Airport KC Wrote:The MWC has computer ratings on the par with the Big East....so the thinking is the MWC could steal the Sun Bowl from the Big E with UTEP in the fold........

You're not listening.

The Sun Bowl is operating independantly of which conference UTEP is in.

If the Sun Bowl was trying to keep associated with UTEP, they'd be trying to fill one of it's slots NOW with a C-USA team in the hopes it'd be UTEP.

It's clear that the Sun Bowl is not really interested in getting UTEP - they want to pick from BCS conferences - so it matters little which conference UTEP is in because if it isn't a BCS conference, the Sun Bowl isn't interested. And no matter how hard you wish it, the MWC is NOT a BCS conference.

All this posturing by the MWC is futile. The BCS is not looking to add another conference into the "automatic BCS bowl bid" fold. In fact, the situation is the exact opposite, what with all the talk about the BE not deserving their auto bid, that the BCS would rather REDUCE the number of conferences getting auto bids.

Nope, the MWC is stuck on the outside, just like C-USA, and we can only hope to get an at-large spot in a BCS bowl.

FastCat Wrote:

Airport KC Wrote:The MWC has computer ratings on the par with the Big East....so the thinking is the MWC could steal the Sun Bowl from the Big E with UTEP in the fold........

You're not listening.

And no matter how hard you wish it, the MWC is NOT a BCS conference.

The funny thing is Airport KC is a fan of Ohio (a MAC school)...he's just here trying to have fun getting a rise out of us CUSA supporters.

FastCat Wrote:

Airport KC Wrote:The MWC has computer ratings on the par with the Big East....so the thinking is the MWC could steal the Sun Bowl from the Big E with UTEP in the fold........

You're not listening.

The Sun Bowl is operating independantly of which conference UTEP is in.

If the Sun Bowl was trying to keep associated with UTEP, they'd be trying to fill one of it's slots NOW with a C-USA team in the hopes it'd be UTEP.

It's clear that the Sun Bowl is not really interested in getting UTEP - they want to pick from BCS conferences - so it matters little which conference UTEP is in because if it isn't a BCS conference, the Sun Bowl isn't interested. And no matter how hard you wish it, the MWC is NOT a BCS conference.

Well, I don't disagree about the Sun Bowl's formula for success, but it isn't hard to argue that a 12 team MWC with Fresno, Boise and UTEP wouldn't change the equation a bit- more regional teams to choose from, better chance at a highly ranked team, bigger fan bases to travel if UTEP isn't there. As more bowls realize the importance of regional tie-ins for long term stability, I think you'll see the accross the country tie-ins become less common. But you're probably right- the MWC would either need an autobid or look like it has momentum toward getting one. I think a 12 team MWC would have enough momentum, that the Sun would have to at least consider the possibility.

a 12 team MWC with BSU, FSU, & UTEP would be worthy of challenging for a BCS autobid.

NCAA Tournament Teams last year:

CUSA 2/12
WAC 2/9
MWC 2/9

Yes I know that Memphis went to the Elite 8, but CUSA as a basketball conference is not all that. The loser schools like ECU, USM, Tulane, and SMU need to step up.

No it doesn't change the equation at all. The Sun Bowl has always been about having BCS schools period. If the Sun Bowl was interested in the MWC you guys would already know about it. UTEP has no influence on the Sun Bowl and this comes from UTEP fans themselves.

The MWC can't steal or take anything from anyone. Simple as that.

MinerThreat Wrote:a 12 team MWC with BSU, FSU, & UTEP would be worthy of challenging for a BCS autobid.

NCAA Tournament Teams last year:

CUSA 2/12
WAC 2/9
MWC 2/9

Yes I know that Memphis went to the Elite 8, but CUSA as a basketball conference is not all that. The loser schools like ECU, USM, Tulane, and SMU need to step up.

The BCS isn't handing out BCS bids and no matter what the MWC hopes for it is not going to happen. UTEP, BSU, and Fresno does make sense in the MWC but it doesn't equate to BCS status. Those old heads aren't going to split all of that money with another conference. And if it wasn't for begging purposes the BE would have been left out in the cold.

I know you're not a proponent of UTEP being in the BE MinerThreat but please don't make the Miners to be all of that and a bag of chips while trying to thumb your nose at schools like ECU, USM, Tulane and SMU.

