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RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - goodknightfl - 02-13-2018 05:17 PM
The younger generations don't go to live events, they live on and through their phones. as those 55 and older die so will the crowd size. That is why the NFL has been shrinking stadium size when they rebuild
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - Love and Honor - 02-13-2018 07:57 PM
(02-13-2018 05:17 PM)goodknightfl Wrote: The younger generations don't go to live events, they live on and through their phones. as those 55 and older die so will the crowd size. That is why the NFL has been shrinking stadium size when they rebuild
I don't necessarily think you're wrong, but I think it's also a reflection of how the current structure of football and other live sports sold their soul to TV and created an in-game atmosphere that's pushes fans away. Millennials and younger Americans in general aren't skipping out on live concerts or bars/parties because you miss out on the experience if you just listen to Spotify or drink at home; on the flip side they're skipping out on live TV since you can just watch it later on Hulu, or stay away from live sports because constant communication makes going to a game to see the result in-person less meaningful as opposed to an era when your only two choices were to go to the game or watch a badly produced broadcast (if it was on TV at all). Nowadays a game can easily turn into a 4+ hour affair when you factor in getting there and back; if you shortened the game to 2 hours 30 minutes with limited interruptions it suddenly becomes less of a hassle for a more interesting experience.
In general I don't doubt these trends at all, but one must also keep in mind that as long as teams are self-reporting attendance some of these numbers are kinda sketchy. A sample size of 130 or so is enough to gauge where it's going, but there isn't a great baseline of comparison as long as we're staying away from butts-in-the-seats due to the stupid NCAA attendance rule.
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - Nittany_Bearcat - 02-13-2018 08:06 PM
FWIW, the attendance declines are cross-division. FBS is NOT unique:
FCS --- from 8357 to 8223 (-1.6%)
D2 --- from 3459 to 3273 (-5.4%)
D3 --- from 1954 to 1873 (-4.1%)
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2017.pdf
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - ColKurtz - 02-13-2018 08:17 PM
There has been a "playoff", in some form or another, since the BCA in 1992. I don't buy that going from a 2-team playoff to a 4-team has much to do with it.
I do think that there was an explosion of bowls starting in the 90's, and a lot of teams that had been absent from them for years started getting regular bids which generated excitement in the fanbases. That has peaked, and even mid-upper tier bowls aren't the attraction they were even 5 years ago. On top of that, 55" HD TVs are no longer a luxury item, so it's really a better experience for many to watch at home.
Moreover price is the main factor. My buddies and I went to every bowl game in college, AND then took side trips after our game to New Orleans to spend New Years 3 of those years (2 more years we were in the Sugar Bowl itself). That on summer savings, part-time jobs, and credit cards - no parental help. Who the hell could do that now? It's just too damn expensive.
College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - arkstfan - 02-13-2018 08:26 PM
Games are longer with long breaks. Games are pushing 3:30 while NBA clocks in about an hour less and soccer about 90 minutes less.
I travel less because it’s no longer travel vs radio, it’s travel vs TV. When I travel I know it will mean sitting on a bleacher instead of chair back and facing the sun.
Prices are up. Even for G5 fans season tickets and parking mostly have increased faster than wages.
More games end up on weeknights and if you are a P5 fan do you need at hotel for Friday night for an 11:30 kick or Saturday night for a 7pm kick? Usually you have two weeks to find out.
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RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - MWC Tex - 02-13-2018 08:33 PM
At first I thought it was like a 10% or more drop. But a 3.5% drop isn't as significant. And trying to compare previous years with the overall FBS is faulty since there have been new FBS teams that don't pull hardly much attendance and that is a factor in the overall scheme of things.
If the bottom G5 would get their attendance up, that overall decline would be nullified most likely. Losing Idaho to FCS will help, others who hard have 5k in the stands are the culprits of pulling the average down.
The MAC always hurts the attendance with weekday games along with some of the MW with the late night games. Getting the other dredges of the G5 to increase their attendance will help.....if they can't then they don't belong to FBS and need to drop to FCS.
Soon there will be others following Idaho's move to FCS. While the other university presidents have watched and commended Idaho's move, they are to scare (as of now) to try to move down. However, soon the economics and anemic football attendance at the lower schools will force the issue regardless as athletic budgets keep getting deeper in the red and the students are tired of paying high fees for FBS football.
