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First Tunisia then Egypt then...
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #11
RE: First Tunisia then Egypt then...
The people in charge have been doing this all along. But the majority of the people are just now catching onto it...
02-18-2011 06:54 PM
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brista21 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: First Tunisia then Egypt then...
(02-18-2011 06:54 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The people in charge have been doing this all along. But the majority of the people are just now catching onto it...

Well I'm not sure that's really been the case at least in such a broad systematic, dramatic way as has been the case in an increasing fashion over the last 30 years or so.

Using the gini coefficient, income inequality started increasing slightly in the early 70s and then accelerated in early 1980s and its gone on unabated ever since. In the 50s and 60s arguably the most prosperous period in American history, the gini coefficient was at or near all-time lows. You want a gini coefficient generally somewhere between .25 and .39 and at last measurement we had reached a .468 which is basically at or near all-time highs for the United States, including much higher than on the eve of the Great Depression in 1929 when it was at roughly .45. Our lowest recorded was back in 1968 when it .386. The closer to 1 you are the more inequally wealth is distributed and obviously the closer to 2 you are the more equally wealth is distributed. Going below .25 is bad and going above .5 is bad but somewhere in the .3x range is basically ideal. Granted there are criticisms of the gini coefficient but I put good faith in it. Its an extremely mathematical thing that I haven't calculated myself in several years since I haven't needed to since I finished school. And lets just say Calculus required.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2011 07:24 PM by brista21.)
02-18-2011 07:23 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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Post: #13
RE: First Tunisia then Egypt then...
Honestly, I think the Gov of Wisconsin is doing the right. Government jobs shouldn't have been allowed to unionized in the first place. I'm paying taxes so kids can get their education. On another issue, people need to understand that states are flat broke and cuts are going to have to be made. Its going to be tough as cuts are going to be made to something that even I might like.
02-19-2011 10:19 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #14
RE: First Tunisia then Egypt then...
(02-18-2011 07:23 PM)brista21 Wrote:  Using the gini coefficient, income inequality started increasing slightly in the early 70s and then accelerated in early 1980s and its gone on unabated ever since. In the 50s and 60s arguably the most prosperous period in American history, the gini coefficient was at or near all-time lows.
In the 1950s and early 1960s, our dollar was still backed by gold. But Richard Nixon took the United States off the gold standard after he was elected in the 1968. This was so we could print more money than we had gold to back it up. This was also the beginning of the runaway inflation we are still experiencing today. We've been borrowing on our future for over 40 years now, and the payment is now coming due...
02-19-2011 10:59 AM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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Post: #15
RE: First Tunisia then Egypt then...
(02-19-2011 10:59 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(02-18-2011 07:23 PM)brista21 Wrote:  Using the gini coefficient, income inequality started increasing slightly in the early 70s and then accelerated in early 1980s and its gone on unabated ever since. In the 50s and 60s arguably the most prosperous period in American history, the gini coefficient was at or near all-time lows.
In the 1950s and early 1960s, our dollar was still backed by gold. But Richard Nixon took the United States off the gold standard after he was elected in the 1968. This was so we could print more money than we had gold to back it up. This was also the beginning of the runaway inflation we are still experiencing today. We've been borrowing on our future for over 40 years now, and the payment is now coming due...

Good point. The Banking Scheme been doing that for Centuries. They can cause Depressions pretty much anytime they want when they don't get their way. Whats going on today is people are either unemployed or underpaid(people taking any job just to survive) while prices of commodities are going up. When the Government doesn't get that same tax revenue that they got a few years ago, while spending even more money. Its just unsustainable and now we face a debt crises. I'm glad a few Governors are taking the necessary steps to fix this debt crisis. People from both sides of the fence need to be prepared for cuts that could effect them.
02-19-2011 11:06 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #16
RE: First Tunisia then Egypt then...
The problem, animus, is that people on either side of the fence believe it's the other side's responsibility to correct the problem...
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2011 11:29 AM by bitcruncher.)
02-19-2011 11:29 AM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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Post: #17
RE: First Tunisia then Egypt then...
(02-19-2011 11:29 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The problem, animus, is that people on either side of the fence believe it's the other side's responsibility to correct the problem...

True, and they b1tch and moan when a budget cut directly effects them. There are never winners in politics, even if the decision is the right one.
02-19-2011 12:11 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #18
RE: First Tunisia then Egypt then...
Whether the decision is 'right' or not usually depends on which side you root for...
02-19-2011 12:33 PM
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brista21 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: First Tunisia then Egypt then...
(02-19-2011 10:19 AM)animus Wrote:  Honestly, I think the Gov of Wisconsin is doing the right. Government jobs shouldn't have been allowed to unionized in the first place. I'm paying taxes so kids can get their education. On another issue, people need to understand that states are flat broke and cuts are going to have to be made. Its going to be tough as cuts are going to be made to something that even I might like.

