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http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20121...ck_check=1



includes emails and documentation . Interesting.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
UC emails reveal ACC dilemma
Behind-the-scenes look at school's stymied quest to leave Big East
1:50 AM, Dec 10, 2012 |

The latest blizzard of universities jumping from one conference to another spurred a flurry of email among University of Cincinnati officials last month. UC leaders believed the school could get into the Atlantic Coast Conference with the Big 12 as a secondary option, the emails show.

The ACC likely remains UC’s top option, even after the conference chose Louisville as its 14th member, bypassing UC. UC hopes to leave the declining Big East Conference, where both UC and Louisville compete now.

“Big 10 and ACC moves ... could cause Big 12 perhaps to rethink staying at 10 schools,” UC Athletic Director Whit Babcock emailed to President Santa Ono on Nov. 18, before the ACC announced its decision. “We need to focus on both ACC (primarily) but also Big 12.”

The email and other documents, obtained by The Enquirer through an Ohio Public Records Act request, also show that UC tried to enlist Ohio State University football coach Urban Meyer, whose sister works at UC. Urban used to coach at Notre Dame, which has joined the ACC for sports other than football.

But Meyer eventually backed away from that request.

“While he is comfortable telling folks he cares deeply for UC and that he knows we are a great school, with great people and great leadership, he thinks his calls would feel contrived and that they would not have an impact,” wrote Gigi Escoe, a vice provost at UC and Meyer’s sister, to Babcock Nov. 27.

The latest wave in the realignment of big-time college sports came at an especially vulnerable time at UC, which was trying to dissuade football coach Butch Jones from taking potentially more lucrative offers. Jones last week took himself out of the running for the Colorado job, only to jump ship the next day for University of Tennessee. Then UC hired Tommy Tuberville from Texas Tech of the Big 12.

Both the Big 12 and ACC have said they are done with adding new teams for now, but few believe that the shifting of the landscape of big-time college sports is complete.

“This is going to be a wild ride,” Babcock warned in the Nov. 18 email to Ono. “Can be bumpy and all-consuming. We will navigate it together.”

UC had limited contact with the ACC earlier this fall, but the lobbying kicked into high gear a few days before Thanksgiving, when Rutgers and Maryland shocked college presidents around the country by joining the Big Ten conference.

That left the ACC needing to add either one or three members, with Big East members UC, Louisville and Connecticut prime candidates.

Ono and Babcock led the campaign during Thanksgiving week to join the ACC.

The campaign included Ono’s phone calls and letters to every ACC president, arguing that UC fits into the ACC in academics, research funding and financial backing.

There also were other contacts. For example, UC’s faculty athletics representative, Fritz Russ, reached out to counterparts at ACC schools.

Ono sent every ACC president a brochure touting the “upward trajectory of the University of Cincinnati’s athletic and academic programs” and listing how UC would rank in the ACC in enrollment, endowments, research funding and other measures. The listing underscored how UC would be a good fit in the conference.

Ono’s office tried to arrange visits for ACC presidents, and consulted with a Washington, D.C., lobbying firm on how to approach those leaders. But the visits did not happen.

The 26-page brochure sent by Ono to the ACC schools did not list UC’s athletic budget of about $27.5 million, which pales in comparison to the more than $70 million that Louisville spends on sports every year.

UC track coach Bill Schnier also supported the ACC campaign in an email to Babcock.

“Whether they simply replace Maryland or expand, I believe our foot is in the door for the ACC,” Schnier wrote Nov. 21. “I would encourage us to maximize our situation.”

(12-10-2012 08:57 AM)Bearcat2012 Wrote:  Includes emails and documentation . Interesting.

“Whether they simply replace Maryland or expand, I believe our foot is in the door for the ACC,” Schnier wrote Nov. 21. “I would encourage us to maximize our situation.”

Well, at least you know your administrators were/are trying their best. Let's face it: in terms of overall brand appeal, if a given expansion opportunity comes down to UofL, Cincy,a nd Uconn, Cincy is last on that list so has the hardest argument to make.

