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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #31
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 04:35 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 03:16 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  NCAA Division 1 conference minimums:

FBS: 8 all-sports members that play 6 men's sports (including football and basketball) and 8 women's sports (including basketball and 2 other team sports)

FCS: 7 members that play 6 men's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and either football or 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools]) and 6 women's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools])

The NCAA also allows a 2-year grace period for a conference to return to full membership, should a school withdraw to force non-compliance.

But there's a catch, the NCAA requires all D1 teams to offer 16 sports, but conferences only have to offer competition in 14 (FBS) or 12 (FCS), hence the reason schools play in more than one conference in some instances.

That description of "FCS" must be for a "non-FBS all-sports conference", not a FCS football conference. Off the top of my head I can name 5 FCS football conferences that wouldn't fulfill that requirement if 7 members were required to play most sports together. All but 1 of the 5 I'm thinking of have AQs to the playoffs, which means that the NCAA recognizes them as official FCS conferences.

Also, non-FBS Division I members are only required to sponsor 14 sports total, whether inside or outside of their conference. FBS requires 16, for no reason other than to inflate expenses.

EDITED TO ADD: Here are the FCS conferences I'm thinking of:

CAA: 6 all-sports, 5 football-only (5/4 after GSU and URI leave)
MVC: 5 all-sports, 4 football-only
Big South: 6 all-sports, 1 football-only
Patriot: 5 all-sports, 2 football-only
Pioneer: 10 football-only

The Pioneer is the one without an AQ, but AFAIK they are eligible for one and just didn't apply because they're non-scholarship and would get crushed.
You're right FCS should read non-FBS, but the intent is the same. And the non-FBS D1 requirement is 14 sports for a school, not 16. I read that wrong.

I was just reading from the NCAA bylaws for Division 1 (this is superceded for FBS conferences):

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men’s and women’s basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men’s sports, one of which shall be men’s basketball. In addition to men’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men’s team sports. A
minimum of seven members shall sponsor men’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men’s team sports; and
© The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women’s sports, one of which shall be women’s basketball. In addition to women’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women’s team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women’s team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).


Nowhere does it say that the non-FBS conference must be all-sports, just that it include at least 7 teams for both men's and women's basketball with 6 of those 7 playing at least 5 other men's sports (incl. football or 2 other team sports) and 5 other women's sports (2 team sports). It does not specify that any of those other sports must be the same 5.

I'm not going to waste my time with each of those, but the CAA has 12 for men's basketball, of which 8 play at least 6 other men's sports in conference.

The Pioneer League has never been recognized by the NCAA because it is only a football-only conference. The Great West has also never been recognized because of other membership issues.
04-10-2012 09:03 PM
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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Post: #32
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 09:03 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 04:35 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 03:16 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  NCAA Division 1 conference minimums:

FBS: 8 all-sports members that play 6 men's sports (including football and basketball) and 8 women's sports (including basketball and 2 other team sports)

FCS: 7 members that play 6 men's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and either football or 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools]) and 6 women's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools])

The NCAA also allows a 2-year grace period for a conference to return to full membership, should a school withdraw to force non-compliance.

But there's a catch, the NCAA requires all D1 teams to offer 16 sports, but conferences only have to offer competition in 14 (FBS) or 12 (FCS), hence the reason schools play in more than one conference in some instances.

That description of "FCS" must be for a "non-FBS all-sports conference", not a FCS football conference. Off the top of my head I can name 5 FCS football conferences that wouldn't fulfill that requirement if 7 members were required to play most sports together. All but 1 of the 5 I'm thinking of have AQs to the playoffs, which means that the NCAA recognizes them as official FCS conferences.

Also, non-FBS Division I members are only required to sponsor 14 sports total, whether inside or outside of their conference. FBS requires 16, for no reason other than to inflate expenses.

