(07-17-2014 11:04 AM)DragonLair Wrote:  

(07-16-2014 03:15 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-16-2014 02:18 PM)DragonLair Wrote:  

(07-16-2014 02:07 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Thermopylae

A small force of Greeks held off a Persian army that outnumbered them better than 100-1. This led to the rise of the Greek society which our own society is modeled upon, as is most of the rest of the modern world.

I knew this would come up. I didn't want to say it but yes it was a significant battle but it has gotten way blown out of proportion.

Yes there was only 300 Spartan warriors but each of those spartan warriors had their squires and assistants who would help out during the battle by being an auxiliary force. On top of that there were a significant number of Thebans, Athenians and many other Greek city-states represented.

Still they were outnumbered but not to the extent that is widely guessed.

The Greeks were vastly outnumbered. There were a few thousand Greeks (4000-7000, depending) against a Persian army numbering anywhere between 100,000-200,000, depending on which historian does the counting.

That's not a small thing, when you can send a large number of men after each single Greek. And this was an old style battle, when the fighting was done up close and personal. The fact that you dismiss it shows you really don't understand the realities of this kind of war.

In warfare there are things called force multipliers that can give a smaller force a advantage due to a number of factors.

And that's exactly why they chose the hot gates as a defensive point. It makes the numerical advantage worthless because you could only fit so many people at one time.

Yes the persian had more men to throw in the fire but the greeks were better trained, better equiped and were fighting for there homeland.

the persian army was mostly conscripts of conquered people. they were periculaly skilled the the type of combat that they used against the greeks. The persian army was mostly a archer and cavaly army. they used cavalry to there advantage when fighting on the plains in asia minor. the upclose and personal fitghing is what the greeks specialized in. that and with bronze/heavy oak sheilds, bronze cuirass(sometimes laminate armor) they were basically the tanks of the ancient period.

One aspect you've failed to take into account is the Greek navy's role in this. They were outnumbered by the Persian navy as well. But the man in charge of the Greek navy also chose the perfect spot to defend against the Persians, which kept them from landing troops behind the ground troops at Thermopylae. That would have rendered Greek ground forces impotent. It's hard enough to fight when outnumbered, without having to do so on 2 fronts. The Greeks at Thermopylae had superior fighters, a superior navy, superior commanders, both on land and sea, and rendered a vastly superior number of opposition forces impotent in the battle. And they did this against all odds to the contrary.

I think you shortchange them, and disregard the evidence of an overwhelming disadvantage turned into an advantage for the Greeks. This led to the rise of our modern civilization, which would not have been possible without the commitment of Greeks, especially the Spartans, who fought to the death of every one of their men.