This link says they are looking into the possibility -> http://www.heery.com/project.cfm?pid=pd&proj=200

Implications for East Carolina... discuss.

I was under the impression all of the CAA football schools would look to move up as a group, and I even wonder what ODU's plans are once they get their feet wet in 1-AA.

MongoSlade Wrote:This link says they are looking into the possibility -> http://www.heery.com/project.cfm?pid=pd&proj=200

Implications for East Carolina... discuss.

I was under the impression all of the CAA football schools would look to move up as a group, and I even wonder what ODU's plans are once they get their feet wet in 1-AA.

Another interesting question - say the whole of CAA makes the jump to D-1A. Whats the new number of non-BCS...errrr...coalition schools to BCS schools?

And if the entire CAA made the jump -- and assuming some of its members weren't plucked off for bigger/better ventures -- that's the conference I'd like to see ECU be a part of, while still scheduling attractive OOC games (Carolina, NC State, VT, etc).

MongoSlade Wrote:And if the entire CAA made the jump -- and assuming some of its members weren't plucked off for bigger/better ventures -- that's the conference I'd like to see ECU be a part of, while still scheduling attractive OOC games (Carolina, NC State, VT, etc).

Not sure which CAA teams could make the jump. JMU and ODU would probably be the most likely. George Mason has talked about adding football for years but nothing has ever come of it.
If CUSA gets pillaged by another round of expansion from the BigEast and MWC then you could see JMU in the mix and maybe a new conference from the remnants of CUSA East some CAA schools and MAC schools.

MongoSlade Wrote:And if the entire CAA made the jump -- and assuming some of its members weren't plucked off for bigger/better ventures -- that's the conference I'd like to see ECU be a part of, while still scheduling attractive OOC games (Carolina, NC State, VT, etc).

Mongo, don't start this crap! 50% of our current conference is much better than any upstart CAA Div 1A push.

GrayBeard Wrote:

MongoSlade Wrote:And if the entire CAA made the jump -- and assuming some of its members weren't plucked off for bigger/better ventures -- that's the conference I'd like to see ECU be a part of, while still scheduling attractive OOC games (Carolina, NC State, VT, etc).

Mongo, don't start this crap! 50% of our current conference is much better than any upstart CAA Div 1A push.

Then, let's take that 50% (Memphis, Fredo, Marshall, etc), then add James Madison when she upgrades. If ODU comes along, that's gravy for my money.

Besides, it's good to have a school with Madison's pedigree. They did win a national championship a couple seasons ago -- same season they had Carolina on the ropes.

MongoSlade Wrote:

GrayBeard Wrote:

MongoSlade Wrote:And if the entire CAA made the jump -- and assuming some of its members weren't plucked off for bigger/better ventures -- that's the conference I'd like to see ECU be a part of, while still scheduling attractive OOC games (Carolina, NC State, VT, etc).

Mongo, don't start this crap! 50% of our current conference is much better than any upstart CAA Div 1A push.

Then, let's take that 50% (Memphis, Fredo, Marshall, etc), then add James Madison when she upgrades. If ODU comes along, that's gravy for my money.

Besides, it's good to have a school with Madison's pedigree. They did win a national championship a couple seasons ago -- same season they had Carolina on the ropes.

As much as I would like a more South Eastern arranged Conference, I just don't think that starting a new one at this time would be advantageous for ECU. We have a league that though it has some issues, it has some schools with history and future. Yes, it has a cheesy name, and yes it has some serious attendance issues, but wouldn't some upstart Div 1aa school be faced with the same. What kind of attendance does JMU have? What about size of facilities?

Assuming James Madison will be significantly improving their facilities to go along with a rumored D1-A jump...

An association of JMU, ODU (if they were to jump), Marshall and East Carolina would be advantageous, IMHO, to anything ECU's in now.

Local fan support would be much better for conference games as I'm sure fans identify with the JMUs and ODUs better than the Tulanes and UABs of C-USA. Heck, I wonder if Bill & Mae is looking to jump with JMU because if they are, THAT's one heck of a grouping, those five outfits.

GB, the only (other) reason I kept harping on this SoCon concept a couple of years back was because I felt/still feel that ECU is best served in a better regional fit of a conference.

JMU has a long way to go as well as ODU. They might be better off setting their sights on forming a leauge with the MAC schools who actually meet attendance requirements and that could turn into a decent league.

If the BigEast keeps getting Bowl Bids, and t.v. contracts they might not expand period. Notre Dame might actually wake up and realize they have an easier road to the BCS by being in the BigEast and if that happens all of these arguments are moot.

Mongo you seriously don't have a clue when you say we need to be in the Southern conference or a conference with teams like JMU and App State.