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - Tom in Lazybrook - 02-13-2018 09:05 PM
(02-13-2018 02:38 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: Major-college football experienced its largest per-game attendance drop in 34 years and second-largest ever, according to recently released NCAA figures.
Attendance among the 129 Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) teams in 2017 was down an average of 1,409 fans per game from 2016. That marked the largest drop since 1983 when average attendance declined 1,527 fans per game from 1982.
The 2017 FBS average of 42,203 fans per game is the lowest since 1997.
That average attendance drop marked the second-sharpest decline since the NCAA began keeping track of college football attendance in 1948. For the first time in history, average attendance declined nationally for four consecutive seasons.
More at link: https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-heads-in-wrong-direction-with-largest-attendance-drop-in-34-years/
I wonder what cost has to do with it.
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - quo vadis - 02-13-2018 09:49 PM
(02-13-2018 03:01 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: So, an inherently flawed playoff structure only rewards four teams, and, basically, only four teams from major conferences.
There is no incentive to go to games if you have half of FBS basically kept at bay from the championship, and, if you are a major, the season may end after just one loss, but definitely two.
Problem with this theory is the CFP gives the G5 schools more access and exposure than any previous system.
Your snipped section on kickoff times resonated more.
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - esayem - 02-13-2018 11:18 PM
(02-13-2018 04:21 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:(02-13-2018 04:17 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:(02-13-2018 03:01 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: So, an inherently flawed playoff structure only rewards four teams, and, basically, only four teams from major conferences.
There is no incentive to go to games if you have half of FBS basically kept at bay from the championship, and, if you are a major, the season may end after just one loss, but definitely two.
Yeah, no crap attendance is dropping.
I'm going to go with this. There are about 10-15 schools that have real shot at winning a NC.
That's always been the case, though.
Nah, nah, nah, not so fast. There are at least 10-15 schools that shouldn't even be FBS. The 90's had it right: about 18-20 bowls and a little over 100 teams.
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - esayem - 02-13-2018 11:20 PM
(02-13-2018 05:05 PM)XLance Wrote:(02-13-2018 04:51 PM)MU88 Wrote: All sports are having attendance issues. New stadiums and arenas are being built smaller. Remodels involve decreasing seating capacity. Lots of reasons. Too many sports. Too pricey. Technological improvements. Fans disconnect with teams/athletes. But, I think the number one reason is the changes in the interests of youth. My kids play all sorts of sports, but they don't watch any. The boy may watch Lebron. The girl may watch a bit of the Olympics, volleyball or figure skating. But, unless I drag them to a game, they would never go. I would expect attendance to continue to drop and our kids grow up.
I started taking my kids when they were four and two (their Grandmother was appreciative too). They went to every game with us through high school.
Now I buy tickets for my daughter and her family....I get to see my Grandchildren and watch Carolina football all on the same day...it's like being in the Southern part of Heaven...which it is.
Except Fedora is there and not Mack Brown?
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - ChrisLords - 02-14-2018 02:13 AM
(02-13-2018 11:20 PM)esayem Wrote:(02-13-2018 05:05 PM)XLance Wrote:(02-13-2018 04:51 PM)MU88 Wrote: All sports are having attendance issues. New stadiums and arenas are being built smaller. Remodels involve decreasing seating capacity. Lots of reasons. Too many sports. Too pricey. Technological improvements. Fans disconnect with teams/athletes. But, I think the number one reason is the changes in the interests of youth. My kids play all sorts of sports, but they don't watch any. The boy may watch Lebron. The girl may watch a bit of the Olympics, volleyball or figure skating. But, unless I drag them to a game, they would never go. I would expect attendance to continue to drop and our kids grow up.
I started taking my kids when they were four and two (their Grandmother was appreciative too). They went to every game with us through high school.
Now I buy tickets for my daughter and her family....I get to see my Grandchildren and watch Carolina football all on the same day...it's like being in the Southern part of Heaven...which it is.
Except Fedora is there and not Mack Brown?
You could get Mack Brown if you wanted. I'm sure he'd love to get back into coaching at the P5 level.
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - The Cutter of Bish - 02-14-2018 05:58 AM
(02-13-2018 09:49 PM)quo vadis Wrote:(02-13-2018 03:01 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: So, an inherently flawed playoff structure only rewards four teams, and, basically, only four teams from major conferences.
There is no incentive to go to games if you have half of FBS basically kept at bay from the championship, and, if you are a major, the season may end after just one loss, but definitely two.
Problem with this theory is the CFP gives the G5 schools more access and exposure than any previous system.