EDITED TO ADD: Here are the FCS conferences I'm thinking of:

CAA: 6 all-sports, 5 football-only (5/4 after GSU and URI leave)
MVC: 5 all-sports, 4 football-only
Big South: 6 all-sports, 1 football-only
Patriot: 5 all-sports, 2 football-only
Pioneer: 10 football-only

The Pioneer is the one without an AQ, but AFAIK they are eligible for one and just didn't apply because they're non-scholarship and would get crushed.
You're right FCS should read non-FBS, but the intent is the same. And the non-FBS D1 requirement is 14 sports for a school, not 16. I read that wrong.

I was just reading from the NCAA bylaws for Division 1 (this is superceded for FBS conferences):

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men’s and women’s basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men’s sports, one of which shall be men’s basketball. In addition to men’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men’s team sports. A
minimum of seven members shall sponsor men’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men’s team sports; and
© The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women’s sports, one of which shall be women’s basketball. In addition to women’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women’s team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women’s team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).


Nowhere does it say that the non-FBS conference must be all-sports, just that it include at least 7 teams for both men's and women's basketball with 6 of those 7 playing at least 5 other men's sports (incl. football or 2 other team sports) and 5 other women's sports (2 team sports). It does not specify that any of those other sports must be the same 5.

I'm not going to waste my time with each of those, but the CAA has 12 for men's basketball, of which 8 play at least 6 other men's sports in conference.

The Pioneer League has never been recognized by the NCAA because it is only a football-only conference. The Great West has also never been recognized because of other membership issues.

I didn't want to tell you about the 14 vs 16 for fear we'd go on about it for 5 pages and/or maybe the rule changed again.04-cheers
04-10-2012 09:37 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #33
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 09:37 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 09:03 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 04:35 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 03:16 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  NCAA Division 1 conference minimums:

FBS: 8 all-sports members that play 6 men's sports (including football and basketball) and 8 women's sports (including basketball and 2 other team sports)

FCS: 7 members that play 6 men's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and either football or 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools]) and 6 women's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools])

The NCAA also allows a 2-year grace period for a conference to return to full membership, should a school withdraw to force non-compliance.

But there's a catch, the NCAA requires all D1 teams to offer 16 sports, but conferences only have to offer competition in 14 (FBS) or 12 (FCS), hence the reason schools play in more than one conference in some instances.

That description of "FCS" must be for a "non-FBS all-sports conference", not a FCS football conference. Off the top of my head I can name 5 FCS football conferences that wouldn't fulfill that requirement if 7 members were required to play most sports together. All but 1 of the 5 I'm thinking of have AQs to the playoffs, which means that the NCAA recognizes them as official FCS conferences.

Also, non-FBS Division I members are only required to sponsor 14 sports total, whether inside or outside of their conference. FBS requires 16, for no reason other than to inflate expenses.

EDITED TO ADD: Here are the FCS conferences I'm thinking of:

CAA: 6 all-sports, 5 football-only (5/4 after GSU and URI leave)
MVC: 5 all-sports, 4 football-only
Big South: 6 all-sports, 1 football-only
Patriot: 5 all-sports, 2 football-only
Pioneer: 10 football-only

The Pioneer is the one without an AQ, but AFAIK they are eligible for one and just didn't apply because they're non-scholarship and would get crushed.
You're right FCS should read non-FBS, but the intent is the same. And the non-FBS D1 requirement is 14 sports for a school, not 16. I read that wrong.

I was just reading from the NCAA bylaws for Division 1 (this is superceded for FBS conferences):

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men’s and women’s basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men’s sports, one of which shall be men’s basketball. In addition to men’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men’s team sports. A
minimum of seven members shall sponsor men’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men’s team sports; and
© The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women’s sports, one of which shall be women’s basketball. In addition to women’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women’s team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women’s team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).


Nowhere does it say that the non-FBS conference must be all-sports, just that it include at least 7 teams for both men's and women's basketball with 6 of those 7 playing at least 5 other men's sports (incl. football or 2 other team sports) and 5 other women's sports (2 team sports). It does not specify that any of those other sports must be the same 5.

I'm not going to waste my time with each of those, but the CAA has 12 for men's basketball, of which 8 play at least 6 other men's sports in conference.

The Pioneer League has never been recognized by the NCAA because it is only a football-only conference. The Great West has also never been recognized because of other membership issues.

