(09-25-2011 11:05 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  still deliosnal in different conf
rutgers ends up in B-10
conn & temple in ACC

What exactly does deliosnal mean?

(09-25-2011 11:05 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  still deliosnal in different conf
rutgers ends up in B-10
conn & temple in ACC

Delusional? UConn isn't getting in the ACC, Boston College wants no part of them.

(09-26-2011 12:42 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(09-25-2011 11:05 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  still deliosnal in different conf
rutgers ends up in B-10
conn & temple in ACC

Delusional? UConn isn't getting in the ACC, Boston College wants no part of them.

Maybe they don't but if the ACC is not going to wait for ND and not willing to compromise their academics, who else do they bring in?

(09-25-2011 11:05 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  still deliosnal in different conf
rutgers ends up in B-10
conn & temple in ACC

If the ACC is willing to compromise their academics for exansion, they are going to take WVu over Temple - you can take that to the bank.

(09-25-2011 06:40 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(09-25-2011 06:35 PM)Joey_Niklas Wrote:  I'd put Boise St. TCU, and Utah in the Baron catagory and put Tennessee, Colorado, UCLA, and Iowa in the Knight ranks. Also at what point does PSU drop from the ranks of kings. Out of the 3(if WVU was to join) I'd say Virginia Tech has the greatest chance of becoming a king.

Hail Joey!

I didn't want to get into too much debate about who should be ranked in what category.

One of the reasons why I am using FTT's list is that he was basing his rankings on the perceived "value" of each of the programs to TV.

Even though ND, PSU, FSU, and Miami have not performed up to King level on the field, TV does appear to still want to show their games.

So, if we stick to that concept, I think we can see where the ACC might try and go in terms of #15 and #16 while also recognizing other factors will be at play such as academics. At least, I hope we can.

Cheers,
Neil

My question is if the ACC considers expanding with RU and UConn soon (as you hint at elsewhere and not waiting for ND?), what do you think that means for long term growth for the ACC in the Northeast?

I mean, if we're talking 10 years before ND does decide to join a conference and at that time the Domers would have to goto the B1G, does that give the ACC enough time with those programs (RU, UConn and to a lesser extent Pitt and SU) to gain enough traction in the NE to at least be somewhat close to what the Big 10 would potentially offer (PSU, ND, OSU, Michigan) to NE viewers?

If there's little hope of gaining NE viewers compared to the B1G, then wouldn't the best bet be WVu-RU even if they have to compromise their academics?

(09-26-2011 03:10 AM)Hoquista Wrote:  

(09-25-2011 06:40 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(09-25-2011 06:35 PM)Joey_Niklas Wrote:  I'd put Boise St. TCU, and Utah in the Baron catagory and put Tennessee, Colorado, UCLA, and Iowa in the Knight ranks. Also at what point does PSU drop from the ranks of kings. Out of the 3(if WVU was to join) I'd say Virginia Tech has the greatest chance of becoming a king.

Hail Joey!

I didn't want to get into too much debate about who should be ranked in what category.

One of the reasons why I am using FTT's list is that he was basing his rankings on the perceived "value" of each of the programs to TV.

Even though ND, PSU, FSU, and Miami have not performed up to King level on the field, TV does appear to still want to show their games.

So, if we stick to that concept, I think we can see where the ACC might try and go in terms of #15 and #16 while also recognizing other factors will be at play such as academics. At least, I hope we can.

Cheers,
Neil

My question is if the ACC considers expanding with RU and UConn soon (as you hint at elsewhere and not waiting for ND?), what do you think that means for long term growth for the ACC in the Northeast?

I mean, if we're talking 10 years before ND does decide to join a conference and at that time the Domers would have to goto the B1G, does that give the ACC enough time with those programs (RU, UConn and to a lesser extent Pitt and SU) to gain enough traction in the NE to at least be somewhat close to what the Big 10 would potentially offer (PSU, ND, OSU, Michigan) to NE viewers?

If there's little hope of gaining NE viewers compared to the B1G, then wouldn't the best bet be WVu-RU even if they have to compromise their academics?

NO.
UConn and Rutgers are not strong enough to develop, and expand their attendance by 50% (which is where they would have to be to really gain any traction).

http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2011/06...nitor.aspx

Here is a link to an article about the areas in the country that are recovering from the recession best versus those that are worsening.

Seems like the northeast and Great Lakes areas are making a comeback thanks to the auto industry and the clean energy industry.

Of the 100 largest metro areas looked at the following ACC areas are amongst the Top 20 in terms of overall recovery performance.

Pittsburgh
Syracuse/Rochester/Buffalo/Albany
Boston
DC

Amongst the next 20 down:

Baltimore
Raleigh
Richmond, VA
Worcester, MA

Not sure if any of this has any relevance in terms of expansion, but it's nice to see that both the Pittsburgh area and Upstate New York are doing well in terms of economic recovery.

Cheers,
Neil

Pittsburgh is doing well because of the Natural Gas Industry. The area wasn't really phased by the recession, and actually seen growth. I work for a company that goes in and cleans up the mess those dirty frackers make.

(09-26-2011 10:53 PM)Joey_Niklas Wrote:  Pittsburgh is doing well because of the Natural Gas Industry. The area wasn't really phased by the recession, and actually seen growth. I work for a company that goes in and cleans up the mess those dirty frackers make.