FACT: these schools are currently at the point ECU was in the early to mid 1960's or perhaps even behind where we were then.

ECU 1964
20,000 seat Ficklen Stadium opened.

ECU

MongoSlade Wrote:And if the entire CAA made the jump -- and assuming some of its members weren't plucked off for bigger/better ventures -- that's the conference I'd like to see ECU be a part of, while still scheduling attractive OOC games (Carolina, NC State, VT, etc).

That would be like the MAC #2. yeah there are about 10 team with in 6 hours of each other, how great has that worked out that great for them??? Let me tell you, they have to have can of corn day to get 10k+ fans to show up, have 1/12th the TV deal we have in CUSA and 1/3rd the bowls, oh yeah and they have been a conference for 50 years!!! Most are large state schools in the same states.... you would think they would have some made some rivalries by that time. Nope. If the SoCo or CAA moved up they would be the MAC #2.

SJ,
If the time ever comes where the BigEast expands and looks at ECU I want you to go with Terry Holland to present our case

I am just tired of Mongo saying we should go back down to the SoCo. I thought once we got VT, UNC,UVA, and NCSU for a long home and home basis he would give up that crazy talk. Now the new 2006 modified remix is for those conferences to move up to D1a and us join them.

Sure CUSA isn't ideal for ECU, BUT programs like SMU, UAB, Tulane, Houston etc while they may not average many more fans than App or JMU they are so much more KNOWN and respected nationally.I would rather fly a few hours there than bus players 5-10 hours, class time would be missed anyway. It cost more but we make more in CUSA than we could in that version of a conference.

Now if those types of programs win several straight D1aa titles, put 25k fans in the stands constantly, move up to D1a to some conference like the Sun Belt or MAC and prove themselves on this level like Marshall, then I have no problem, but I think they are years behind where Marshall was.

StillJonesing Wrote:I am just tired of Mongo saying we should go back down to the SoCo.

You need endurance.

Quote:I thought once we got VT, UNC,UVA, and NCSU for a long home and home basis he would give up that crazy talk.

You thought wrong. I just pick my spots now.

Quote:Now the new 2006 modified remix is for those conferences to move up to D1a and us join them.

I don't see the problem because, as you say...

Quote:Sure CUSA isn't ideal for ECU,

Self-explanatory.

Quote:BUT programs like SMU, UAB, Tulane, Houston etc while they may not average many more fans than App or JMU they are so much more KNOWN and respected nationally.

Let me get this right. JMU and AppState, the last 2 D1-AA champs are less known than C-USA also-rans...? I'll bet you cash and I'd shut up about this if you brought SMU and James Madison to Dowdy-Ficklen in back-to-back weeks and the SMU game outdrew the James Madison game. I'd shut up and give ALL of this a rest.

Quote:I would rather fly a few hours there than bus players 5-10 hours, class time would be missed anyway.

Because, apparently you have loads of money to spend on airline tickets. Good for you.

Quote:It cost more but we make more in CUSA than we could in that version of a conference.

You got proof?

Quote:Now if those types of programs win several straight D1aa titles, put 25k fans in the stands constantly, move up to D1a to some conference like the Sun Belt or MAC and prove themselves on this level like Marshall, then I have no problem, but I think they are years behind where Marshall was.

James Madison and App State are not years behind Marshall. The fact that App State is preseason #1 going into this year tells me they are a consistent outfit that would do well in D1-A and if they moved up, ECU should look to join them. You can enjoy flying to El Paso all you want, or Tulsa, or wherever.

MongoSlade Wrote:

Quote:Sure CUSA isn't ideal for ECU,

Self-explanatory.

CUSA isn't ideal because it's not a BCS conference. I think we did more than enough from 1991-2002 that we should have been invited to the Big East in 2003.

Quote:

Quote:BUT programs like SMU, UAB, Tulane, Houston etc while they may not average many more fans than App or JMU they are so much more KNOWN and respected nationally.

Let me get this right. JMU and AppState, the last 2 D1-AA champs are less known than C-USA also-rans...? I'll bet you cash and I'd shut up about this if you brought SMU and James Madison to Dowdy-Ficklen in back-to-back weeks and the SMU game outdrew the James Madison game. I'd shut up and give ALL of this a rest.

YES, no one give a flying flip about D1aa ....Attendance for the last few D1aa championship games.

2005 20,236
2004 14,281
2002 12,360
2001 12,698
2000 17,156
1999 20,052
1998 17,501
1997 14,771

Come on, even the GMAC bowl sales out 40k each year. No one cares about d1aa. Heck even last year's game was a few hours away from Boone in another SoCo city and they barley cracked 20k, and this is the pinnacle of D1aa? Good GREIF. Most college football fans couldn't tell you who were the best teams in D1aa or anything about App State or JMU or the SoCo.