You don't want to go there!

HiddenDragon Wrote:No it doesn't change the equation at all. The Sun Bowl has always been about having BCS schools period. If the Sun Bowl was interested in the MWC you guys would already know about it. UTEP has no influence on the Sun Bowl and this comes from UTEP fans themselves.

The MWC can't steal or take anything from anyone. Simple as that.

We'll have to disagree about it changing the equation, then. I think if there is anything we have learned from conference realignment and new bowl contracts is that equations certainly do change, and that you can't assume that because something is true now, that it will still be true in the future. For now, I can only say that if I were on the Sun Bowl committee, I wouldn't make any absolutes and examine each opportunity that arises, especially changing scenarios that involve the conference UTEP is in.

Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:We'll have to disagree about it changing the equation, then. I think if there is anything we have learned from conference realignment and new bowl contracts is that equations certainly do change, and that you can't assume that because something is true now, that it will still be true in the future. For now, I can only say that if I were on the Sun Bowl committee, I wouldn't make any absolutes and examine each opportunity that arises, especially changing scenarios that involve the conference UTEP is in.

The Sun Bowl will examine each opportunity that arises period without UTEP or its conference affiliation. TV dictates a large part of what the Sun Bowl does and that will not include showing a non-bcs program on CBS.

Until then if the MWC ever invites UTEP it will be based on UTEP achievements and geography and nothing to do with the Sun Bowl.

MinerThreat Wrote:a 12 team MWC with BSU, FSU, & UTEP would be worthy of challenging for a BCS autobid.

NCAA Tournament Teams last year:

CUSA 2/12
WAC 2/9
MWC 2/9

Yes I know that Memphis went to the Elite 8, but CUSA as a basketball conference is not all that. The loser schools like ECU, USM, Tulane, and SMU need to step up.

MinerThreat...are you MaximumOrange?

Even if lets say..UTEP was to join the MWC with two other schools...guess what would happen..you guessed it..

MWC 2/12

Wow, talk about moving up

The MWC will not be recieving a BCS autobid..even if BSU, FSU, and UTEP were to join it..so there would be no point for us to join that conference. Reliving old WAC memories is not what UTEP is about anymore..its about moving forward. The MWC does not offer UTEP anything much better than C-USA does at the moment.

UTEPDude Wrote:

MinerThreat Wrote:a 12 team MWC with BSU, FSU, & UTEP would be worthy of challenging for a BCS autobid.

NCAA Tournament Teams last year:

CUSA 2/12
WAC 2/9
MWC 2/9

Yes I know that Memphis went to the Elite 8, but CUSA as a basketball conference is not all that. The loser schools like ECU, USM, Tulane, and SMU need to step up.

MinerThreat...are you MaximumOrange?

Even if lets say..UTEP was to join the MWC with two other schools...guess what would happen..you guessed it..

MWC 2/12

Wow, talk about moving up

The MWC will not be recieving a BCS autobid..even if BSU, FSU, and UTEP were to join it..so there would be no point for us to join that conference. Reliving old WAC memories is not what UTEP is about anymore..its about moving forward. The MWC does not offer UTEP anything much better than C-USA does at the moment.

But wouldn't it be closer to an autobid than the CUSA (and isn't it currently even without those teams)? Everyone seems to agree that if you have the opportunity to join a league with an autobid, you should do it (even though no autobids are guaranteed in the future). If that is the case, why wouldn't you want to join a league that has more potential to earn one?

Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:But wouldn't it be closer to an autobid than the CUSA (and isn't it currently even without those teams)? Everyone seems to agree that if you have the opportunity to join a league with an autobid, you should do it (even though no autobids are guaranteed in the future). If that is the case, why wouldn't you want to join a league that has more potential to earn one?

Why does this dialogue remind me of this well-known movie scene?


Lloyd: The least you could do is level with me. What are my chances?
Mary: Not good.
Lloyd: You mean like one out of a hundred?
Mary: More like one out of a million.
Lloyd: So you're tellin' me there's a chance! YEAH!!! I hear ya!

I don't think at this point UTEP is interested in the MWC and viceversa. One big question mark the MWC has is its TV deal. CSTV and "the mtn" are hardly national TV...I don't see how it would help UTEP get the exposure we're getting in C-USA by moving to a conference that the media confuses with the WAC.