Your snipped section on kickoff times resonated more.
You're not wrong. I think it's perception. The marketing hasn't exactly helped. The BCS bowls were a cluster that included the championship; these were the favored/legacy bowls. The playoff is about four teams. The NY6 may be every non-title BCS bowl...they aren't marketed that way.
With respect to G5 access, it's still just one spot. Only now, yes, it's guaranteed, but, again, it's this also-ran NY6 "prize." I'd counter that the committee is kind of like protection to the playoff that the BCS didn't have repelling non-majors from those games. Utah and Boise could have been snubbed a BCS title appearance, but not a BCS game. The committee can definitely determine access by rank, practically picking and choosing who goes where.
The whole thing is convoluted, and, I'd wager there's fatigue and apathy over that, too. CFB doesn't feel genuine the way other sports are. Someone referenced professional wrestling in another post or thread...yeah, that's not an operation CFB should want to be near. Lecture us or bowl us over with stats all one wants on the major/non-major schism in college football, and its traditions, legacies, "business practices," etc.; still looks and feels a bit rigged and inauthentic.
And from a sheer competitive standpoint, nothing looks right about undefeated teams sitting out of any playoff.
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - Huskypride - 02-14-2018 08:00 AM
i think a lot more people just prefer to watch it on tv now.
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - solohawks - 02-14-2018 08:48 AM
(02-13-2018 05:17 PM)goodknightfl Wrote: The younger generations don't go to live events, they live on and through their phones. as those 55 and older die so will the crowd size. That is why the NFL has been shrinking stadium size when they rebuild
I don't necessarily disagree with you that the younger generation doesn't go to live events, but the question is why?
Earlier in this thread it was stated that the total cost of attendance at a Rutgers game was between $300 to $400. That is a car payment for many young people.
So while it is easy to surmise that young people are not going games, I believe the best answer is yes because they are too expensive. This does not even factor in the alternative methods of TV which are easier and better if you are more interested in watching the game and less in the communal experience
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - orangefan - 02-14-2018 09:55 AM
Not certain if anyone has said this, but the constant shifting of kickoff times to serve TV has to be hurting attendance. At one time, you could count on a Saturday afternoon game time that would allow time for tailgating beforehand and plenty of drive time to get home afterwards. Now, you don't know until two weeks ahead whether a game is at noon or 8 pm. It makes it difficult to plan attending well in advance if you have to travel to get there.
Price is definitely a factor as well. However, some of that is intentional. In the old days, teams, pro and college, added more and more seats to increase revenues. Today, they raise ticket prices (including focusing on adding premium seats and premium amenities to go with the higher prices). This will chase away the marginal fan who may have attended a game at $15 at ticket, but won't at $50. However, if done carefully, should increase total revenue.
The decline in total attendance, therefore, may not be a significant concern in isolation. A more significant concern would be any demographic shift that may be occurring, i.e., loss of younger fans. If kids and students are not attending, where will attendance and viewership be in the future? I read an interesting article about the Cubs several years ago that suggest their showing of afternoon games on free TV built a huge following among younger fans that they still benefit from today. Engaging younger fans may not maximize revenues today, but it is key to ensuring the future success of any sport.
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - loki_the_bubba - 02-14-2018 09:59 AM
(02-14-2018 09:55 AM)orangefan Wrote: Not certain if anyone has said this, but the constant shifting of kickoff times to serve TV has to be hurting attendance. At one time, you could count on a Saturday afternoon game time that would allow time for tailgating beforehand and plenty of drive time to get home afterwards. Now, you don't know until two weeks ahead whether a game is at noon or 8 pm. It makes it difficult to plan attending well in advance if you have to travel to get there.
Price is definitely a factor as well. However, some of that is intentional. In the old days, teams, pro and college, added more and more seats to increase revenues. Today, they raise ticket prices (including focusing on adding premium seats and premium amenities to go with the higher prices). This will chase away the marginal fan who may have attended a game at $15 at ticket, but won't at $50. However, if done carefully, should increase total revenue.
The decline in total attendance, therefore, may not be a significant concern in isolation. A more significant concern would be any demographic shift that may be occurring, i.e., loss of younger fans. If kids and students are not attending, where will attendance and viewership be in the future? I read an interesting article about the Cubs several years ago that suggest their showing of afternoon games on free TV built a huge following among younger fans that they still benefit from today. Engaging younger fans may not maximize revenues today, but it is key to ensuring the future success of any sport.