I didn't want to tell you about the 14 vs 16 for fear we'd go on about it for 5 pages and/or maybe the rule changed again.04-cheers
Naw dude, we're cool. We just got our wires crossed that night.
04-10-2012 09:40 PM
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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Post: #34
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 09:40 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 09:37 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 09:03 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 04:35 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 03:16 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  NCAA Division 1 conference minimums:

FBS: 8 all-sports members that play 6 men's sports (including football and basketball) and 8 women's sports (including basketball and 2 other team sports)

FCS: 7 members that play 6 men's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and either football or 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools]) and 6 women's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools])

The NCAA also allows a 2-year grace period for a conference to return to full membership, should a school withdraw to force non-compliance.

But there's a catch, the NCAA requires all D1 teams to offer 16 sports, but conferences only have to offer competition in 14 (FBS) or 12 (FCS), hence the reason schools play in more than one conference in some instances.

That description of "FCS" must be for a "non-FBS all-sports conference", not a FCS football conference. Off the top of my head I can name 5 FCS football conferences that wouldn't fulfill that requirement if 7 members were required to play most sports together. All but 1 of the 5 I'm thinking of have AQs to the playoffs, which means that the NCAA recognizes them as official FCS conferences.

Also, non-FBS Division I members are only required to sponsor 14 sports total, whether inside or outside of their conference. FBS requires 16, for no reason other than to inflate expenses.

EDITED TO ADD: Here are the FCS conferences I'm thinking of:

CAA: 6 all-sports, 5 football-only (5/4 after GSU and URI leave)
MVC: 5 all-sports, 4 football-only
Big South: 6 all-sports, 1 football-only
Patriot: 5 all-sports, 2 football-only
Pioneer: 10 football-only

The Pioneer is the one without an AQ, but AFAIK they are eligible for one and just didn't apply because they're non-scholarship and would get crushed.
You're right FCS should read non-FBS, but the intent is the same. And the non-FBS D1 requirement is 14 sports for a school, not 16. I read that wrong.

I was just reading from the NCAA bylaws for Division 1 (this is superceded for FBS conferences):

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men’s and women’s basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men’s sports, one of which shall be men’s basketball. In addition to men’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men’s team sports. A
minimum of seven members shall sponsor men’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men’s team sports; and
© The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women’s sports, one of which shall be women’s basketball. In addition to women’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women’s team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women’s team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).


Nowhere does it say that the non-FBS conference must be all-sports, just that it include at least 7 teams for both men's and women's basketball with 6 of those 7 playing at least 5 other men's sports (incl. football or 2 other team sports) and 5 other women's sports (2 team sports). It does not specify that any of those other sports must be the same 5.

I'm not going to waste my time with each of those, but the CAA has 12 for men's basketball, of which 8 play at least 6 other men's sports in conference.

The Pioneer League has never been recognized by the NCAA because it is only a football-only conference. The Great West has also never been recognized because of other membership issues.

I didn't want to tell you about the 14 vs 16 for fear we'd go on about it for 5 pages and/or maybe the rule changed again.04-cheers
Naw dude, we're cool. We just got our wires crossed that night.
You are a good contributor, I believe I need to remove a neg rep from you and give you a pos rep!
04-10-2012 09:41 PM
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RUfan03 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 12:54 PM)GreenMississippi Wrote:  The WAC is about to collapse with the loss of Utah St (MWC) and likely LA Tech (Sun Belt) and probably SJSU (MWC), possibly NMSU (Sun Belt). No CAA school will go there.

The Virginia schools is why the CAA didn't meet today. Look for VCU, GMU... and I suspect ODU for various reasons to go to the A-10. JMU will jump to the MAC or Sun Belt before ODU can, but in the meantime will have a FCS home similar to the CAA. William and Mary will go to the Patriot.

CAA/A-10 football will exist in some form as a home for the FCS schools even if CAA all-sports collapses. There are enough non-CAA members in CAA football for them to be unable to punish current members for jumping.