Allowed to or not allowed to unionize aside. The truth is Wisconsin had a $120 million budget surplus for this year although they had projected small deficits over the next two years. Then they passed a massive expansion of health savings accounts along with two very questionable business tax cuts to create a deficit about the same size as the previous surplus for this year. Now I understand in many places times are tough and we need to get our fiscal houses in order, but on the backs of the middle class isn't how one does it. Some folks complain about unions being more political organs than anything today and that's true but with the way campaigns are currently financed they are the only entities that have the spending capability to compete with the corporate interest groups and thus provide some kind of balancing impact to the agenda.

Bit, as for moving to "fiat currency" that in and of itself has little to do with inflation. Its the fact that we've handed out all sorts of welfare to the well to do and large corporations and been in 3 different bad wars where we not only blew tons of money but lost thousands of American lives in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. (The first Gulf War was a perfectly reasonable conflict to have taken the lead in.) What's caused prices to go up on a fiat currency is the fact that all the commodities a nation produces/acquires (including gold and silver) have to equal out to the amount of money in the fullest measure of the money supply. So if we go off printing an ass ton of money for the last 43 years and counting as we've done commodity prices will go up to match the money supply. I'm not sure returning to a gold or gold & silver backed currency is the answer because guess what you can still print as much as you want and the same thing happens to the precious metal(s) as well. Of course in theory this could limit the contagion of such a thing to economy who's money supply is being overgrown but it causes a tougher more serious problem to deal with. The fixes to end the inflation are much easier proper taxation and some fiscal restraint so as to prevent too fast of M growth. Some money supply growth is natural and needed.
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2011 01:01 PM by brista21.)
02-19-2011 01:00 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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Post: #20
RE: First Tunisia then Egypt then...
(02-19-2011 01:00 PM)brista21 Wrote:  
(02-19-2011 10:19 AM)animus Wrote:  Honestly, I think the Gov of Wisconsin is doing the right. Government jobs shouldn't have been allowed to unionized in the first place. I'm paying taxes so kids can get their education. On another issue, people need to understand that states are flat broke and cuts are going to have to be made. Its going to be tough as cuts are going to be made to something that even I might like.

Allowed to or not allowed to unionize aside. The truth is Wisconsin had a $120 million budget surplus for this year although they had projected small deficits over the next two years. Then they passed a massive expansion of health savings accounts along with two very questionable business tax cuts to create a deficit about the same size as the previous surplus for this year. Now I understand in many places times are tough and we need to get our fiscal houses in order, but on the backs of the middle class isn't how one does it. Some folks complain about unions being more political organs than anything today and that's true but with the way campaigns are currently financed they are the only entities that have the spending capability to compete with the corporate interest groups and thus provide some kind of balancing impact to the agenda.

Bit, as for moving to "fiat currency" that in and of itself has little to do with inflation. Its the fact that we've handed out all sorts of welfare to the well to do and large corporations and been in 3 different bad wars where we not only blew tons of money but lost thousands of American lives in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. (The first Gulf War was a perfectly reasonable conflict to have taken the lead in.) What's caused prices to go up on a fiat currency is the fact that all the commodities a nation produces/acquires (including gold and silver) have to equal out to the amount of money in the fullest measure of the money supply. So if we go off printing an ass ton of money for the last 43 years and counting as we've done commodity prices will go up to match the money supply. I'm not sure returning to a gold or gold & silver backed currency is the answer because guess what you can still print as much as you want and the same thing happens to the precious metal(s) as well. Of course in theory this could limit the contagion of such a thing to economy who's money supply is being overgrown but it causes a tougher more serious problem to deal with. The fixes to end the inflation are much easier proper taxation and some fiscal restraint so as to prevent too fast of M growth. Some money supply growth is natural and needed.

I agree with that Brista to an extent. Asking them to pay a little into their Health Coverage and Pension Funds isn't too much to ask. I agree that the Wisconsin Gov could and should be targeting different area's like the pay of legislators or by forcing legislators drive their own car instead of using tax payer money government vehicles. This is the level that real Education reform needs to be taking place.

I agree that returning back to the Gold Standard is not the answer. As long as the Fed can manipulate the value of the Dollar to Gold/Silver, we'll have the same problems we have now. I also also agree that there has to be natural money growth due to population rise etc. Which in itself causes some form of inflation. Until we're able to audit the FED, and release the findings to the public. We're always going to be in the dark and its not supposed to be that way.

I have 2 major concerns in dealing with our country in the near term future-now to 10 years. The first is a severe debt crises where our debts will default. The second is the Dollar losing its status as the Worlds Reserve Currency.
02-19-2011 01:57 PM
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