At one point I was for MWC membership....but their TV deal made me changed my mind. I hope UTEP keeps playing MWC/WAC teams in OOC....but that's it. UTEP is better off in C-USA.

Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:

UTEPDude Wrote:

MinerThreat Wrote:a 12 team MWC with BSU, FSU, & UTEP would be worthy of challenging for a BCS autobid.

NCAA Tournament Teams last year:

CUSA 2/12
WAC 2/9
MWC 2/9

Yes I know that Memphis went to the Elite 8, but CUSA as a basketball conference is not all that. The loser schools like ECU, USM, Tulane, and SMU need to step up.

MinerThreat...are you MaximumOrange?

Even if lets say..UTEP was to join the MWC with two other schools...guess what would happen..you guessed it..

MWC 2/12

Wow, talk about moving up

The MWC will not be recieving a BCS autobid..even if BSU, FSU, and UTEP were to join it..so there would be no point for us to join that conference. Reliving old WAC memories is not what UTEP is about anymore..its about moving forward. The MWC does not offer UTEP anything much better than C-USA does at the moment.

But wouldn't it be closer to an autobid than the CUSA (and isn't it currently even without those teams)? Everyone seems to agree that if you have the opportunity to join a league with an autobid, you should do it (even though no autobids are guaranteed in the future). If that is the case, why wouldn't you want to join a league that has more potential to earn one?

OK....for the sake of argument (it's the long and boring offseason)...

Let's say UTEP, Boise and Fresno join the MWC-9....then what?

1) How many bowl tie-ins would the MWC-12 get? Will CSTV/CBS give more money to the MWC for adding these 3 schools?

2) In what bowl would the MWC champ play in case there's no BCS autobid? Las Vegas? Poinsietta? MPC Computers? New Mexico Bowl?

3) How many NCAA Tourney bids would the MWC-12 get? Two? Three?UTEP is the only one with a strong hoops team. Fresno and Boise are not even close.

4) Baseball? Boise and UTEP don't have baseball teams. Fresno's a good baseball team but I don't see the MWC-12 getting no more than 2 NCAA bids.

5) Remember....the gang of five will want to be in the same division + Boise. I think it wouldn't be fair for UTEP, TCU and UNM to be in the same division with Fresno, SDSU and UNLV. A division with Texas and California schools just won't work. See the WAC-16.

At this point I'm sure Boise, Fresno and UTEP want to stay in their current conferences.....at least for the next four or five years.

1) How many bowl tie-ins would the MWC-12 get?

Probably 6

2) In what bowl would the MWC champ play in case there's no BCS autobid?

If there is no autobid why would UTEP go. I could see BSU and FSU going without an autobid, but not UTEP. CUSA is a lot better off than the WAC.

3) How many NCAA Tourney bids would the MWC-12 get? Two? Three?

Maybe 4, yes BSU and FSU suck at basketball, but their programs are better off than ECU, USM, and Tulane. They would make the bottom half of the MWC stronger, making the whole conference stronger.

4) Baseball?

Who cares? Baseball doesn't generate siginificant revenue. Some BCS schools don't even have baseball teams. Baseball is a non issue.

5) Remember....the gang of five will want to be in the same division + Boise. I think it wouldn't be fair for UTEP, TCU and UNM to be in the same division with Fresno, SDSU and UNLV. A division with Texas and California schools just won't work. See the WAC-16.

A division with Texas and Cali schools could work. It didn't work in the WAC16 because of the gang of 5 missed playing each other. That's why the MWC was formed. It wasn't that Wyoming had to travel to Dallas to play SMU, just that they would rather travel to SLC to play Utah. The WAC16 could have worked had the kept the Mountain (BYU, Utah, UNM, UTEP, SMU, Tulsa, TCU, Rice) and the Pacific (SDSU, UNLV, SJSU, Fresno, Wyoming, Colorado St, Air Force, Hawaii) the same every year instead of rotating quadrants.

MinerThreat Wrote:1) How many bowl tie-ins would the MWC-12 get?

Probably 6

2) In what bowl would the MWC champ play in case there's no BCS autobid?

If there is no autobid why would UTEP go. I could see BSU and FSU going without an autobid, but not UTEP. CUSA is a lot better off than the WAC.

3) How many NCAA Tourney bids would the MWC-12 get? Two? Three?

