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Has there been a worse President in our history?
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Post: #31
 
I don't know about the money sign, it may be a reserved character because it is used to denote a variable in the language that this site is programmed in. If not, it should work like any other quote...click the quote button up top, type it in, then click "close all tags".
06-02-2004 09:28 PM
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Dogger Offline
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Post: #32
 
Quote: don't know about the money sign, it may be a reserved character because it is used to denote a variable in the language that this site is programmed in. If not, it should work like any other quote...click the quote button up top, type it in, then click "close all tags".

Did I do it?????

Yeah baby!!!!!!!!!!!1
06-02-2004 09:34 PM
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Dogger Offline
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Post: #33
 
Hey oddball,

Going to the Toledo junior camp this Sunday at the glassbowl. Amstutz is a class act. Your going to be real good this year. If you get by Minnesota I expect you to be undefeated going into our game. Then well it's going to be painful for ya....
06-02-2004 09:37 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #34
 
Oddball Wrote:
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:You are seriously hurting my opinion of your ability to reason.  Go brush up on the history of President Taft.

George W Bush was the right person to elect.  Had Gore been in office when 9/11 happened, terrorism would have won without even retaliation.  Gore did everything just as Clinton did.  He campaigned on the "just like Clinton" platform.  Well, if he's just like Clinton, he's going to be so angry he'll lob a few missles and claim he has retaliated.  I can hear the terrorists trembling now.
Au contraire, Bush was the most wrong person possible. He's botched everything he's ever touched throughout his entire life, and he's bungling Iraq in ways that Gore (and any other rational human) can barely comprehend. He's disgraced and diminished this country.
If Gore were president, terrorists would still be at large, Afghanistan would be a hotbed for terrorism, Iraq would still be under a dictatorship, we would have retaliated little to none after 9/11, and legislation much worse than the patriot act would have been pushed. Look no further than the DMCA to see how much Clinton cared about civil liberty and personal freedom.
06-02-2004 09:38 PM
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MaumeeRocket Offline
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Post: #35
 
Oddball Wrote:Republicans were up Clinton's @ss over a blowjob...what would their reaction have been if he had invaded another country to get at a group that the current regime was denying was much of a threat even after 9/11?
Kinda like what Clinton had planned for Somalia, and the illegal bombing of Serbia?
06-03-2004 02:33 AM
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joebordenrebel Offline
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Post: #36
 
Quote:If Gore were president, terrorists would still be at large, Afghanistan would be a hotbed for terrorism, Iraq would still be under a dictatorship, we would have retaliated little to none after 9/11, and legislation much worse than the patriot act would have been pushed.  Look no further than the DMCA to see how much Clinton cared about civil liberty and personal freedom.


If Gore had been appointed president, the terrorists would still be alive. Matter of fact, so would all the people who died on 11 September 2001.

If Gore had been appointed president, al Queda, Afghanistan and Saddam Hussein would not be said in the same breath with terrorism.

If Gore had been appointed president, we would have treated any crime as just that--a crime. Not start some hold jihad for oil based on some CEO seven year itch.

But, yeah, Reagan's a close second for gawd-awful prez, but Bush II has squeaked ahead in the whole Iraq debacle to take the lead.

Imperial imbecile, no doubt.
06-03-2004 05:05 AM
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Post: #37
 
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
Oddball Wrote:
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:You are seriously hurting my opinion of your ability to reason.   Go brush up on the history of President Taft.

George W Bush was the right person to elect.  Had Gore been in office when 9/11 happened, terrorism would have won without even retaliation.  Gore did everything just as Clinton did.  He campaigned on the "just like Clinton" platform.  Well, if he's just like Clinton, he's going to be so angry he'll lob a few missles and claim he has retaliated.   I can hear the terrorists trembling now.
Au contraire, Bush was the most wrong person possible. He's botched everything he's ever touched throughout his entire life, and he's bungling Iraq in ways that Gore (and any other rational human) can barely comprehend. He's disgraced and diminished this country.
If Gore were president, terrorists would still be at large, Afghanistan would be a hotbed for terrorism, Iraq would still be under a dictatorship, we would have retaliated little to none after 9/11, and legislation much worse than the patriot act would have been pushed. Look no further than the DMCA to see how much Clinton cared about civil liberty and personal freedom.
If Gore were president, we'd have bin Laden in custody and if it were deemed necessary to invade Iraq, we'd have done it with a coalition. This opinion us based on the fact that Gore is smarter, better educated, more experienced, and doesn't surround himself with nutcases and corporate criminals. Much better than an opinion based on blind hatred rooted in lies every time.

