I rank basketball coaches up there with lawyers and politicians. I could take his salary after 7 years at OU and live off it (and supplement my income with a measly asst coaching job, if things went bad) for a looong time.

(03-19-2012 10:20 AM)kyflash Wrote:  

(03-18-2012 10:49 PM)jbails0881 Wrote:  Groce, if smart, would wait one more year. Think about where else Waters could have went if he would have waited one more year. I know, no Gates then...but that's not the point. Instead of Rutgers, maybe it's one (Arkansas) or two steps better. Groce returns every meaningful player next year. He could be looking at a 4 to 7 seed and then a bigger payday at a better school than Nebraska.

I agree. Far too many coaches make the mistake of taking the first decent payday out of town. They sacrifice their long-term future for short-term gain. With his entire team returning next year, his stock is not going to drop unless he has a disastrous year. He keeps getting linked to the Nebraska job, and while it would be a serious raise, that's a crappy job compared to other places he could be in line for after another year of proving himself.

That statement is false. Do you realize how close he was to this run to the Sweet 16 NOT happening? If they lose to Miami to close the regular season (they don't get a bye in the MAC tourney) or lose in the conference tourney, OU is NIT bound at best. BCS schools don't give millions to guys like that. If OU's chemistry were to fall apart next year or they have an injury and they miss the NCAA tourney, he will not come close to sniffing a million dollar payday.

Nebraska has great facilities and is a football school. Meaning if he gets them respectable he could cash checks there for years. John Groce is history if Nebraska wants him.

(03-19-2012 01:14 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  That statement is false. Do you realize how close he was to this run to the Sweet 16 NOT happening? If they lose to Miami to close the regular season (they don't get a bye in the MAC tourney) or lose in the conference tourney, OU is NIT bound at best. BCS schools don't give millions to guys like that. If OU's chemistry were to fall apart next year or they have an injury and they miss the NCAA tourney, he will not come close to sniffing a million dollar payday.

Nebraska has great facilities and is a football school. Meaning if he gets them respectable he could cash checks there for years. John Groce is history if Nebraska wants him.

Yes, I realize how close they were to not making the tourney. And, no my statement isn't false. Who do BCS teams give millions to?

Guys like:
- Frank Haith, who took Miami to one NCAA (second round) and one NIT in seven years, then landed the job at Missouri.

- Cuonzo Martin: one CIT and one NIT in three years at Missouri State

- Mark Gottfried, who has several NCAA appearances but was considered out of the coaching race once he got fired mid-season at Bama and worked as an ESPN announcer for two years.

- John Pelphrey, who got the Arkansas job after Stan Heath with one NIT and one NCAA in five years at South Alabama and a record that wasn't much above .500.

- It's not BCS, but a historically good Providence program hired Ed Cooley from Fairfield with one NIT and one CIT.

Beyond what he's done at OU, Groce is well-networked given his time under Sendek and Matta. His stock isn't going to drop with one bad year. Anthony Grant and Shaka Smart are good examples of not jumping at the first paychecks that come along. I'm not saying that Groce won't take the job, but he'll never move up from there if he does.

A good parallel to Groce going to Nebraska is Dan Monson leaving Gonzaga after two good years to go to a historically mediocre Minnesota program. Made a bunch of money, got fired. Now he's a step down from Gonzaga at Long Beach State.

(03-19-2012 01:40 PM)kyflash Wrote:  

(03-19-2012 01:14 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  That statement is false. Do you realize how close he was to this run to the Sweet 16 NOT happening? If they lose to Miami to close the regular season (they don't get a bye in the MAC tourney) or lose in the conference tourney, OU is NIT bound at best. BCS schools don't give millions to guys like that. If OU's chemistry were to fall apart next year or they have an injury and they miss the NCAA tourney, he will not come close to sniffing a million dollar payday.

Nebraska has great facilities and is a football school. Meaning if he gets them respectable he could cash checks there for years. John Groce is history if Nebraska wants him.

