Joined: Apr 2004
I Root For: Syracuse
RE: What will it take for a new 16-team ACC...
(09-25-2011 04:16 PM)Hoquista Wrote: Currently, the ACC has one King (FSU) and two potential Kings (VT, Miami). So, you need more barons or knights with the potential to be barons to get close to the Pac 10.
Which are the barons (VT, Miami was a king - possible King again?) and the knights that can be barons that are current members of the ACC? UNC, GT, Clemson?
Every time I have this discussion on Kings, Barons, and Knights I get in trouble with my picks, so I will steal FrankTheTank's listings and let him take the heat.
He wrote back in June of 2011:
Comparing it to Mandel's original list, I'd make a handful of changes, but I think it's still pretty good when looking at the long-term values of these schools. Here are my thoughts (* = move up from Mandel's list, ** = move down):
Alabama, Florida, Florida State, Miami, Michigan, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Penn State, Texas and USC.
Auburn, Clemson, Colorado, Georgia, Iowa*, LSU, Oregon*, Tennessee**, Texas A&M, UCLA, Virginia Tech, Washington, West Virginia* and Wisconsin.
Arizona*, Arizona State, Arkansas, Boston College, BYU*, Cal, Georgia Tech, Illinois, Kansas*, Kansas State, Louisville, Maryland, Michigan State, Missouri, North Carolina*, N.C. State, Oklahoma State, Ole Miss, Oregon State, Pittsburgh, Purdue, Stanford, Syracuse, South Carolina, TCU*, Texas Tech, Utah* and Virginia.
So, using his system, if the ACC gets ND, it has the three Kings to match a projected Pac-16. Although I think everyone knows the projected West Coast trio is on firmer ground than the projected East Coast trio.
The projected Pac-16 also has three Barons in Colorado, Oregon, and UCLA while the ACC has only VT and Clemson.
So this leads nicely into your discussion...
Quote:Anyway, the way I see it is that you have 4 'realistic' choices available (assuming neither PSU nor ND are available as you state above):
You can rule out schools coming from CUSA, Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12 and SEC. You are essentially down to 4 choices:
UConn, Rutgers, WVu, and Louisville. RU and UConn have the academic credentials and populous states (NJ and CT) that would be nice additions to the ACC TV network. However, the big question is what are their growth potentials in FB in the ACC? UConn right now is 40k in FB and a BB elite. Rutgers is 45k (?) in FB and nothing in BB but their BB might grow in the ACC.
Again, can either of these schools get to 60-65k in FB in the ACC? I just don't see either RU or UConn ever being a knight with a possibility to be a baron in FB.
WVu is a FB Baron and UL is a FB Knight with the potential to be a Baron. WVu BB is next level down and UL is a BB elite. WVu could grow to 80k. UL certainly would grow in the ACC - I think 70-80k.
However, both are not in populous states (Kentucky is also a SEC state) and to the ACC presidents - they don't have the academics to get in.
Can a WVu-Ru combo help here - because UConn won't be a FB Baron and UL doesn't have the academics/population - what about adding the WVu FB Baron to Rutgers population as a compromise thereby adding one solid and one possible potential but have the fallback of they have a large population? You also possibly limit Big 10 expansion further east by taking Rutgers (of course the possible ND-PSU tandem would still be there) - at least geographically I also think the ACC wouldn't add two academically low rated schools but a 'good' plus 'bad' would be more way more palateable?
Just some my thoughts of the top of my head.
If ND is out, I think WVU is critical. That gives the league three Barons in VT, WVU, and Clemson, one of which should develop into a King over time.
In the meantime, I believe that the trio of GT, Pitt, and SU have the coaches in place to possibly move from Knight to Baron - if GT isn't already one. Unlikely all three would in the same conference, but I could see 2 of the 3 moving up.
Others with thoughts on this?