This coincides with what my source was talking about. UC wants to leave the nBE. See my other thread for more info.

are you serious miko? Your source? Any one with half a brain could tell you that.

It is great to trying! Next train out lets go!

(12-10-2012 09:14 AM)stever20 Wrote:  are you serious miko? Your source? Any one with half a brain could tell you that.

Yes, this talk of "sources" when it comes to Big East teams accepting bids to Power leagues is silly, as it is obvious that any Big East team would leave for any Power 5 conference, even the ACC, at the drop of a hat.

If the issue is something like "would Virginia leave the ACC for the B1G?", that is a question about which there is some doubt, so quoting "sources" is valuable. But Big East teams?

If they can't stomach the BE so much then grow a set of balls and get out now. Go Indy and make a statement. Stop leeching off the BE until you find a better host.

Everything hinges on if Maryland is forced to pay the $50 million exit fee from the ACC. If they do then most likely the ACC will not lose any more members. Then the Big 12 will start getting some schools...maybe Cincy, BYU, Boise, etc.

Every time I see clamoring to take UMD's spot in the ACC, I once again question the value of our move to the B1G...

(12-10-2012 09:29 AM)JKMPirate78 Wrote:  Everything hinges on if Maryland is forced to pay the $50 million exit fee from the ACC. If they do then most likely the ACC will not lose any more members. Then the Big 12 will start getting some schools...maybe Cincy, BYU, Boise, etc.

FSU could still go, especially to the B1G. Of course, I'm half convinced that the B1G will grab FSU and Texas, just letting the Big 12 GOR and Longhorn Network contracts run their durations with UT getting a half-share to start. (With Florida and Texas in the footprint, a half-share of the Big Ten comes pretty close to the Big XII payout.)

Then Delany points and laughs at all the prophets who foretold FOUR superconferences.

(12-10-2012 09:52 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  FSU could still go, especially to the B1G. Of course, I'm half convinced that the B1G will grab FSU and Texas, just letting the Big 12 GOR and Longhorn Network contracts run their durations with UT getting a half-share to start. (With Florida and Texas in the footprint, a half-share of the Big Ten comes pretty close to the Big XII payout.)

Then Delany points and laughs at all the prophets who foretold FOUR superconferences.

I'm tempted to post some sarcastic statement, but I will simply state that if Texas administrators attempted to move the Longhorns to the Big 10 --especially at a half share -- there would be revolts of a massive scale.

(12-10-2012 09:37 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  Every time I see clamoring to take UMD's spot in the ACC, I once again question the value of our move to the B1G...

And the other ACC schools are attempting to leave

Did you notice no SEC, B12, or B1G schools are clamoring to get in the ACC? These schools that are clamoring are doing so because they have no other option.

(12-10-2012 10:05 AM)PGEMF Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 09:37 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  Every time I see clamoring to take UMD's spot in the ACC, I once again question the value of our move to the B1G...

And the other ACC schools are attempting to leave

Did you notice no SEC, B12, or B1G schools are clamoring to get in the ACC? These schools that are clamoring are doing so because they have no other option.

Plus Maryland just went from an unstable ACC to a completely secure Big 10. It doesn't get much better than that. Any regret felt in a move to the Big 10 is severely misplaced. Maryland could easily have found themselves stuck in a depleted ACC after UVA, UNC, FSU, Va. Tech, Clemson and Duke/Georgia Tech have left for secure conferences.

N.C. State, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh would be screwed if the ACC implodes. N.C. State would be the third choice here behind UNC and Duke in the expansion shuffle.


North Carolina and Virginia to the SEC
Virginia Tech and Duke to the Big Ten
Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech and Clemson to the Big 12

(12-10-2012 09:37 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  Every time I see clamoring to take UMD's spot in the ACC, I once again question the value of our move to the B1G...

