(07-12-2012 01:42 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Miami's lack of fan support a major problem. Hard to maintain success if you don't have fan support.

So Ohio averaged 2 or 3 thousand more in attendance last season?
You don't have to worry about Miami maintaining success, but thanks for the concern.. Miami has maintained success since day 1 of the MAC. Overall all winning record over every team in the MAC and most MAC titles with our most recent one season ago. Our fans get bored easy (been there, done that) where as Ohio fans are all giddy over the last 5 years because the long historical doormats of the MAC have finally hired a good coach who hasn't left yet and strung together a few winning seasons and are coming out in droves in hopes to see what they haven't achieved in 50 years (winning a title). Ohio is on the longest title draught in the MAC and will get their hopes crushed when both Bowling Green and Miami beat them this year. But yes, I'd be excited if I was a Bobcat fan too. With that said, I'll root for the Bobcats vs Penn State and everybody else out of conference.

When Michigan went through their recent dry spell, did you think they would not come roaring back in a matter of time?

(07-12-2012 07:17 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 01:42 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Miami's lack of fan support a major problem. Hard to maintain success if you don't have fan support.

So Ohio averaged 2 or 3 thousand more in attendance last season?
You don't have to worry about Miami maintaining success, but thanks for the concern.. Miami has maintained success since day 1 of the MAC. Overall all winning record over every team in the MAC and most MAC titles with our most recent one season ago. Our fans get bored easy (been there, done that) where as Ohio fans are all giddy over the last 5 years because the long historical doormats of the MAC have finally hired a good coach who hasn't left yet and strung together a few winning seasons and are coming out in droves in hopes to see what they haven't achieved in 50 years (winning a title). Ohio is on the longest title draught in the MAC and will get their hopes crushed when both Bowling Green and Miami beat them this year. But yes, I'd be excited if I was a Bobcat fan too. With that said, I'll root for the Bobcats vs Penn State and everybody else out of conference.

When Michigan went through their recent dry spell, did you think they would not come roaring back in a matter of time?

don't bother. i'm certainly not going to root for Miami in any of its non-conferences games.

MAC fans come out when their teams win. They stop coming out when their teams lose. Some have marginally better baseline support, but no MAC teams are immune from the frontrunners' syndrome and Big Ten fan drain. It's proven almost impossible for any MAC program to sustain success in the major two sports because of this. KSU's basketball run from 1999 on (and I would say it is now over) is a very rare occurrence and likely not to be equalled, certainly not in football. If Miami starts winning, the fans will come back. If they lose, they won't. If Ohio starts losing, the fans will greatly diminish. If they win, they will stay. Fans don't make the program successful; they just reflect the success.

BobCat Backer wrote: don't bother. i'm certainly not going to root for Miami in any of its non-conferences games.


Well, that's disappointing.

As much as I like to disparage the Kittens, I root for all MAC teams OOC as those wins benefit everyone in the conference, from a status and national recognition perspective (not to mention helping to gain top 25 status for our top teams), as well as boosting the conference's SOS which arguably is a bigger factor in hoops.

And Axeme is right......MAC teams all have "soft" fan support and attendance tends to mirror on the field current and recent performance. At Miami we haven't "drawn flies" the last few years, but during Big Ben's last year in 2003 we averged 25K per game in home attendance.

(07-12-2012 10:16 AM)axeme Wrote:  MAC fans come out when their teams win. They stop coming out when their teams lose. Some have marginally better baseline support, but no MAC teams are immune from the frontrunners' syndrome and Big Ten fan drain. It's proven almost impossible for any MAC program to sustain success in the major two sports because of this. KSU's basketball run from 1999 on (and I would say it is now over) is a very rare occurrence and likely not to be equalled, certainly not in football. If Miami starts winning, the fans will come back. If they lose, they won't. If Ohio starts losing, the fans will greatly diminish. If they win, they will stay. Fans don't make the program successful; they just reflect the success.

All very true and the reality of all MAC fans. Success in the MAC almost guarantees tougher times are ahead. As soon as a team does well, the Big Ten steals their coach and the program falls back a few steps. Ball State/Brady Hoke and Buffalo/Turner Gill are good examples. Its a feedback loop that will always be until the MAC can compete financially which, unfortunately, the BCS crowd will make sure never happens.

How many times did CMU have what was considered the top, or one of the top, recruiting classes during their run with Lefevour?

NIU seems to continually be ranked in the middle or near the bottom in recruiting rankings in the conference yet continues to win.

