me paint you a picture of the market.

The Philadelphia market (NJ included) is not all that riled up about college sports. Yes, it is a PRO SPORTS market. That's what people tend to watch on TV; it's what they tend to listen to on the radio. That is not my opinion. That is hard market analysis. And it's not by a little. It's by a lot. In fact, college sports barely rates above high school sports in terms of interest.

When the Philly market thinks college sports, here's where they focus.

College football: Penn State first, everyone else a very, very, very distant second. No other area college football team even registers. So Big East games mean no more to folks here than C-USA games. In fact, data would suggest that college football fans in this area would rather watch Big Ten football.

College hoops: The Big Five rules. Temple, St. Joe, Drexel, Penn, LaSalle ... those are the schools that dominate people's attention. Villanova registers, but Rutgers does not.

So in this case, your opinions are directly refuted not only be the personal experience by people who live in the area, but by actual market data.

:ownd:
 
07-19-2005 04:01 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #18
 
BGSUalum1987 Wrote:
Kit-Cat Wrote:I'm telling you Temple fans this because I know you are a new member, and I know OU is talking about putting together a new MAC....smaller and better for basketball.
[Image: bsmeter.gif]
Is it BS..........


2002: OU AD met AD's from MiamiOH, Army, Navy, Tulane, SMU, Rice, and Tulsa with the intentions of forming a new 8 team all-sport conference. Army got cold feet and called the new league off.

2004: Bob Pruett mentions OU for CUSA expansion as the 12th school to replace TCU at the QB club meeting. Ohio AD, Tom Boeh confirmed he had been contacted by a couple of leagues concerning membership, CUSA being one of them but he didn't think they offered as much value for OU as the MAC. Boeh said the next conference shuffle was going to occur in 2009 or 2010 and at that point we'll see.

2005:New OU president and alum Rod McDavis is heard touting during public appearances that he wants OU to be like UNC Chapel Hill academically and athletically. In February, an insider to the OU athletic department said McDavis was having high level talks about putting together a new conference (new MAC). This right around the MAC announced it was once again considering expansion, with Temple being a serious candidate. McDavis announces his master athletic vision of OU being in the top 5 of graduation rates for student athletes.


A lot of schools in the MAC, particularly Miami are frustrated with the direction the conference is moving and the lack of respect it has in basketball.......with the economy changing for mid major athletics, now is the time to reposition for a new MAC. In years past, splitting up wouldn't have made enough difference but now with Temple on board more potential exists in a different alignment.
 
07-19-2005 04:07 PM
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templefan1 Offline
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Actually VU is in the Big 5 and Drexel is not considered the Big 5. Other than that, go post
 
07-19-2005 04:09 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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BGSUalum1987 Wrote:So let me paint you a picture of the market.

The Philadelphia market (NJ included) is not all that riled up about college sports. Yes, it is a PRO SPORTS market. That's what people tend to watch on TV; it's what they tend to listen to on the radio. That is not my opinion. That is hard market analysis. And it's not by a little. It's by a lot. In fact, college sports barely rates above high school sports in terms of interest.

When the Philly market thinks college sports, here's where they focus.
I understand what your argument is, and I agree with the data you are backing it with.

But.....this is not what I'm arguing about


The Big East does not have a team in Washington, DC, the market I live in. However, there is a station that carries a Big East game of the week (often with Rutgers) in my market. I watch Rutgers/WVU, Rutgers/Syracuse...probably a few more.

Philadelphia is a regional market as far as TV is concerned for the Big East, no different from Detroit and the MAC or Indianapolis and the MAC. The Big East has and will continue to get regional games on the Philly market. Also, if you live in Philly you can pick up New Jersey stations when they broadcast Rutgers.

The point is the Big East doesn't need Temple to have a presence in Philly. Its true few follow Temple or Rutgers in Philly, regardless Rutgers games will show up in the Philly market and that is what the Big East cares about.

Just think about it..............

Fox Sports Detroit picking up a WMU-Toledo football game......which is no different than....

Fox Sports Philly picking up a Pitt-Rutgers football game.

This is also why I like the Temple addition to the MAC because the MAC will have regional broadcasts in eastern PA and NJ as its footprint.

:)
 
07-19-2005 04:42 PM
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