New York has a moratorium on any fracking that combines hydraulic fracturing with horizontal drilling and the injection of millions of gallons of chemically treated water underground. The moratorium was suppose to end in May of this year, but it was extended for "public comments" on the issue.

But a recent poll says New Yorkers are in favor of more drilling and of Casinos in the state.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/poll_...&FEEDNAME=

Might stimulate the economy even more now in these times, but at what future cost?

Cheers,
Neil

(09-26-2011 10:53 PM)Joey_Niklas Wrote:  Pittsburgh is doing well because of the Natural Gas Industry. The area wasn't really phased by the recession, and actually seen growth. I work for a company that goes in and cleans up the mess those dirty frackers make.

Around Elmira, New York natural gas drilling is terrible! So many people from Texas, Arkansas, and Oklahoma are here now. I wouldn't have a problem with it, if you know the people who actually lived here got the jobs. Instead People drive all the way here from Texas, Arkansas, and Oklahoma. They're terrible at driving and have no clue where they are going. There are so many near accidents because of those people! In fact some poor 16 year old kid got hit riding his bike, by one of the gas workers. He thought it would be a smart idea to drive drunk.

I'm slightly confused about what it is we are talking about in this thread.

I am trying to follow the argument about "control" of a given territory. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems as though the argument is about whether the ACC expanding by taking Rutgers and UConn would ever be able to challenge for control of the northeast (NE) market against a B1G including ND. Is this correct?

Now, if my assessment was correct then I am curious as to what attendance has to do with "control" of the market/territory. It seems to me that it is television ratings which are really driving realignment. That being said, it is nice to have a team who fills the stadium but that does not offer incentive to a network. Thus, a better measure of whether a conference can control a territory would be their respective team's television ratings.

I have a chart on this that I will post separately. I wish that it included information about teams who are currently in consideration rather than three teams who have already been taken by the B1G and ACC, however, I think it's at least a decent enough discussion point for the topic at hand.

Are the TV ratings the same, higher, lower in years after or before this?
What time of the day were the games played (afternoon, primetime ABC, etc)
Who were the opponents?
What were the records for the teams involved at the time they played and what were the final records?

(09-27-2011 11:39 AM)ndlutz Wrote:  I'm slightly confused about what it is we are talking about in this thread.

I am trying to follow the argument about "control" of a given territory. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems as though the argument is about whether the ACC expanding by taking Rutgers and UConn would ever be able to challenge for control of the northeast (NE) market against a B1G including ND. Is this correct?

That is my contention. If ND and PSU were in the B1G, would games involving those teams (say PSU vs. Wisconsin or ND vs. Iowa) be favored in 'NE' TV markets like NYC, Philly, Boston, DC over an ACC game involving say Miami vs. Maryland or FSU versus Pitt.

(09-27-2011 11:39 AM)ndlutz Wrote:  Now, if my assessment was correct then I am curious as to what attendance has to do with "control" of the market/territory. It seems to me that it is television ratings which are really driving realignment. That being said, it is nice to have a team who fills the stadium but that does not offer incentive to a network. Thus, a better measure of whether a conference can control a territory would be their respective team's television ratings.

I have a chart on this that I will post separately. I wish that it included information about teams who are currently in consideration rather than three teams who have already been taken by the B1G and ACC, however, I think it's at least a decent enough discussion point for the topic at hand.

TV rating in new markets and/or brands that have national names. For example, while everyone knows that Nebraska has a small local market (Nebraska is about 1.8 million people), they have a national brand.

In addition, TV ratings can fluctuate from year to year so it is better to have this information over multiple years - including when the university in question goes through a down cycle - to truly know what potential value a school brings.

I agree in a sense that attendance in and of itself does not really determine the true value of a school but it certainly does help to know because attendance is associated with merchandise sales, athletic budget, etc.

The number presented as the TV rating above is the average rating of nationally televised games from the 2009 season. This obviously does not speak to who the opponents were, what time the game was played, or anything else. It is simply the sheer average of the ratings. The number in parentheses is the number of nationally televised games that year.

(09-28-2011 01:43 PM)ndlutz Wrote:  The number presented as the TV rating above is the average rating of nationally televised games from the 2009 season. This obviously does not speak to who the opponents were, what time the game was played, or anything else. It is simply the sheer average of the ratings. The number in parentheses is the number of nationally televised games that year.

The only point I was trying to make (and probably failed miserably) is that Pitt had great TV numbers in 2009 but that was probably a function of the great year they had. Two games were on ABC (including the ND night game) and the final game against Cincy was the lone game at that time (?) and for the BE championship.

On the other hand, SU was going through one of its worst FB cycles ever.

Would Pitt's TV number have been as bad as SUs if Pitt would have gone through that down cycle? What about if Pitt slips and is 6-6 on an annual basis?

It's better to have these TV numbers over multiple seasons to even out these parameters which I am sure the TV networks have.


Anyway, I am definitely going to be interested in seeing the new ACC TV map for ABC regionally televised games when Pitt and SU enter the league. I will want to find out how many times ACC games will be shown in Pittsburgh (and upstate NY and New England) versus a Big 10 game.