CUSA is a brand, people remember if nothing else big time hoops 4-6 bids and Louisville and Marquette going to the final 4, many could actually tell you things about programs like SMU (pony express, death penalty, member of a major conference the SWC about a decade ago.....UAB basketball tradition, and beating Kentucky to go to the Sweet 16 a couple of years ago.....Tulane top 10 run in the late 90's....Houston another former big time program in a big time league not to mention phi slamma jama... It's all about perception and people know the programs in CUSA. Not to to mention there are other sports to think about and CUSA basketball and baseball far exceed the SoCo or CAA.

Quote:

Quote:It cost more but we make more in CUSA than we could in that version of a conference.

You got proof?

CUSA has 7 bowl tie in's, a $12 million dollar TV deal, and a championship game revenue. Heck yeah this conference can offer more money to us, look around. Take the MAC for example they now have only 3 bowls, and have a TV deal that is only $1 million total. I even think the MAC is to good for to be compared to CAA/SoCo and it took 50 years for them to get to where they are.

If the CAA/SoCo moved up to D1aa why do yout think they would they be any better than the Sun Belt??? Seriously most Sun Belt teams were strong D1aa's or at the top when they made the jump and are only a few years removed from D1aa and the best they have is ONE bowl playing the CUSA #5. Why do you think TV and bowls are going to fawn for the SoCo or JMU or App?? is it the 15k-20k total that watched the Championship game?? or Harrisonburg VA or Boone NC, Statesboro GA aren't exactly large media markets with much pull. If you want, proof look at there current TV deals, why do you think if they move up it will be any better?

Quote:

Quote:Now if those types of programs win several straight D1aa titles, put 25k fans in the stands constantly, move up to D1a to some conference like the Sun Belt or MAC and prove themselves on this level like Marshall, then I have no problem, but I think they are years behind where Marshall was.

James Madison and App State are not years behind Marshall. The fact that App State is preseason #1 going into this year tells me they are a consistent outfit that would do well in D1-A and if they moved up, ECU should look to join them. You can enjoy flying to El Paso all you want, or Tulsa, or wherever.

Marshall built a brand new 38k seat stadium WHILE they were in D1aa, you know why?? because they were consistently averaging 20-25k fans, a good 10k more than APP or JMU. They also won multiple D1aa titles.

It's late, but I'll comment on this one (partial) quote..

Quote:ES, no one give a flying flip about D1aa ....Attendance for the last few D1aa championship games.

2005 20,236
2004 14,281
2002 12,360
2001 12,698
2000 17,156
1999 20,052
1998 17,501
1997 14,771

Come on, even the GMAC bowl sales out 40k each year.

Ok, you say that the GMAC sales out 40K a year..? Dude, you better go check the stats. Last year's game had an attendance mark of 35,422. Now, based on that math I learned from our proud institution of higher learning, that's a difference of roughly 5K.

Next, you also realize that the NCAA hasn't announced an official attendance count for the '04 game...? So it's safe to assume the GMAC Bowl hasn't eclipsed the 40K since Louisville left the conference.

Come back to me when you can prove the GMAC is currently selling out it's 40K seat venue.

MongoSlade Wrote:Ok, you say that the GMAC sales out 40K a year..? Dude, you better go check the stats. Last year's game had an attendance mark of 35,422. Now, based on that math I learned from our proud institution of higher learning, that's a difference of roughly 5K.

Next, you also realize that the NCAA hasn't announced an official attendance count for the '04 game...? So it's safe to assume the GMAC Bowl hasn't eclipsed the 40K since Louisville left the conference.

Come back to me when you can prove the GMAC is currently selling out it's 40K seat venue.

The point sailed completely over your head

But just so you know I am not a liar, I will prove to you that I am more right than wrong.

GMAC Attendance
2000 40,300....+100 % capacity
2001 40,139 ....100% capacity
2002 40,139.... 100% capacity
2003 40,620..... 99% capacity
2004 Can't find this one, but Memphis was in it I bet it sold out.
2005 35,422... 87.2% capacity

Sorry I didn't pay attention this year, but I knew the GMAC bowl had sold out quite often in the past.

Regardless, the point was these 3rd tier type of bowls with 6-5 non BCS teams in them STILL have much, MUCH more interest surrounding them it's not even comparable to D1aa.