The tyranny of TV kickoff times is also killing early season attendance down here. Imagine a noon game in late August or early September in Houston. It's brutal. When I went up to aTm for one a couple of years ago they were pulling people out on stretchers.
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - bullet - 02-14-2018 10:02 AM
(02-13-2018 05:17 PM)goodknightfl Wrote: The younger generations don't go to live events, they live on and through their phones. as those 55 and older die so will the crowd size. That is why the NFL has been shrinking stadium size when they rebuildNo, they shrink stadium size because they can raise ticket prices. They want to reduce supply.
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - The Cutter of Bish - 02-14-2018 10:09 AM
(02-14-2018 09:59 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:(02-14-2018 09:55 AM)orangefan Wrote: Not certain if anyone has said this, but the constant shifting of kickoff times to serve TV has to be hurting attendance. At one time, you could count on a Saturday afternoon game time that would allow time for tailgating beforehand and plenty of drive time to get home afterwards. Now, you don't know until two weeks ahead whether a game is at noon or 8 pm. It makes it difficult to plan attending well in advance if you have to travel to get there.
Price is definitely a factor as well. However, some of that is intentional. In the old days, teams, pro and college, added more and more seats to increase revenues. Today, they raise ticket prices (including focusing on adding premium seats and premium amenities to go with the higher prices). This will chase away the marginal fan who may have attended a game at $15 at ticket, but won't at $50. However, if done carefully, should increase total revenue.
The decline in total attendance, therefore, may not be a significant concern in isolation. A more significant concern would be any demographic shift that may be occurring, i.e., loss of younger fans. If kids and students are not attending, where will attendance and viewership be in the future? I read an interesting article about the Cubs several years ago that suggest their showing of afternoon games on free TV built a huge following among younger fans that they still benefit from today. Engaging younger fans may not maximize revenues today, but it is key to ensuring the future success of any sport.
The tyranny of TV kickoff times is also killing early season attendance down here. Imagine a noon game in late August or early September in Houston. It's brutal. When I went up to aTm for one a couple of years ago they were pulling people out on stretchers.
Conversely, put games in the northeast and midwest on at 3:30 or 8 consistently from mid-October on. Yeah, **** that.
There is a big drop between the quality of the pro and college venues. "Just because the pro's do it" doesn't fly when you're on bleachers, in the cold, with terrible sightlines, or don't have the posh amenities you'll find at a pro game. It makes a compelling case to stay in the parking lot and keep on tailgating.
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - billybobby777 - 02-14-2018 11:24 AM
The reasons are: Television
1.TV—why watch the game at the game when you can watch it on tv?
2. TV—have you seen how nice the tv’s are now?
3. TV—have you seen how cheap the tv’s are now?
4. TV—have you seen the times of day/night that the games are being forced to start at lately? Average families can’t go to a college football game late Sat night.
5. TV—have you seen the days of the week the games are being played on now? Every MAC game after September being played on Tuesday and Wednesday nights? Stupid.
Almost every college team has Thursday and Friday night games now because of, drumroll please....you guessed it! TV!
The chasing of television $ from ESPN has damn near ruined college football. It’ll get worse. Much worse.
RE: College Football has largest attendance drop in 34 years - Attackcoog - 02-14-2018 11:50 AM
(02-14-2018 11:24 AM)billybobby777 Wrote: The reasons are: Television
1.TV—why watch the game at the game when you can watch it on tv?
2. TV—have you seen how nice the tv’s are now?
3. TV—have you seen how cheap the tv’s are now?
4. TV—have you seen the times of day/night that the games are being forced to start at lately? Average families can’t go to a college football game late Sat night.
5. TV—have you seen the days of the week the games are being played on now? Every MAC game after September being played on Tuesday and Wednesday nights? Stupid.
Almost every college team has Thursday and Friday night games now because of, drumroll please....you guessed it! TV!
The chasing of television $ from ESPN has damn near ruined college football. It’ll get worse. Much worse.
We had to play a game this year in September at 11am. Few things are more miserable than sitting in the Houston sun and humidity on a balmy September afternoon. HD TV with free beer in an air conditioned living room is going to sound like a solid alternative to many fans. It is what it is. Start times make a huge difference. Put that same game at 7pm and you'll have a rollicking good time in a full stadium on comfortable summer like night. That rollicking nightime in stadium experience can offer something you cant find in your living room. You have to give the fans reasons to show up.