Clearly recruiting rankings is not a good prediction for the success of most non-AQ teams.

(07-12-2012 04:22 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  How many times did CMU have what was considered the top, or one of the top, recruiting classes during their run with Lefevour?

NIU seems to continually be ranked in the middle or near the bottom in recruiting rankings in the conference yet continues to win.

Clearly recruiting rankings is not a good prediction for the success of most non-AQ teams.

I think there just isn't enough separation in the recruiting for MAC teams. If you were comparing, say, Ohio State vs. Indiana (or a MAC team) in football, you'd see a noticeable difference and predictions would probably mean something. Not so with the MAC. It does seem odd though that the recruiting rankings that seem to get posted on this board almost always have us on the bottom or, at best, in the middle of the MAC.

(07-12-2012 09:25 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 07:17 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 01:42 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Miami's lack of fan support a major problem. Hard to maintain success if you don't have fan support.

So Ohio averaged 2 or 3 thousand more in attendance last season?
You don't have to worry about Miami maintaining success, but thanks for the concern.. Miami has maintained success since day 1 of the MAC. Overall all winning record over every team in the MAC and most MAC titles with our most recent one season ago. Our fans get bored easy (been there, done that) where as Ohio fans are all giddy over the last 5 years because the long historical doormats of the MAC have finally hired a good coach who hasn't left yet and strung together a few winning seasons and are coming out in droves in hopes to see what they haven't achieved in 50 years (winning a title). Ohio is on the longest title draught in the MAC and will get their hopes crushed when both Bowling Green and Miami beat them this year. But yes, I'd be excited if I was a Bobcat fan too. With that said, I'll root for the Bobcats vs Penn State and everybody else out of conference.

When Michigan went through their recent dry spell, did you think they would not come roaring back in a matter of time?

don't bother. i'm certainly not going to root for Miami in any of its non-conferences games.

This is more of a you problem than anything else.

(07-12-2012 10:54 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 10:16 AM)axeme Wrote:  MAC fans come out when their teams win. They stop coming out when their teams lose. Some have marginally better baseline support, but no MAC teams are immune from the frontrunners' syndrome and Big Ten fan drain. It's proven almost impossible for any MAC program to sustain success in the major two sports because of this. KSU's basketball run from 1999 on (and I would say it is now over) is a very rare occurrence and likely not to be equalled, certainly not in football. If Miami starts winning, the fans will come back. If they lose, they won't. If Ohio starts losing, the fans will greatly diminish. If they win, they will stay. Fans don't make the program successful; they just reflect the success.

All very true and the reality of all MAC fans. Success in the MAC almost guarantees tougher times are ahead. As soon as a team does well, the Big Ten steals their coach and the program falls back a few steps. Ball State/Brady Hoke and Buffalo/Turner Gill are good examples. Its a feedback loop that will always be until the MAC can compete financially which, unfortunately, the BCS crowd will make sure never happens.

It sadly will take more than just money though money would help of course. It is also a prestige thing as even if we could equal the money of say Ohio State Kent would lose its coach to them just because it is the big job in the state of Ohio (and one of the better ones in the country and I HATE saying that). There are a few exceptions but generally that is true.

(07-12-2012 10:39 PM)DICK Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 09:25 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 07:17 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 01:42 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Miami's lack of fan support a major problem. Hard to maintain success if you don't have fan support.

So Ohio averaged 2 or 3 thousand more in attendance last season?
You don't have to worry about Miami maintaining success, but thanks for the concern.. Miami has maintained success since day 1 of the MAC. Overall all winning record over every team in the MAC and most MAC titles with our most recent one season ago. Our fans get bored easy (been there, done that) where as Ohio fans are all giddy over the last 5 years because the long historical doormats of the MAC have finally hired a good coach who hasn't left yet and strung together a few winning seasons and are coming out in droves in hopes to see what they haven't achieved in 50 years (winning a title). Ohio is on the longest title draught in the MAC and will get their hopes crushed when both Bowling Green and Miami beat them this year. But yes, I'd be excited if I was a Bobcat fan too. With that said, I'll root for the Bobcats vs Penn State and everybody else out of conference.

When Michigan went through their recent dry spell, did you think they would not come roaring back in a matter of time?

don't bother. i'm certainly not going to root for Miami in any of its non-conferences games.

This is more of a you problem than anything else.

i guess we just have different perspectives as i don't see it as a problem at all.