Maybe 4, yes BSU and FSU suck at basketball, but their programs are better off than ECU, USM, and Tulane. They would make the bottom half of the MWC stronger, making the whole conference stronger.

4) Baseball?

Who cares? Baseball doesn't generate siginificant revenue. Some BCS schools don't even have baseball teams. Baseball is a non issue.

5) Remember....the gang of five will want to be in the same division + Boise. I think it wouldn't be fair for UTEP, TCU and UNM to be in the same division with Fresno, SDSU and UNLV. A division with Texas and California schools just won't work. See the WAC-16.

A division with Texas and Cali schools could work. It didn't work in the WAC16 because of the gang of 5 missed playing each other. That's why the MWC was formed. It wasn't that Wyoming had to travel to Dallas to play SMU, just that they would rather travel to SLC to play Utah. The WAC16 could have worked had the kept the Mountain (BYU, Utah, UNM, UTEP, SMU, Tulsa, TCU, Rice) and the Pacific (SDSU, UNLV, SJSU, Fresno, Wyoming, Colorado St, Air Force, Hawaii) the same every year instead of rotating quadrants.

1) No way they get 6. MAYBE 5, and that's a stretch.

2) You didn't answer the question because the answer is that it doesn't matter because it will be a very minor bowl (aka, bush league).

3) Define "program". Why? Because outside of the Finney Error, Tulane was an excellent hoops program. In fact, when I started there, we were best known for our hoops.

4) If baseball is a non-issue, then why did the Big 10 (et al) push to move the season? Why do many schools, including some in CUSA, make money at it?

5) No, you're trying to convince yourself that water is dry at 35 degrees.

MinerThreat Wrote:1) How many bowl tie-ins would the MWC-12 get?

Probably 6

2) In what bowl would the MWC champ play in case there's no BCS autobid?

If there is no autobid why would UTEP go. I could see BSU and FSU going without an autobid, but not UTEP. CUSA is a lot better off than the WAC.

3) How many NCAA Tourney bids would the MWC-12 get? Two? Three?

Maybe 4, yes BSU and FSU suck at basketball, but their programs are better off than ECU, USM, and Tulane. They would make the bottom half of the MWC stronger, making the whole conference stronger.

4) Baseball?

Who cares? Baseball doesn't generate siginificant revenue. Some BCS schools don't even have baseball teams. Baseball is a non issue.

5) Remember....the gang of five will want to be in the same division + Boise. I think it wouldn't be fair for UTEP, TCU and UNM to be in the same division with Fresno, SDSU and UNLV. A division with Texas and California schools just won't work. See the WAC-16.

A division with Texas and Cali schools could work. It didn't work in the WAC16 because of the gang of 5 missed playing each other. That's why the MWC was formed. It wasn't that Wyoming had to travel to Dallas to play SMU, just that they would rather travel to SLC to play Utah. The WAC16 could have worked had the kept the Mountain (BYU, Utah, UNM, UTEP, SMU, Tulsa, TCU, Rice) and the Pacific (SDSU, UNLV, SJSU, Fresno, Wyoming, Colorado St, Air Force, Hawaii) the same every year instead of rotating quadrants.

Keep dreaming dude. The moutain waste conference offers not a damn thing for vast majority of miner fans. It's only you and two or three other so called miner followers that are promoting this delusional agenda.

HiddenDragon Wrote:The MWC can't steal or take anything from anyone. Simple as that.

Except for the team you guys called the flagship until Houston became the decrepid row-boat leading the CUSA charge.

UTEPDallas Wrote:OK....for the sake of argument (it's the long and boring offseason)...

Let's say UTEP, Boise and Fresno join the MWC-9....then what?

All good "what if" questions and obviously the MWC (and UTEP, Boise, Fresno) would have to answer those questions. But I think even if some are maybe or not sure, there is reason that a MWC-12 might make sense in the big picture of creating a conference that can bridge the gap between the BCS and non-BCS- even if short term that gap isn't traversed right away, positioning long term is important. To answer the questions posed:

Quote:1) How many bowl tie-ins would the MWC-12 get?

Who knows, but it would definitely get Boise and my guess is either the Sun, Emerald or the Insight with the next round of changes. My guess is 6 +/- BCS autobid if it comes.

Quote:Will CSTV/CBS give more money to the MWC for adding these 3 schools?

