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Please tell me why waiting is better than expanding now
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Mickavelli Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Please tell me why waiting is better than expanding now
(06-19-2010 06:20 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  Can you guys against expansion of 2-4 teams right now give me a good enough reason to wait on these teams. Don't tell me they will be there later. That is not a strong enough argument.

Please tell me why we shouldn't add them to let them get a chance to strengthen before negotiations have to start with the next tv contract and bowl alignment.

Please tell me you've got something better than hurting bball programs feelings and disrupting the 8/8 hybrid setup.

I feel like Jack Nicholson here sitting in Cuba....yet have the answers and gumption of Cruise in the court room.

Because americans have a greedy and selfish way of thinking, you get rich quicker by not putting in work. Most Big East followers have a backwards thinking. They believe in snatching a pre-existing BCS school. not going to happen. Grab up and coming schools and build from them.



Another reason, forgetting where you came from. Louisville fans are the worst, they forget they paid their dues in CUSA, but now say its an inferior league.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2010 11:30 PM by Mickavelli.)
06-19-2010 11:29 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Please tell me why waiting is better than expanding now
(06-19-2010 11:29 PM)Mickavelli Wrote:  
(06-19-2010 06:20 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  Can you guys against expansion of 2-4 teams right now give me a good enough reason to wait on these teams. Don't tell me they will be there later. That is not a strong enough argument.

Please tell me why we shouldn't add them to let them get a chance to strengthen before negotiations have to start with the next tv contract and bowl alignment.

Please tell me you've got something better than hurting bball programs feelings and disrupting the 8/8 hybrid setup.

I feel like Jack Nicholson here sitting in Cuba....yet have the answers and gumption of Cruise in the court room.

Because americans have a greedy and selfish way of thinking, you get rich quicker by not putting in work. Most Big East followers have a backwards thinking. They believe in snatching a pre-existing BCS school. not going to happen. Grab up and coming schools and build from them.



Another reason, forgetting where you came from. Louisville fans are the worst, they forget they paid their dues in CUSA, but insist now its a inferior league.

I assume you are a U.S. citizen, for which I have to respond with: you are full of **** if you think the majority of American's don't want to work. This country has a strong entrepreneurial spirit second to none in the world, which is a strong indicator that most American's believe in hard work.

Now if you are a European who happens to be going to Memphis, then your statement is laughable, and you can suck it.
06-19-2010 11:33 PM
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BullsFanInTX Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Please tell me why waiting is better than expanding now
(06-19-2010 07:01 PM)adw30 Wrote:  When the Big East added Louisville, USF, Cincinnati, and UConn neither of those teams except for Louisville were anything special in football. UConn had recently transitioned from I-AA, Cincy was a 5-6/6-5 CUSA team, and USF had a losing record their last seson in Conference USA.

Which was and still is the only losing season in USF history since the inaugural season. Actually USF was coming off a 9-2 season in 2002, before getting the selection in 2003. I keep seeing a fallacy posted by numerous people, which is that USF was chosen for potential, but was a mediocre to poor team. Actually USF was a consistent 8-9 win team other than the 2004 team.
06-19-2010 11:37 PM
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BullsFanInTX Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Please tell me why waiting is better than expanding now
And to answer the question about why not to bring in 2-4 teams, because it would definitely bring down our BCS ratings in the second BCS criteria, which is the average computer ranking of all teams in the conf. Gauranteed to bring it down, unless it was TCU and only TCU you were bringing in.
06-19-2010 11:39 PM
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mullinsworld Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Please tell me why waiting is better than expanding now
(06-19-2010 06:32 PM)miko33 Wrote:  I'll give you a few reasons...

1) Adding the 2 - 4 teams you want to add (from the group of ECU, UCF, Temple, Memphis, Southern Miss, other CUSA teams???) will weaken the BE both literally and perception wise. Any of these teams will be in the bottom portion of the league from the start, and none of these schools would be respected by the other BCS conferences.

2) These schools are being invited on potential only. There is no guarantee that these schools will become the instant successes that UL had for a short period of time, or be able to make some of the big splashes that USF has made on occasion until their Nov collapses. There is probably a realistic statistical analysis that could be completed to determine the likely success of each candidate school. Out of all of them UCF is probably the only realistic team that MAY significantly improve.

3) Another factor to consider is that the face of the conference would be forever changed, and the football power would be gone from the original remaining BE teams into the new BE teams (the CUSA block). I don't think that Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers or WVU would like to see the CUSA invites be able to outvote the established programs on policy.

I think another way is needed to greatly improve the BE. The BE needs to develop the network first, leverage the large DMAs that are within the BB schools regions and the few FB schools that have larger viewing areas. If/when the money rolls in will be when the BE will be able to invite established, quality FB schools to the conference. Until the BEN becomes a reality, staying the course is the best move in my opinion.

Sort of like Louisville, Cincinnati and USF were????? Fail! 03-banghead

All I hear is develop BEN first...you guys don't have time to do that. The B10 isn't done yet and they aren't waiting the 2-3 years you will need to get BEN profitable. 03-banghead
(This post was last modified: 06-20-2010 12:24 AM by mullinsworld.)
06-20-2010 12:23 AM
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mullinsworld Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Please tell me why waiting is better than expanding now
(06-19-2010 06:55 PM)joep1 Wrote:  
(06-19-2010 06:50 PM)Den Wrote:  
(06-19-2010 06:48 PM)joep1 Wrote:  The BE must add teams from its peer conferences - it must take back from the ACC or the like.