Bush has screwed up everything he's ever touched.
06-03-2004 05:24 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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CrappiesDonatorsBalance of Power Contest
Post: #38
 
KDI,
I won't contend that Roosevelt did many of the things that you point out. But, you make it seem as if he planned the course of events for the entire world. It sounds as if he was Darth Sidious or Dr. Doom. I seriously doubt Roosevelt was strategizing to make the US such a world power. He was probably trying to serve the US' interests...but you give him an awful lot of "credit" for his approach.

Quote:On your other point, I heard ACB (anti-clinton bashing) prior to that man's ascension to the White House. Does that mean Clinton killing Foster is just anti-Clinton hysteria? Does this factoid render all past and present Republican complaints of Clinton untrustworthy?

Why is it that one can detest, hate, bash, burn in effigy Clinton, and now Kerry (maybe even McCain too), but not Bush?

It's not just the rhetoric...how about approving judicial nominations? How about using a filibuster in a way that was never intended? You don't have to like or agree w/ the nominations...that's part of politics. The question for senate approval is, "are they qualified in this field of law?" Bork, Thomas, Estrada, etc all are.

Did Clinton struggle through the same contentions? It doesn't come to my memory that he did. And someone should have balked at a cabinet appointment like Jocelyn Elders...Frankly I'd be so bold as to suggest she cheated to get through medical school (despite it being barely above a correspondence school) and her boards'... Then there was Reno...Richardson...Curious rumors about Brown (where there's smoke, eh Oddball?)

Secondly, the tone of the Bush bashing is different. He's just "stupid"...a "bungler". Very vague. Clinton bashing at least had tangible criticisms.

Maybe it's because I work in a state that's heavily democrat. Many of the criticisms that I personally hear are unfounded and often are based on mis-information.

Quote:Why do critical arguments of Bush administration policies escape consideration, even when some of these criticisms come from the Right?

I'm not saying Bush gets a free ride. I'm just suggesting that saying he's "stupid" is not a useful criticism and is inconsistent w/ the demands for "respecting the office" that were frequently posted during the impeachment. I'm also pointing out that the ABB stuff started before the 2000 election.

As for Bush failing at everything prior to his governorship...I think that's a bit dramatic. Curiously, I have a 1989 issue of Time w/ a story on the president's kid. Doesn't strike me as a total failure.

Nevertheless...didn't Lincoln have a pretty bad streak before he became president?


Quote:What were Johnson's ideologies you speak of? Could it be immigration loosening? How does your current Prez stack up compared to that?

Could it be Civil Rights? Would you prefer to live in a nation that has a state-sanctioned and supported apartheid system?

Could it be war in Southeast Asia to promote democracy in the region? How does your current Prez.'s democracy promotion in the mideast compare in relation to Johnson?

I think you were overall vague in your post.

Interesting analogies KDI...but as they say, the devil is in the details.

"Civil Rights"? Johnson didn't invent the issue. Instead he proclaimed a "Great Society" that led to a welfare system and subsidized housing that in fact developed into economic apartheid. The fact that they are blowing up those housing units to try something else is a testament to their failure. The fact that welfare reform has worked (despite some comical pleas not to let it happen) demonstrates that the system was wretched to begin with.

Immigration? Johnson sided w/ those who demanded that the doors be opened to those who were openly and actively against the foundations of the US. I personally believe that 9/11 is a consequence of this. Bush's gestures have come under criticism from both sides...and those are probably well deserved. But the distinction is that he's opening up the rolls for those who are here and supporting the country.
Will some malcontents come in? Sure, but that's different than the quota system that Johnson allowed to be put in place. (And abuses abound. See the voting scandal from CA, c. 1998)

The war is probably the most intriguing comparison. I'm not an expert on Viet Nam, nor this war. But, while there are certainly similarities, I suspect even you are aware of critical differences. I bet you could elaborate on this, b/c I don't think you really believe they are identical.

Quote:Don't worry about me having to read, I love to read, even if it is something I am likely to disagree with, or even if it is a poor history lesson.