Yes, I realize how close they were to not making the tourney. And, no my statement isn't false. Who do BCS teams give millions to?

Guys like:
- Frank Haith, who took Miami to one NCAA (second round) and one NIT in seven years, then landed the job at Missouri.

- Cuonzo Martin: one CIT and one NIT in three years at Missouri State

- Mark Gottfried, who has several NCAA appearances but was considered out of the coaching race once he got fired mid-season at Bama and worked as an ESPN announcer for two years.

- John Pelphrey, who got the Arkansas job after Stan Heath with one NIT and one NCAA in five years at South Alabama and a record that wasn't much above .500.

- It's not BCS, but a historically good Providence program hired Ed Cooley from Fairfield with one NIT and one CIT.

Beyond what he's done at OU, Groce is well-networked given his time under Sendek and Matta. His stock isn't going to drop with one bad year. Anthony Grant and Shaka Smart are good examples of not jumping at the first paychecks that come along. I'm not saying that Groce won't take the job, but he'll never move up from there if he does.

A good parallel to Groce going to Nebraska is Dan Monson leaving Gonzaga after two good years to go to a historically mediocre Minnesota program. Made a bunch of money, got fired. Now he's a step down from Gonzaga at Long Beach State.

Monson still got paid at Minnesota. That is the point. You get paid. Haith was at a BCS school already in Miami. Martin and Pelphrey struck while the iron was hot. Which is exactly what you must do unless you are willing to sit around and have people "cool" on you. Shaka Smart is different. VCU got at-large bids to the NCAA tourney the last two years. That, and he went to a Final Four. Does Groce have the possibility to stay on the radar of BCS schools if they don't win the MAC next year by getting an at-large bid and making a run? We both know that answer. Lastly, Providence is BCS, they are in the Big East.

I look at coaches the same way I look at General Managers of large Plants. You have a better shot at a future job if you were a previous General Manager and failed then if you were never one at all. Therefore I don't think he would be taking a lot of risk. Besides if the offer really is for that much money how can you pass it up. We assume Kent did not play up to potential because of the coaching change but what if it was just the make-up of the Seniors without Sherman there keeping them honest. Had Ford hung around and that was the case, he doesn't get the payday from Bradley. And as someone else said if DJ Cooper decides to break an ankle it's all over.

As far as Ohio making it to the Sweet 16, I have two things to say. They did not make it because they are one of the best 16 teams in the country. They made it because the way college basketball picks their champion is one of the worst ways possible (although very exciting and a good money maker). Allowing 3rd place teams from an average at best Conference into the tournament actually makes no sense. Also, basketball should be decided with more than a 1 game series. Anybody can have an off night. However, most sports don't determine champions in the fairest way but instead in the way that makes more money. Ohio has taken advantage of that and more power to them.

Kyflash - maybe read this article and tell me if you think Dan Monson regrets his decision. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...y/10396155

I get why coaches do it, and I know that plenty take the money and run. I'm just saying that it's not always the smartest long-term plan. It's no different from a kid who comes out for the draft early when another year can clearly improve his stock. I guess we'll see.

It depends on what Groce wants. If he wants to get paid, Nebraska is a no-brainer. If he wants to rise to the top of his profession, Nebraska is not an attractive job. Many good men have tried and failed there.

Groce went to OU as a springboard. I'd be stunned if he doesn't take a job offered that (a) pays much more and (b) is in a higher rated conference. Some of you are missing the point that ALL coaches have massive egos. Many of them actually start to slide in their recruiting, I'm certain, because they actually believe they are so good that they can win big even with lesser talent. If he goes to Nebraska I'm sure that he will be certain, in his own mind, that he will make them a top-tier Big Ten program. ... It is great - for the MAC as a whole - that OU has made the Sweet 16, but not so great for Kent State.

(03-19-2012 02:37 PM)JSF Wrote:  It depends on what Groce wants. If he wants to get paid, Nebraska is a no-brainer. If he wants to rise to the top of his profession, Nebraska is not an attractive job. Many good men have tried and failed there.

Danny Nee?