What are you willing to bet on that happening? I got 1 cold drink of your choice that says that AIN'T happening...

I don't bet on happening. Saying what needs to happen, doesn't mean that it's going to happen. Nonetheless that is the situation.

That's like saying you are bankrupt with the only solution being winning the lottery. Saying it doesn't mean you are living in the real world. Right now the BE payout is the least of any league. The only way to pay out more is to have more tv and to have more teams. Because guess what in less than 2 years some schools aren't going to be in the BE anymore. I find it hard to believe you guys are playing the piano while the titanic is going down or at least approaching the iceberg.

The only reason you have time to think about it now is because Texas decided to stay in the B12 otherwise you guys are looking at a larger B10, SEC and ACC.
06-20-2010 12:28 AM
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mullinsworld Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Please tell me why waiting is better than expanding now
(06-19-2010 08:30 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-19-2010 06:20 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  Can you guys against expansion of 2-4 teams right now give me a good enough reason to wait on these teams. Don't tell me they will be there later. That is not a strong enough argument.

Please tell me why we shouldn't add them to let them get a chance to strengthen before negotiations have to start with the next tv contract and bowl alignment.

I'd be all in favor of adding 2 or 4 teams, if the teams were say Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Texas A/M, and Missouri. But of course those types of programs - programs that are already BCS-level, aren't available to us.

So if it's a choice between not expanding and adding mouths to feed in the HOPE that by subsidizing them (and that's what the current 8 would be doing, subsidizing them), we'll end up stronger in the long run, well, that sounds like a losing proposition to me. It's more likely to weaken the current 8, who have fought very hard over the past 5 years to claw our way to a measure of BCS respectability on the playing field. But those 8 are right now revenue-deficient compared to other BCS conferences.

In short, i think adding 2-4 weaklings would drag us down before we could lift them up. Pro-expansion types keep saying "well, when we invited USF et al. in 2004, they weren't BCS level but now they have developed in to BCS level programs, so the same would happen with ECU, Memphis, and UCF". But i don't buy that, because the money will be smaller for these new teams than it was for us back in 2004. The Big East was 5 teams expanding to 8, still a small pie. 10-12 reduces the slices significantly.

Plus, the revenue gap between us and the other BCS schools is much larger now than in 2004. Conferences like the Big 10, SEC, and even ACC have taken big leaps forward revenue-wise, while we haven't. I think we need to grow our revenue FIRST, then add more teams.

I guess you would know since USF came in a weakling and is still a weakling. Give Memphis or ECU the BE split and I guarantee you would be our biatches in the very near future. It amazes me that the logical choices are in front of you and you don't see the path out of the bottom rung on the BCS ladder.
06-20-2010 12:34 AM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Please tell me why waiting is better than expanding now
Mullinsworld,

I'm all for adding Memphis and UCF. But i'm not understanding your arguement. People that are bankrupt don't associate themselfs with somebody that is poorer than they are.

Also like you said time is the worst enemy of the Big East. Adding schools isn't going to keep a school in the Big East. When a school like Pitt is only making 5/6/7M in the Big East, adding a school forces Pitt and other schools to make even less money. So if/when the Big 10 or ACC calls Pitt, Pitt can't turn down 14M or 22M. Thats 2X to 3X more money. I'm not saying Pitt is an candidate i'm using Pitt as an example. Cutting our pie gives schools more reason's to leave.
06-20-2010 12:45 AM
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dgrace4cards Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Please tell me why waiting is better than expanding now
(06-19-2010 10:43 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  I actually think you can make a case to expand now or wait. At the cost of body bag games, inviting 1 school now would actually be a wash financially for the FB schools. Why wait? To complete the feasibility and potential analysis on the network. I know UCF is the hot ticket right now. But what if we add them now and then discover that Memphis or ECU would add more money to the contract or we then discover that UCF doesn't pull any new revenue for the network? Then we have hurt ourselves financially, and risk losing members to higher paying conferences. I think the invitation will come at the end of this FB season. By then the analysis will be done to see if it pays to split and add teams or stay together and add teams and how many to add. All of the leading candidates have faults. Perhaps one or more of them move forward this season and separate themselves from the pack.

My question for you is what do we gain from inviting them now and what do we lose by waiting? Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something for the sake of it. I am not seeing a compelling reason to expand other than some posters strong desire to do so.

I've already listed my reasons to do so...and they point towards an overwhelming duh why aren't we doing this now while the waters have calmed, we have time to ramp the schools up for on the field, and for the upcoming tv contracts. We wait, then we will replacing teams that have left, up against the deadline to renegotiate tv deals or launch the network without any ramp up time for the schools to get out there.

And disclaimer, if us fans wanted to get out of dodge we wouldn't be on here pleading to our conference mates for expansion now to become more stable. So what if its a 2 year hit in some revenues, long term it will make more money.
06-20-2010 07:43 AM
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Cubanbull Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Please tell me why waiting is better than expanding now
grace
As i posted in another thread, I was told there is NO objection to expanding by any Big East school, BUT the only sticking point is revenue. If the additions increase the pay outs they will be added , if they dont they wont.
Stability is not a huge point because none of the possible additions will keep any of our schools from being poached by Big Ten, SEC or ACC if they chose to and all the possible additions will still be there. Its all about the money
06-20-2010 08:00 AM
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