Well, perhaps I should stick to science, since my history is so poor. But, I'm not worried about your reading...it's the time it takes to write all of this. I have to work at least sometimes.
06-03-2004 08:08 AM
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Post: #39
 
Yeah, gawd knows those lazy folks just need to work harder. If three jobs ain't enough, try four or five! Nut up, you bunch of whiners! If you'd stop spending all your food stamps on beer and cigarettes and Cadillac payments, maybe you could make something of yourself. :roflol:

Published on Friday, September 5, 2003 by the New York Times
100,000 Could Lose Housing Subsidies, Advocates Warn
by David Firestone

WASHINGTON, Sept. 4 — More than 100,000 low-income families could lose their rent subsidies next year under a spending bill passed today by a Senate committee and recently approved by the House, housing advocates said.

The advocates cited a new study by the Congressional Budget Office.

If the nonpartisan budget office's forecast of housing costs next year proves accurate, it could be the first time in the 30-year history of the federal housing voucher program that Congress has failed to renew all existing vouchers. Under the program, known as Section 8, the vouchers pay the difference between the market rent of an apartment and 30 percent of a household's income.

The program subsidizes more than two million families who generally earn less than $20,000 a year.

The House appropriated $11.7 billion for the vouchers this year. That would be enough to provide for 1.78 million vouchers under the House estimate of the average cost of a voucher, $6,575. But the budget office last week set a higher figure, $7,068, taking into account housing costs around the country. At that rate, the same sum of money would mean 114,000 fewer vouchers in the coming year. Because the law sets the voucher formula, any shortfall would result in fewer vouchers rather than small reductions in each voucher.

The Senate Appropriations Committee voted today to spend $150 million less on Section 8 than the House. But the panel included instructions to the administration to return to Congress with a supplementary spending request if the amount is inadequate to renew all vouchers.

Republican appropriators in the House say they provided a 7 percent increase in spending for the vouchers this year, considerably more than the 4 percent that the Bush administration recommended. Representative James T. Walsh, the New York Republican who is chairman of the subcommittee that controls spending on housing, said he believed that amount would be adequate to renew all vouchers, though he had not seen the new figures from the budget office.

An assistant housing secretary Michael Liu, whose office administers Section 8, said the administration believed that no one would lose a voucher based on the appropriation and questioned the forecast by the budget office.

"At the present time," Mr. Liu said, "we believe what has been allocated will be sufficient to take care of the number of vouchers we have. Frankly, we're not sure what C.B.O. based its estimates on."

Housing advocates said rapidly rising costs combined with high unemployment had pushed up the costs of subsidies beyond the increase approved by the House. The cost of a voucher increases when rents go up and income levels decrease.

"The appropriations committees are operating under extremely narrow confines of what they can do," said Sheila Crowley, president of the National Low Income Housing Coalition in Washington. "Now they're not even spending enough money to sustain the number of people who currently pay for housing through the voucher program. It's an unprecedented break in the commitment made when the program was founded in 1974."

To ensure that all vouchers were paid for, Congress has in previous years often appropriated more money than necessary. This year, Congress changed the financing to focus on the target of vouchers more closely. The new formula requires an extremely accurate prediction of costs to keep all vouchers renewed.

Barbara Sard, director of housing policy at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a liberal research group in Washington that has studied Section 8 appropriations, said Congressional estimates for low-income housing had not kept pace with rents and other costs.

"The House relied on old data to predict what vouchers would cost," Ms. Sard said. "But this funding is for the future, and there are a lot of reasons why costs have dramatically increased recently."

The Congressional Budget Office predicted that the cost of a voucher would increase by more than 5 percent, and that there would be less turnover of families who use the vouchers than the Congressional committees had assumed. In difficult economic times, families tend to rely more heavily on subsidies, and there are fewer instances of families earning too much to qualify for vouchers. Overall, the office said, the cost of renewing all vouchers will be $900 million more than the House allocated.

Some large urban housing authorities like the one in New York City have long waiting lists for Section 8 vouchers. Others have far more turnover. New York issues more than 110,000 vouchers a year, with nearly 150,000 families on the waiting list.

Mr. Walsh said the tax cuts were not linked to the housing bill.

"We provided a 7 percent increase, which is more than the president requested," he said. "I don't know how anyone can say that's related to the tax cuts."

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

(what's clear is that we need more bombs. . .and homeless people!)
06-03-2004 01:13 PM
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GrayBeard Offline
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Post: #40
 
joebordenrebel Wrote:If Gore had been appointed president, the terrorists would still be alive. Matter of fact, so would all the people who died on 11 September 2001.
:stupid: WOW, how do you figure?
06-03-2004 01:36 PM
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