Take another look

NCAA D1aa championship games
2005 20,236
2004 14,281
2002 12,360
2001 12,698
2000 17,156
1999 20,052
1998 17,501
1997 14,771

35,400 is still a LOT better than what D1aa normally draws. No one cares about D1aa, that was the point.

Mongo you had better go ahead and concede defeat. You will never win this argument
You hold an opinion that virtually no other ECU fan has about the direction of the program. If our leadership in the past had the defeatist attitude you have we would not have a Medical School, we would not be on the verge of becoming the 2nd largest University in N.C., we would not have a expanded Ficklen, Murphy Center, Clark-LeClair stadium etc..
Your dream is to have us kicking around in the Southern Conference or playing CAA teams
Sure there is some local interest for William & Mary and App State but there is a hell of lot more interest for Navy,VT,UVA,WVU,UNC,NCST,USM,UCF,Marshall,Memphis etc..
If you like the CAA and So.Conference so much why did you not become a bandwagon fan of theirs instead of Unz???

If Mongo's dream had been realized we would still be playing here...



Instead of here...



No thanks lmfao

MongoSlade Wrote:And if the entire CAA made the jump -- and assuming some of its members weren't plucked off for bigger/better ventures -- that's the conference I'd like to see ECU be a part of, while still scheduling attractive OOC games (Carolina, NC State, VT, etc).

And which bigger/better ventures would that be Mongo? The ACC, the SEC, or the Little East?

As far as this wHole deal you have a hard on for to see ECU in a "better regional conference" I'll say the following:

I can't argue that your dream conference for ECU would mean closer games for fans. Geography is waht it is and these schools are located where they are. But past that you have never given any imperical proof that it would better for ECU in terms of money, national exposure, alumni support (meaning approval), and recruiting D1 talent other than it's just what you THINK. Oh, my bad. You have cited that game with W&M a few years back where the attendance was good. Was the attendance good because of the two teams playing? Prove it! It was an early season game, the weather was nice, it was Parents Weekend for ECU students. ALL of those factors could have been the reason the attendence was good. To assume every game against a team from the SoCon or CAA would be as well attended is pure conjecture on your part. It could have been a statistical fluke.

Money wise, what proof can you offer that your dream conference would pay ECU more than what we get from being in CUSA now? Compare the TV money and conference revenue sharing, bowl tie ins, etc to either the SoCon or CAA to CUSA now and make your best case we would do BETTER in your dream conference.

And then there is the impact that being in a conference with those schools would have on ECU in the perception of the all important sports media machine. Now Mongo, do you REALLY think the media would see ECU as making a step up joining those schools? Hell no. We would get lambasted as moving down to playing D2 schools in a new D1 conference. And if you feel ECU is having a hard time attracting D1 talent now, what would it do to our ability to attract the kind of talent we want. Go ahead. PROVE to me that recruiting would get better playing those schools.

As for me, right now, CUSA is the best place for us to be. Yeah the geography ain't great but for a young conference it has done pretty good so far and I see it only getting stronger as time goes on. I'd like the money a BCS conference brings, and who is to say CUSA won't earn it down the road? It beats the thought of joining the Little East right now with TrainedGeese in charge. And ECU sure as hell ain't go get no help from the ACC and Jhonny Swofford. He would rather take ODU or W&M over us any day. Which is what I think you were alluding to in your quote at the top of my post. And why would you want ECU in a conference if the very teams you want us to play were picked off by "bigger/better ventures"? The reason seems very transparent to me.

CrownRoyal Wrote:You have cited that game with W&M a few years back where the attendance was good. Was the attendance good because of the two teams playing? Prove it! It was an early season game, the weather was nice, it was Parents Weekend for ECU students. ALL of those factors could have been the reason the attendence was good.

The Bill and Mary game was a well attended game. In fact we had 40,179 BUT there are several factors at play here.

#1 We were preseason top 25 by many publications, yes we lost by 2 to Wake in game #1 but I think after we beat Tulane 51-24 in game #2 most pirate fans were still feeling pretty up about the team for game #3.

BUT the MAIN explanation that Mongo fails never to mentions

#2 .... William and Mary was first game after September 11th. No games of any kind were played on Sept. 15 so you had people not only hungry for football. Also If you recall people at this time need something to get there mind off of problems in the world and you had this American defiance attitude, that "we are going to live our lives and the terrorist aren't going to interrupt it". I think a lot of people came out just for those reasons, it was part of healing getting out being with other people type deal.


We haven't played many D1aa's in the last 15 years, and the ones we do play are pretty much the 1st game of the season, so it's hard to judge what those games would be like if they were in November. Anyone that knows football knows the first game is usually well attendanded and historically it pretty much drops each game. How would Bill and Mary do in game #11 when we were 4-6??