William & Mary to the Patriot. Is that for football only or for all sports? They are a public school. Why would they go to the Patriot where the schools are private with smaller enrollments? I could see Richmond going to the Patriot Conference for football only since they have a similar enrollment as does the Patriot schools. The Patriot Conference just instituted scholarships but I don't think it is the full 65 allowed in FCS.05-nono
04-10-2012 10:48 PM
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hburg Online
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Post: #36
RE: CAA exit fee
I think both Tribe and Richmond would try and get into the Southern Conference.
04-10-2012 11:09 PM
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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Post: #37
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 11:09 PM)jmufan Wrote:  I think both Tribe and Richmond would try and get into the Southern Conference.

Isn't the Patriot allowing schollys now? Plus I don't think the SoCon would add fb only schools. I doubt CAA will die

Worst case
JMU (MAC)
ODU (MAC)
GMU(A10)
VCU(A10)

That leaves 7 all sports and 7 fb members. Liberty, C.Carolina, Stony Brook, UNH(already in for fb), Albany(need to add some schollys).
04-11-2012 04:02 AM
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AtlanticLeague Offline
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Post: #38
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 10:48 PM)RUfan03 Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:54 PM)GreenMississippi Wrote:  The WAC is about to collapse with the loss of Utah St (MWC) and likely LA Tech (Sun Belt) and probably SJSU (MWC), possibly NMSU (Sun Belt). No CAA school will go there.

The Virginia schools is why the CAA didn't meet today. Look for VCU, GMU... and I suspect ODU for various reasons to go to the A-10. JMU will jump to the MAC or Sun Belt before ODU can, but in the meantime will have a FCS home similar to the CAA. William and Mary will go to the Patriot.

CAA/A-10 football will exist in some form as a home for the FCS schools even if CAA all-sports collapses. There are enough non-CAA members in CAA football for them to be unable to punish current members for jumping.

William & Mary to the Patriot. Is that for football only or for all sports? They are a public school. Why would they go to the Patriot where the schools are private with smaller enrollments? I could see Richmond going to the Patriot Conference for football only since they have a similar enrollment as does the Patriot schools. The Patriot Conference just instituted scholarships but I don't think it is the full 65 allowed in FCS.05-nono

Army and Navy are also public (and technically all of their students are on scholarship).
04-11-2012 09:14 AM
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GreenMississippi Offline
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Post: #39
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-11-2012 09:14 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 10:48 PM)RUfan03 Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:54 PM)GreenMississippi Wrote:  William and Mary will go to the Patriot.

William & Mary to the Patriot. Is that for football only or for all sports? They are a public school. Why would they go to the Patriot where the schools are private with smaller enrollments? I could see Richmond going to the Patriot Conference for football only since they have a similar enrollment as does the Patriot schools. The Patriot Conference just instituted scholarships but I don't think it is the full 65 allowed in FCS.05-nono
Army and Navy are also public (and technically all of their students are on scholarship).
William and Mary is something of a good fit for the Patriot despite being public. Very old school and founded private. Enrollment of 7,700 and an endowment of $625 million. The Patriot league enrollment ranges from 2,300 to 6,000 (and endowments up to $1 billion) which is in the ballpark for the league.
04-11-2012 10:17 AM
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AtlanticLeague Offline
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Post: #40
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-11-2012 10:17 AM)GreenMississippi Wrote:  
(04-11-2012 09:14 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 10:48 PM)RUfan03 Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:54 PM)GreenMississippi Wrote:  William and Mary will go to the Patriot.

William & Mary to the Patriot. Is that for football only or for all sports? They are a public school. Why would they go to the Patriot where the schools are private with smaller enrollments? I could see Richmond going to the Patriot Conference for football only since they have a similar enrollment as does the Patriot schools. The Patriot Conference just instituted scholarships but I don't think it is the full 65 allowed in FCS.05-nono
Army and Navy are also public (and technically all of their students are on scholarship).
William and Mary is something of a good fit for the Patriot despite being public. Very old school and founded private. Enrollment of 7,700 and an endowment of $625 million. The Patriot league enrollment ranges from 2,300 to 6,000 (and endowments up to $1 billion) which is in the ballpark for the league.

They only get ~10% of their funding from the state. They may as well be private.
04-11-2012 12:15 PM
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