It would get renegotiated and how much it would go up would depend on how the conference is performing.

Quote:2) In what bowl would the MWC champ play in case there's no BCS autobid? Las Vegas? Poinsietta? MPC Computers? New Mexico Bowl?

If the Sun can't be secured, I would guess is the Insight or Las Vegas.

Quote:3) How many NCAA Tourney bids would the MWC-12 get? Two? Three?UTEP is the only one with a strong hoops team. Fresno and Boise are not even close.

I would guess the MWC-12 to be a three bid league on average. You guys act like the MWC is a wasteland for basketball, but even in a down year we were ranked well ahead of the CUSA last year ( I think we were 8th and the CUSA was like 15th) and the MWC has better overall attendance. Several teams have some nice basketball tradition to build off of (Utah, UNLV, UNM, BYU). Fresno has a decent hoops tradition, too. In fact I think every MWC team has made the NCAAs at least once in the last eight years.

Quote:4) Baseball? Boise and UTEP don't have baseball teams. Fresno's a good baseball team but I don't see the MWC-12 getting no more than 2 NCAA bids.

2 bids sounds iabout right, but its an only 8 team league, and somehow I think baseball will have as much impact on expansion as Women's Basketball (which the MWC is much stronger in)- as in none.

Quote:5) Remember....the gang of five will want to be in the same division + Boise. I think it wouldn't be fair for UTEP, TCU and UNM to be in the same division with Fresno, SDSU and UNLV. A division with Texas and California schools just won't work. See the WAC-16.

Agree, but the gang of five is really an antiquated concept- those presidents are long gone and the league has a new vision. If expansion does occur, it will be with BCS implications in mind and those desires will by necessity have to take a back seat. I think a league where the divisions will be drawn along the continental divide makes the most sense.

Quote:At this point I'm sure Boise, Fresno and UTEP want to stay in their current conferences.....at least for the next four or five years.

Don't disagree here- although in two years with the first autobid determinations there could be some movement. More likely it won't be until 2010 or so, and as I said earlier, only if there is more unrest elsewhere in the college football landscape. I freely admit this is conjecture on my part, but while I used to be against MWC expansion, I think a 12 team MWC makes a lot of sense for all parties. We'll see.

Sophandros Wrote:1) No way they get 6. MAYBE 5, and that's a stretch.

Why is 6 a stretch? We have 4 right now, 5 guaranteed with Boise, and the Sun, Insight or Emerald are all bowls that are reasonable possibilities for a MWC-12

Quote:2) You didn't answer the question because the answer is that it doesn't matter because it will be a very minor bowl (aka, bush league).

Aren't all non-BCS games realy bush league? Conferences are realizing close regional bowls are the way to go. Remember, for UTEP, they have the FW Bowl as the closest bowl in the CUSA. Depending on which bowls the MWC can secure, the Sun, the Albuquerque, the Insight, the Poinsettia and the Las Vegas are all closer than any other CUSA bowls.

Quote:4) If baseball is a non-issue, then why did the Big 10 (et al) push to move the season? Why do many schools, including some in CUSA, make money at it?

I think it is accurate that baseball is a non-issue when it comes to expansion.

Quote:5) No, you're trying to convince yourself that water is dry at 35 degrees.

Sorry, just wanted to keep using quotes. ;-)

Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:But wouldn't it be closer to an autobid than the CUSA (and isn't it currently even without those teams)? Everyone seems to agree that if you have the opportunity to join a league with an autobid, you should do it (even though no autobids are guaranteed in the future). If that is the case, why wouldn't you want to join a league that has more potential to earn one?

No one is closer to anything Frog because there is no such thing as an autobid dude.

The BCS hasn't said anything about issuing an autobid and there is no reason why to expect this to happen. Everything you saying is just hypotheical.

The best thing for the MWC and CUSA to do is to get better as a conference. CUSA Football was pretty good last year. The MWC not so good. Neither one was impressive in basketball but I digress.

I'll say it again, the MWC isn't doing anything that they haven't done in the past (except get a team in the BCS Bowl Series). Other than the MWC has 3 bowl games and an unproven TV package deal what does the MWC has to offer to UTEP, Boise and Frenso to make them leave their respective conferences? Geography I guess. But just having 3 bowls games and a unproven TV package isn't going to cut it.