Frankly, if the Big 10 actually had a standing invite to Maryland on the table, I'm surprised it took them this long to accept. The Big 10 has been a much more attractive conference for a decade. The only reason for delay would have been if MD was hoping to one day lure Penn State into the ACC.

Athletic revenue is peanuts compared to what most of these schools make elsewhere. Maryland's athletic department was in dire straits, but most of the rest of the ACC is very healthy financially. As long as there's no fear of getting left behind competitively, it should and does take a team a lot to leave a conference like the ACC for just a couple million dollars more per year somewhere else.
Virginia Tech's AD put it best:
"We are more concerned of being in a home where we believe it's the right match for our academic institution as well as the athletic aspect of our institution and where it makes sense for us to be," Weaver tells Mark Berman of The Roanoke Times. "When you analyze some of the moves that have been made, some people have a lot of travel to do.
"I don't think you make the decision based on money alone. I think you've got to ascertain, 'Do you have enough funding? Are you able to continue as you are without falling backwards?' I think it's those type of approaches that have to be reviewed, as opposed to saying, 'Oh, they're getting $6 million more a year than we are, we need to go there.' Because team travel can eat up some of that money really quickly."
Weaver is also skeptical that there will be significant conference expansion in the future. "I don't think anybody really knows," Weaver said. "I feel like we are comfortable in 14 plus Notre Dame [which will not be a full-time football member] in our league. I've been told that the SEC is comfortable with their 14. I've been told that the Big Ten is comfortable with their 14, but I don't know that for a fact."

(12-10-2012 10:21 AM)JKMPirate78 Wrote:  N.C. State, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh would be screwed if the ACC implodes. N.C. State would be the third choice here behind UNC and Duke in the expansion shuffle.


North Carolina and Virginia to the SEC
Virginia Tech and Duke to the Big Ten
Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech and Clemson to the Big 12

Actually the BE would be screwed again as the ACC would bring in UConn, UC, Memphis, USF, UCF, Houston and still be way ahead of the game.

(12-10-2012 08:57 AM)Bearcat2012 Wrote:  The 26-page brochure sent by Ono to the ACC schools did not list UC’s athletic budget of about $27.5 million, which pales in comparison to the more than $70 million that Louisville spends on sports every year.

Ultimately, that's a figure that's going to be REALLY tough for Cincinnati to overcome no matter how much they try to sell the other aspects of the school. That budget is more in line with non-AQ schools, whereas UConn's athletic budget is at least in the range for power conference schools.

(12-10-2012 10:46 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 10:21 AM)JKMPirate78 Wrote:  N.C. State, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh would be screwed if the ACC implodes. N.C. State would be the third choice here behind UNC and Duke in the expansion shuffle.


North Carolina and Virginia to the SEC
Virginia Tech and Duke to the Big Ten
Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech and Clemson to the Big 12

Actually the BE would be screwed again as the ACC would bring in UConn, UC, Memphis, USF, UCF, Houston and still be way ahead of the game.

The ACC would probably cease to exist. UNC basically runs that league a la Texas. No Duke & UNC...no ACC. That is why Texas flirting with the Pac 12 last year was so dangerous for the other schools.

(12-10-2012 10:12 AM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 10:05 AM)PGEMF Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 09:37 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  Every time I see clamoring to take UMD's spot in the ACC, I once again question the value of our move to the B1G...

And the other ACC schools are attempting to leave

Did you notice no SEC, B12, or B1G schools are clamoring to get in the ACC? These schools that are clamoring are doing so because they have no other option.

Plus Maryland just went from an unstable ACC to a completely secure Big 10. It doesn't get much better than that. Any regret felt in a move to the Big 10 is severely misplaced. Maryland could easily have found themselves stuck in a depleted ACC after UVA, UNC, FSU, Va. Tech, Clemson and Duke/Georgia Tech have left for secure conferences.

I think UMD leaving is what made the ACC feel insecure. Had we not left, or actually publicly rejected the B1G, the ACC would be very secure.

I still doubt any more ACC schools are leaving any time soon.